DayZ Standalone! :)

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Fokks

Senior member
Oct 31, 1999
371
0
0
Seems like there's some misinformation here.

The original Standalone was being based on Arma2 and the mod, they scrapped that last December when they found they weren't happy with the limitations. So there's been a year of development where they took Arma "2.5" (Take on Helicopters level of the engine with elements of Arma 3)

They re-wrote the core of the game into a server/client model, with an eye towards larger MMO style servers. The clients now exist in a "network bubble", and have much less control than standard Arma, which was designed almost in reverse.

There are new player models and animations. Clothing is all bits and interchangeable pieces now, with different carrying capacities and looks. Plus items have "wear level" attributes, for which each looks different.

Each item has attributes, and they affect gameplay. (Well at least some, others don't seem to be implemented yet, but the hardest part is getting that system in place.) Get hit by a zombie? Your shirt is damaged and torn looking.

So you shoot that guy in the back? Guess what, you just ruined that sniper scope in his backpack. Mount it on your gun, look through it and see the glass is cracked and useless.

That's another thing, your weapons and other items are modifiable. Want steadier aim? Find a bipod for your Mosin rifle and attach it, and deploy it. You found a saline bag? You need to combine it with an IV kit in order to use it.

Don't have bandages? Rip up a t-shirt into rags. It's kind of dirty, might get you infected, so you could clean the rags with disinfectant first. Or you could spray that fresh orange with disinfectant and give it to someone else to chemically poison them?

There are new systems in place for food, water, blood, health.

Yes the map is still Chernarus, but it isn't the same old map, it's been completely updated. There are all the enterable buildings, but also new towns, and existing towns have grown.

Even the basic terrain has been worked over everywhere, it's not near as plain as it used to be. There are new little rises and dips everywhere, new trees, streams, roads, railroad tracks. The game looks Arma3 style pretty, the mod looks flat in comparison.

Some of the biggest foundation blocks have been put in place, now going forward we'll see performance tuning, and much more of the visual content and items, gameplay etc. being added as it gets to a full-featured Beta status.

Is the game worth it right now? Maybe not for everyone, but Rocket himself has said as much. There's a big disclaimer, and another you have to click each time the game starts.
 

Rinaun

Golden Member
Dec 30, 2005
1,195
1
81
Seems like there's some misinformation here.

The original Standalone was being based on Arma2 and the mod, they scrapped that last December when they found they weren't happy with the limitations. So there's been a year of development where they took Arma "2.5" (Take on Helicopters level of the engine with elements of Arma 3)

They re-wrote the core of the game into a server/client model, with an eye towards larger MMO style servers. The clients now exist in a "network bubble", and have much less control than standard Arma, which was designed almost in reverse.
All I get out of this section of your post is they stupidly spent 6-8 months wasting their time when it was pretty obvious they needed something similar to A3 with stripped down access( I already knew the wasting time part). You can easily see by the loading system it's based on A3's loading system.
There are new player models and animations. Clothing is all bits and interchangeable pieces now, with different carrying capacities and looks. Plus items have "wear level" attributes, for which each looks different.
To explain what they did is really easy. In original dayz, everything is stored in MYSQL databases for each server. Each server table would have the vehicles pieces and health inside a field sort of like ["gas _tank,.95","left_wheel,.43"] etc. To do the new stuff they did, they added new slots to put clothing on in the loadout (A3 does this now too and A2 mods did this as well). They then linked each new item with the actual model for it and gave it a ID in mysql database ("green_beanie,.80"). Recolored a few items to make multiple styles, bam. To do item durability, MYSQL! Items spawn in with a random damage formula (RNG through X-y% damage). Hitboxes were already in place for items in A3; a lot of this was killing two birds with one stone and is pretty much unacceptable considering most people bought both games. I mean the models for characters are even from A3 sans a FEW new faces.
Each item has attributes, and they affect gameplay. (Well at least some, others don't seem to be implemented yet, but the hardest part is getting that system in place.) Get hit by a zombie? Your shirt is damaged and torn looking.
So you shoot that guy in the back? Guess what, you just ruined that sniper scope in his backpack. Mount it on your gun, look through it and see the glass is cracked and useless.
explained above. Doesn't even work very well currently. What's even more depressing is how vague they are with how/what everything means. Claiming it's a beta is just a poor excuse for bad tooltipping (half the tooltips in the game wreak of russian programming). You can STILL do the same bullet dupe ingame; tried it last night. It works with handcuffs, too.
That's another thing, your weapons and other items are modifiable. Want steadier aim? Find a bipod for your Mosin rifle and attach it, and deploy it. You found a saline bag? You need to combine it with an IV kit in order to use it.
That's in A3; a large portion was in A2 mods currently out. Again, /yawn.
Don't have bandages? Rip up a t-shirt into rags. It's kind of dirty, might get you infected, so you could clean the rags with disinfectant first. Or you could spray that fresh orange with disinfectant and give it to someone else to chemically poison them?
Awesome but most of this actually doesn't work. Charcoal tabs are almost useless; you can drink out of swamps. What you are telling people is exactly why I post here: you keep telling people the cherries and not what actually works right now. These will all take FOREVER to fix at the developers known rate.
There are new systems in place for food, water, blood, health.

