Hall of Fame level juicer for sure. Designated Hitters should be excluded on general principle. If you can't haul your fat ass out of the dugout and field a position you're not a great player.
+1Hall of Fame level juicer for sure. Designated Hitters should be excluded on general principle. If you can't haul your fat ass out of the dugout and field a position you're not a great player.
He can play a decent 1st base, can you fault him by playing on an AL team?,
Yes, I can fault EVERY AL designated hitter.
1) If you're a great PLAYER as opposed to a great HITTER your team doesn't need to hide you in the dugout.
2) DH's get FAR more rest and face FAR less risk of injury compared to real players and therefore their stats are artificially inflated.
3) DH's don't get pulled for defensive replacements like fat clumsy fielders in the National League and therefore get more at bats.
4) Only having to get off your ass 4 or 5 times a day the body is less prone to the breakdowns of long-term juicers who have to field a position every day.
If Ortiz had to be a REAL ballplayer he would not have the same offensive production, period.
He's not "hiding" in the dugout, the team is playing by the rules, in the AL you get a power bat at 1st base then get a 2nd power bat with the DH rule. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, would you walk away from $12-14mil/year on principle,? I wouldn't. Also keep in mind that those "inflated stats" you mention get "deflated" as teams "pitch around" Ortiz all the time or if he's on a red-hot streak just give him 1st every time he comes up.
Now you're trying to spin this in 2 new directions because you're getting your ass kicked on the real one.
1) WTF was talking about whether Ortiz should take the money or not? Of course he'll take the payday, that is completely 100% irrelevant.
2) And yes, it's legal according to the rules, so pointing out that the rules allow it is also 100% irrelevant. The rules allow HOF voters to exclude guys for gambling, for juicing or for not being able to field a position like a REAL ballplayers.
The point we're debating is whether Ortiz is a Hall of Famer and the point is that DH's should not be HOF worthy because they are playing a different game than EVERY OTHER player in the league. EVERYONE else has to pick up a glove and play defense to get in the game, only the DH is excluded. That gives the DH a distinct advantage in that they rest more, get injured less and only have to practice one phase of the game. And for that reason I think that NO DH's are HOF-worthy. The rules might allow them to play, but that alone does not make them Hall of Famers.
Hall of Fame level juicer for sure. Designated Hitters should be excluded on general principle. If you can't haul your fat ass out of the dugout and field a position you're not a great player.
Every position should be represented in the Hall of Fame. Ortiz is unfortunately not even close to the greatest DH to play the game. Take a look at Edgar Martinez who put up nine 5+ WAR seasons at DH. Career wOBA of .405 is insane.
Ortiz has been one of the best hitters in baseball the last few years, unfortunately he hasn't played enough years at that level to justify a nod to the hall in my mind. Will he make it? Probably, and Edgar probably won't. The Hall is a sham.
Edgar
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1086&position=3B/DH
Ortiz
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=745&position=DH
Ortiz's stats are clearly superior to Martinez's stats. Clearly superior home runs and rbi per year. Martinez has a slightly better OBP and batting average. About the same doubles.