DaveB3D 3dfx and nVidia

[PliotronX]

Can't we all just get along?

 

[Shagga]

<< STOP!...already!!! >>



Time to start posting NEWS ppl. Hey I base 99% of all my decisions on what Hardware to purchase next from both AnandTech and YOU guyz. Get back to what ya good at.

Enough already...

 

[Pete]

superbaby, and everyone else who thinks the same way: Dave is not the sole employee of 3dfx. He is not responsible for everything they do. He did not design the features or the architecture for the V5 or Rampage or Fear. He did not make the decision to buy their own fab, to go SLI, to concentrate on FSAA, to hold the product back to ensure maximum compatibility and thus much fewer support issues (and hence less support expense). He just started there.

That said, he is posting as Dave, who is interested in all things 3D, but just happens to work for 3dfx. He posts as himself, for himself. If he says the wrong thing or leaks an NDA, that's his problem, and you shouldn't wholy hold it against his employer. Not to be more condescending and abrasive than I have been recently, you people have to use your brain when you post and when you read others' posts. It's not that hard. Just like you process everything else you see/hear/touch/taste/smell, so you must first process what you read here before you react. And I'm not talking about you here superbaby, I'm talking about the people who caused this thread to be born in the first place. AnandTech's forums have been experiencing a higher influx of crap posts than normal, and some of us are just slightly rebelling. Enough is enough. Please keep conversations on the level of the hardware in the GH forum, not on the people who post. If you don't like what they say, but you can't argue the facts, then please say nothing, for the good of the forum. Maybe while you keep your mouth shut you can learn a thing or two from those who contribute relevant posts.

 

[RoboTECH]

you know what?

I think I'm gonna come down there and bitchslap each and every one of you

<g>

this board has been quite an &quot;nvidia stronghold&quot;. Dave posts views that aren't popular. Is he a bit intense at times?

Sure. But he's a big boy, and he can take it. Hardware's just a knucklehead who probably giggles his head off knowing that he got under Dave's skin. I can appreciate Ben's point entirely. Dave's a fellow who can take it. He may do a bit better to &quot;be the bigger man&quot; and not take the bait. I'm sure he'll figure that one out.

I can appreciate what you're talking about Ben. It's unfortunate, but the world is full of morons. On usenet, you can toss 'em in a killfile.

In a forum, it's a bit more difficult. You just have to learn to ignore the idiots. You know what I mean?




Hello?





Anybody out there?





Heeeeeeelllooooooooooooo???????

Where'd everybody go?

<cue sound of crickets>

 

[Mikewarrior2]

I personally favor Nvidia products(largely due to their win2k driver support), and I don't take offense to what DaveB3d says at all. I do not necessarily like his tone, or his sometimes argumentative nature, but those are not reasons to flame someone.

Unfortunately, it seemed like we went through a phase where the number of idiots went down(hmmm, seemingly after GUTB mysteriously disappeared ), but they seem to be back, and in greater numbers this time.

Its like the bugs in Starship Troopers. You get rid of one, and 500,000 stand ready to take its place.



Mike
P.S. The last 2 paragraphs were JOKES.

 

[BFG10K]

BenSkywalker:

While I agree that Dave does get bashed a lot for bad reasons I also feel he needs to display a little more neutrality when it comes to posting things about the competition (especially nVidia).

In almost every thread where somebody posts up something about new technology from nVidia, Dave will often criticise it and will then explain how 3dfx's upcoming product will implement it &quot;better&quot;. While I'm sure a lot of his comments are valid criticisms some of them are uncalled for, like that time when he got stuck into nVidia's PR guy for no apparent reason.

If you work for 3dfx and bash the competition on a regular basis, people are going to question your point of view and where it's coming from.

 

[AngelOfDeath]

I don't think anything bad towards DaveB3D. But I do think that his statements seems a little too biased sometimes. And for that I think I'm entitled to comment and argue against whatever I don't agree with Dave about. But I don't think I've bashed him in any way (atleast not more than he deserved )

AoD

 

[Sunner]

Well, I hafta agree woth the people who said Dave sometimes brought it on himself.
When you're working for a company, people are gonna identify you as &quot;a 3dfx guy&quot; if the comany is 3dfx, and that's no matter what.
It might not be the way it should be, but its the way it is.

However, there were some pretty bad $hit said at first, but like someone said, recently, I think it's cooled down quite a bit.

And Ben, why leaving now?
Its been like this for a long long time, I've been around here for quite a long time, and its been pretty much the way it is now for the majority of my time here.
Anyways, it's your decision, but I'd hate to see you leave.

I dont really like Dave's way of speaking(or is that typing?) but I merely keep my a$$ out of the kitchen when he's there to bake.
I much prefer Jukka's, PM's, or Ben's general attitude in their posts, but thats just my person oppinion, and like I said, I simply keep out of most posts started by Dave(though I do read them since I dont deny that he's very knowledgeable, and the info he shares is often very interesting).