What? No there are not new systems at all; link me otherwise from rockets mouth that isnt just "we have 3d megapixels with zombie shaders" bs talk. New fields in mysql, sure. New ways it works? No. It's still a pool, that goes up and down.
Yes the map is still Chernarus, but it isn't the same old map, it's been completely updated. There are all the enterable buildings, but also new towns, and existing towns have grown.
That took 5 days at most. It took me and another 25 year old 3 days to completely add new towns and they were featured on most of the modded DayZ servers.
Even the basic terrain has been worked over everywhere, it's not near as plain as it used to be. There are new little rises and dips everywhere, new trees, streams, roads, railroad tracks. The game looks Arma3 style pretty, the mod looks flat in comparison.
It's still straight from Arma 3. It looks honestly more like A2 than A3 but I have to turn some things down since my PC is aging a bit, so I'll hold my tongue on that topic.

Some of the biggest foundation blocks have been put in place, now going forward we'll see performance tuning, and much more of the visual content and items, gameplay etc. being added as it gets to a full-featured Beta status.

Is the game worth it right now? Maybe not for everyone, but Rocket himself has said as much. There's a big disclaimer, and another you have to click each time the game starts.
I totally agree, was prewarned, and honestly I wouldn't tell someone this game sucks for the bugs; I knew what I was getting into but they were nice enough to warn me too. I think however people need to talk about the game and not overhype it/make everyone play it right now. My friends got super turned off on DayZ and they won't touch it, so NOT having everyone buy it right now will probably make more people play in the long run.
 
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Fokks

Senior member
Oct 31, 1999
371
0
0
All I get out of this section of your post is they stupidly spent 6-8 months wasting their time when it was pretty obvious they needed something similar to A3 with stripped down access( I already knew the wasting time part). You can easily see by the loading system it's based on A3's loading system.

You mention A3 like that several times in this post, did you not follow the games development? There was no real Arma3 when they started. The games were developed in parallel. They're a small studio. There are dev-blog posts explaining the same coders and artists worked on both projects, ideas cross-pollinated.

Should people get DayZ for free if they bought Arma3? Did anyone get Star Wars Battlefront or Need for Speed free, because they bought Battlefield?

You say it took "3 days" to "completely add new towns". Did you actually create any of the models or textures used? Or just take other peoples existing work, move them around in a map editor, and add some spawn coordinates.

That's a little different than what they've done creating new material, re-writing AI, creating an actual melee system (that isn't just reloading an "axe" gun like in A2), etc.

They expected a smaller start to the Alpha, and their early success may not be a good thing in the end, if people burn out on it before the full game is really fleshed out. But we'll have to wait and see.

It does sound like they will be ratcheting things up in the near future though. Here is a post from Dean yesterday on Reddit.

[–]rocket2gunsRocket 842 points 21 hours ago
We (bohemia and I) had very ambitious plans for 2014 already, however this amount of sales was completely unexpected. Honestly, 250k within a quarter was what I would have considered a success. So to move nearly 800,000 in under a month is crazy.
We'll be finalizing our roadmap in mid January, but it is safe to say that this kind of result will be having a very positive effect on that roadmap.
 

Rinaun

Golden Member
Dec 30, 2005
1,195
1
81
You mention A3 like that several times in this post, did you not follow the games development? There was no real Arma3 when they started. The games were developed in parallel. They're a small studio. There are dev-blog posts explaining the same coders and artists worked on both projects, ideas cross-pollinated.

Should people get DayZ for free if they bought Arma3? Did anyone get Star Wars Battlefront or Need for Speed free, because they bought Battlefield?
First BI isn't that small.

Bohemia Interactive employee count: 200
Telltale Games Employee count: 125
Infinity Ward Employee Count: 125
Second, you sorta discredit your argument right off the bat.
They're a small studio. There are dev-blog posts explaining the same coders and artists worked on both projects, ideas cross-pollinated.
So what you say even yourself is they use one team to work on two games. That to me is being cheap and unfair to loyal consumers. That's just my opinion. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm happy to see clothing/accessories wearable in ARMA 3.....but standalone is taking a bit longer than a few people (like me) are comfortable with.