Come to think of it, I think things have been going in the right direction lately, even Hardware has started posting useful stuff, I've seen at least 3 posts that were informative just this past week(though they were mostly nVidia news, they were useful such without 3dfx bashing).

 

[Hardware]

<< If you work for 3dfx and bash the competition on a regular basis, people are going to question your point of view and where it's coming from. >>


I dont like people who are bashing the competition.

If dave would give us some real fact we could proove that but his proove is some special hardware of
we dont know if it works
how fast is it
when (if) does it come out
how much $$$
0.25 / 0.18 / 0.15 ??
etc


I could bash 3dfx in each comment as they are standing with bare hands on the xmas sale,the v6000 desaster,old tech,no features, no t&amp;l, no money,wrong management decisions,promoting features nobody wants (motion blur..) etc

Dave should point out the strength of rampage nothing else!
He should admit that nvidia is up in these days and features matter (

<< T&amp;l sucks >>

LOL)

 

[hans007]

daveb3d gets bashed because there are way to many idiots who dont show a shred of class in the world. If you were talking to dave at a convention or something, you' never speak to him like that (well i figure the most uncouth of you might still). Treat him with some respect, as he knows a lot more than you. I find most of his posts informative. Most of you flaming asses, i really dont find your posts informative at all since you know nothing.

 

[Fozzie]

&quot;I am not trying to say that some heat can't be expected in his position, but it should at the very least have some basis.&quot;

There has been some basis, his tone of responses to people who disagreed with him left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth regardless if I agreed with him or not. What I am saying from that point is Dave did not help the situation any with his responses to people that violently disagreed with him(I'm not talking flames or attacks) OR the psuedo-troll like actions where he did a bit of thread crapping. I do not see him doing that anymore, and I suspect it was a phase response to a perceived nVidia bias, esp after he just recently joined 3dfx. But that was something that would effect peoples response to him now.

Knowledge is power and it is easy to twist it in small ways to support your viewpoints. I HAVE seen this happen recently with Dave. For example when a while back he was claiming a slower video card such as the V5 that maintains a smaller frame rate fluctuation such as 40-80 instead of 50-150 would seems smoother. And then he dismissed V-sync as a method of correcting this because then you would be stuck at 60fps. When I heard that I was like &quot;wth, has Dave never seen a monitor that works at greater then 60Hz before&quot;?

So even though I respect Dave's knowledge and position in the industry(He's my age and he's working at 3dfx!) I do not simply accept it at face value without checking it anymore. I have seen enough instances of bias(forums such as here &amp; B3D) that crept into his statements that the conclusion one with less knowledge would walk away with would be incorrect.

In regards to your PM statement I agree, if someone started attacking PM with no basis I would defend him in a moment, he has shown himself to be both knowledgable and mature dealing with that knowledge. However if he was making sly somewhat anti-AMD comments here and there and then claiming that he knew most of what AMD was going to be doing with Palimino and the Hammers and that they couldn't compete with Intel's upcoming processors. I think I would step back and examine the situation to see who actions are in response to what.

With that all said I do not want Dave to leave, which I don't think he will. Nor do I want Ben or other knowledgable people to leave. Something I remind myself of is that this forum has over 35 thousand members, one of the largest on the interenet. There is a different dynamic here then you can expect on somewhere like Ace's or B3D. That is simply a fact, the noise ratio will outweigh the signal by good margins. You just need to keep the &quot;signal&quot; threads somewhat clean so that good discusions can take place. Which we have all seen happen before.

Rgrds,

 

[RagingGuardian]

<< daveb3d gets bashed because there are way to many idiots who dont show a shred of class in the world >>



Now it has gone to calling other people idiots because they share a different point of view. The message boards are for posting your opinions and share what little bit of knowledge you have on a certain topic. Unfortunately not everyone here knows alot about 3D (myself included), that's why I suggested in another thread that we start a 3D thread or something.

I'm not saying that people should blindly attack Dave, but he has made some questionable posts before, such as debunking Shiny's T&amp;L claims. That said I have no problem with DaveB3D. Members like Hardware have been biased and have been making posts to start flame wars since the day I got to these boards. Be like everyone else and ignore people who obviously don't know what they are talking about. Everyone else does it and it won't be fair for one person to be treated like a god (not insinuating he is) while others are treated like lowly peons.

 

[DeathroweR]

Ben,

Why do you feel the need to protect B3D anyway? He's not your son, he's a big boy and can answer for himself. World is a harsh place where people don't like people who know too much. And he would engage in fights with hardware without anybody's help.

Let him be and learn

 

[Ben88]

&quot;Are you honestly impressed by the fact that they're &quot;senior?&quot; That might just mean they have nothing more important to do than spend all their time here. Just as knowledge isn't a precursor to credibility, neither is a title.&quot;

I must respectfully disagree. Knowledge is not a precursor to credibility, but seniority on this board is. The most senior members on this board are generally understood to have more credibility than those who have been here shorter amounts of time. With that having been said, I find it interesting that so many people are still being flamed for posting their opinions and being accused of &quot;attacking&quot; others. Human beings are question askers, and when we see something that doesn't look right, we have to question it. I can truthfully say that I have only seen one personal attack on Dave, and that was uncalled for. Everything else has been valid critisism. If people are going to start asking us to stop questioning and critisizing things we believe to sound strange, then perhaps it is them who are in the wrong. The original post in this thread brought up a moot point, because like I said earlier, personal attacks on Dave are almost non-existant. It is time for you people to acknowledge the difference between constructive critisism and blatant personal attacks, which are in and themselves very different things. Thanks,


Ben

 

[Hardware]

Ben88: Good and valid point!

 

[HaVoC]

Wow...this thread has brought up some excellent points. I'll have to link this whenever a personal attack on Dave comes up or something like that. I hope everyone does stay and I hope this thread brings up the maturity level in posts.

 

[madthumbs]

I never ran away with my tail between my legs. I don't owe anyone anything here. Sorry if I'm too lazy to track down all the misinformation that dave has &quot;enlightened&quot; us with, or track down all the times he loses his cool and starts name calling and trolling. Why should I? I think other's have done a good job of revealing the truth. I spoke from my experiences and feel that what I say was backed up by others in this forum.

As for the little episode at 3dfxgamers.com that got me banned; I was getting my email boxes stuffed, my instant messenger barraged, my answering machine stuffed and my phone would ring off the hook at all hours of the night if I didn't unplug it. I was being harassed to no end by an obsessed person. Now you know how boys can get stupid when it comes to a woman. Well, this person saw an opportunity to &quot;get through&quot; to me at thier message board by befreinding its members and moderators. These boys clamored around her like she was some &quot;GOD&quot; or something, when they barely knew her. Meanwhile she trashed my character right and left with unjustified claims used to lash out because of her own feelings of being rejected. Incidently the harassment has not ended, but I have gotten her off my phone line by notifying the phone company, I have blocked her email as well. I have even reported her to her ISP for whatever good it did. Notice that I do not name the stalker, but if she identifies herself, she does it of her own accord.

Here is 3dfx's reply to my report of the moderator's failure to enforce the TOS;

&quot;At this point I can't ban someone for something they did in the past.
If the mods failed to notify me as it was happening, you're right. It
is their fault and this person SHOULD have been banned. But until
something arises again that warrants a ban, my hands are tied. I do
not like getting on a personal level. My job is simply to ban or warn
users as the mods send me requests, but I must say that I honestly
feel for you. I'm sorry this has happened. I only hope that you can
put it in the past. I hope that my previous email will prevent
further irritation on the matter. Thank you.&quot;

Unfortuneatly no corrective action was taken against the moderator that deleted my responses to her accusations, and left her harassment on the board for weeks.

 

[ElFenix]

madthumbs, if i recall your latest beef was that the drivers didn't work out for you for some reason, although they did work for other members of these forums. dave's claims about the drivers, that they increase performance to near geforce levels using some simple checkboxes, was not unsubstantiated. also, dave's opinion that the traditional architecture will run into roadblocks down the line, and that tiling will not have those issues, also seems to be very well reasoned and thought out. the whole shiny incident wasn't a good mark for dave, but all of us have bad days.

 

[madthumbs]

I am not the only one experiencing flaws with the drivers. I see anomolies in Quake 3, SuperBike 2000, Heavy Metal FAKK 2, and a few other games. I have noticed that the corruption went away while I was playing Quake 3 in 800x600 today, but that is not a good solution to a card that should be able to do better. I'm not even gonna try a higher resolution, as 1024x768 gives this card enough problems.

 

[Wingznut]

Look, I'm not sure why you are having problems, but I can assure you that I did see significant performance increases with the 1.03 drivers, with absolutely no anomolies whatsoever.

Just because you are having problems surely doesn't mean that Dave (or I, or many others) is full of crap.

 

[madthumbs]

Sorry, but I have only seen reports like Dave's from 2 people (including him) concerning this huge performance increase. I even went here; 3dPulpit
to see if there was any improvement from the drivers, and got the answer that the expected significant performance gain was not enabled in these drivers. I have seen far more people complain of graphic corruption in these latest drivers than I have seen the rare claims of significant performance increase. Even if Dave isn't yanking our chains, he doesn't come accross in a way that I would trust him. Resorting to taunts, harassing, name calling just makes him lose credibility in my mind.

 

[Hardware]

Do we know what Dave is doing at 3dfx?

 

[DaveB3D]

Well madthumbs,

If people wouldn't flame me so badly, I wouldn't resort to that stuff. But when I get flamed, I typically dish it back.. Though lately I've been trying to ignore flames.

As for going to 3Dpulpit to look for it, that isn't saying anything. Just because Reverend isn't talking about gains, doesn't mean they aren't there. If you'd like something posted there about it though, I can get that done. I happen to know Reverend VERY well. That is why he has taken over Beyond 3D.


btw, thank you everybody (well most anyway ).

 

[Finality]

Yeah Dave what do you do at 3dfx?

I dont think you are a marketing monkey

 

[DaveB3D]

I work in engineering