They aren't a giant but they are far from some mom and pop production company. ARMA is a fairly popular Milsim that sold plenty of copies long before DayZ was a summer success. DayZ was obviously bigger than the ARMA series after it's release though, and thus BI hired more people. Progress is still pretty slow.
You say it took "3 days" to "completely add new towns". Did you actually create any of the models or textures used? Or just take other peoples existing work, move them around in a map editor, and add some spawn coordinates.That's a little different than what they've done creating new material, re-writing AI, creating an actual melee system (that isn't just reloading an "axe" gun like in A2), etc.
Uh yeah, making new models took maybe a week tops. I can ask the maker of Epoch mod for you if you'd like but it seems like they've gotten a lot done compared to standalone and they haven't been paid millions. All of the stuff rocket has done currently aside from the UI reworking (that MIGHT have been difficult since it hadn't been done in ARMA's engine before that tastefully) would have taken a crew of 40 people 2-3 months to do. It's been how long again? They're even avoiding the main issues that I knew they'd run into: the HIVE system being overloaded and servers not being optimized correctly. They took zombie pathing head on like champs and it's kicking their asses hard. You stutter constantly ingame no matter what server because of the load on his retarded single HIVE idea.

Also, there is no melee system...wth are you talking about? what AI are you talking about as well? They rmeoved even animals so the only AI you can be talking about is the Zombie AI which is horrendous right now. You must not play standalone because the AI is worse by a LARGE amount than the original AI it's that "improved". Even if it's a new system, it's currently overloading the server and the zombies don't even work right at all. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to have a zombie skate into a room like he's on ice straight through stairs and a wall but not be able to kill it.



It does sound like they will be ratcheting things up in the near future though. Here is a post from Dean yesterday on Reddit.
Good Hope so!
 
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Fokks

Senior member
Oct 31, 1999
371
0
0
OK, that's fine we have differing opinions on that stuff.

They're even avoiding the main issues that I knew they'd run into: the HIVE system being overloaded and servers not being optimized correctly. They took zombie pathing head on like champs and it's kicking their asses hard. You stutter constantly ingame no matter what server because of the load on his retarded single HIVE idea.

My assumption on the hive situation is due to it being Alpha, and wanting to control the experience at this point. It's obvious they weren't expecting this kind of load/population this early (and it is handling better than EA did with Sim City for instance, although not a high benchmark .) The DDOS attacks haven't helped. Having said that, this was in todays new patch notes.

Server: Initial implementation for Sub-Private Hives (ongoing)
Server: Initial implementation for regular & hardcore Public Hive



Also, there is no melee system...wth are you talking about? what AI are you talking about as well? They rmeoved even animals so the only AI you can be talking about is the Zombie AI which is horrendous right now. You must not play standalone because the AI is worse by a LARGE amount than the original AI it's that "improved". Even if it's a new system, it's currently overloading the server and the zombies don't even work right at all. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to have a zombie skate into a room like he's on ice straight through stairs and a wall but not be able to kill it.

Agree with you on the zombies, they are pretty wonky and can be frustrating right now.

There is an entirely new melee system though. Here's some quotes from Rocket before the Alpha release. (He's referring to inspiration from the Chivalry: Medieval Warfare game.)

rocket2gunsRocket 30 points 1 month ago
The inspration for the system comes from that. Obviously, we're taking the first steps with that:
tracing along the weapon, so the weapons position in the animation matters
causing effects (both visual, audial, and spacial) for hitting and missing, to give the player feedback on what has occurred instantly
complex damage mechanics, such as bleeding, the ability (not finished yet) to break bones and etc...

Feedback on melee depends perhaps on perspective. We are far, far beyond what we initially anticipated that we could do. However, this means that we now are the bottom of a different league, and it's natural to start comparing melee to games that do it much better. So I kind of have mixed feelings on it.
Some positive points:
- Bones moves when you hit body parts. i.e. you hit someone in their head, their head moves away from the impact in response.
- Ballistic damage, brute damage, and slash damage types supported.
- Bleeding occurs from points of impact.
- Damage is resolved by the server only
- Different weapons have different attacks
- attacks to different body parts cause different effects.

Some negative points:
- The "gestures" system (animation method) is rudimentary and results in some weird looking animation bleeding at times
- When FPS is low, hit detection can limited. However, hit resolution is good so long as the server is above 10 FPS. Detection is made clientside, and then the resolution is requested from the server based on this.
- Feedback of hitting is not quite as good as we want. Just the body parts moving, sound effect, and contact splat of blood.
- Sounds have not been done at all, placeholder contact sounds are used from bullet damage (our audio designer has not started at the company yet)
probably much more that I'm forgetting.
EDIT: I missed the biggest problem: controls. We are still revising how to actually control your "stance" and then reconcile that with controlling weapon "stance" in a cohesive and intuitive way, it might be some time before this is resolved.
 

Rinaun

Golden Member
Dec 30, 2005
1,195
1
81
There is an entirely new melee system though. Here's some quotes from Rocket before the Alpha release. (He's referring to inspiration from the Chivalry: Medieval Warfare game.)

You do realize it took the chivalry team almost 2-3 years to get melee swings to work in UDK the way they chose to implement it? UDK is MUCH easier to do that than A3, so multiply the time by x2. What rocket is telling you in that post is "we have this stuff all planned, but we're banking on people buying the game and forgetting about it because there's no feasible way this is all getting done in 2 years". That's honestly the vibe I'm getting. As much as he can act like they weren't amazed standalone did so successful, deep down they knew it would sell copies and that's why they pulled the "it's going to get more expensive so BUY NOW!!". Please stop being so naive and not thinking that this isn't just a giant preorder scheme . BI had plenty of cash to fund the game, they just if anything are hesitant on the IP still which is borderline silly (it sold more A2 copies than A2 alone). BI was even hesitant on picking up Rocket at first which was just wetoaded.


A large portion of any new dayz popularity has to do with streamers not playing DayZ for months and coming back acting like it's some new experience; it's not, its the SAME GAME WITHOUT HUNTING AND VEHICLES AND MORE MEDICAL STUFF THAT DOESNT WORK AND LESS GUNS. I think by far the most popular things is force-feeding and handcuffs, both are already in existing mods for arma. Also it didn't help that at the end of the DayZ mod there were 2892035950235 servers with all differing versions and hackers were just accepted. Bottom line is DayZ is a great idea/premise but the DayZ staff are doing a horrible job with the IP. Look at Rust if you don't believe me. Rust took half the time and it's blowing past DayZ.

OK, that's fine we have differing opinions on that stuff.



My assumption on the hive situation is due to it being Alpha, and wanting to control the experience at this point. It's obvious they weren't expecting this kind of load/population this early (and it is handling better than EA did with Sim City for instance, although not a high benchmark .) The DDOS attacks haven't helped. Having said that, this was in todays new patch notes.

That again is just stupid silly. They weren't expecting the load? It's less players than peak DayZ and they are still using a similar HIVE system (mysql, socket etc). Comparing this to sim city is a bit of a joke considering sim city had entire maps to load and not just a single row of MYSQL data. That's just straight up silly to compare the two. one is (assumption) non-text based data, the other is a text string; all your DayZ character info is less than 1-2kbs. DDOS sure but It's been this way since the day it came out. I'd be a bit wary on "oh yeah 24/7 ddos guys". Every server has rubberbanding, at really any time. If you can't notice it start watching for it. It happens every 3 minutes when the server tries to save the players data. The server CHUGS sending what, 30kbs of data?

Like I said earlier, I want this game to be popular and big because I like it. If anything will kill this game, it's the horrendously slow/disorganized dev team.

P.S. remember rocket is a new dev. This is his first game. BI is just guiding him. I would not be amazed if he's not thinking about how long this game will actually take compared to the funding. It's hard to sell copies at 50$ when everyone already has a copy when it was in alpha for a year AND was already incredibly popular, unlike minecraft.
 
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Fokks

Senior member
Oct 31, 1999
371
0
0
You do realize it took the chivalry team almost 2-3 years to get melee swings to work in UDK the way they chose to implement it? UDK is MUCH easier to do that than A3, so multiply the time by x2. What rocket is telling you in that post is "we have this stuff all planned, but we're banking on people buying the game and forgetting about it because there's no feasible way this is all getting done in 2 years". That's honestly the vibe I'm getting.

Man you are a glass half-empty guy You say they wasted all their time and didn't do anything, and if we point out something like the melee system, you say that's too much work and can't possibly be done yet.

Those quotes were from demos months ago. This isn't a future item, it's already part of the game. Hit a guys head with your fists, and it bobbles around. Your axe hits in an arc, not a targeted spot.
 

Rinaun

Golden Member
Dec 30, 2005
1,195
1
81
Man you are a glass half-empty guy You say they wasted all their time and didn't do anything, and if we point out something like the melee system, you say that's too much work and can't possibly be done yet.

Those quotes were from demos months ago. This isn't a future item, it's already part of the game. Hit a guys head with your fists, and it bobbles around. Your axe hits in an arc, not a targeted spot.

Chivalry uses ray-tracing to find out where the swing will land correspondent of where the blow was delivered model-wise. Some games, such as ARMA II, STALKER(entire series) use raycasting that helps calculate penetration with deflection angles. If you've played Chivalry you'd know 12v12 caused a fair amount of lag because of the servers calculating the tracing. I'm happy to hear they have that feature in-game currently, but there's a lot to fix network and hive-wise before axes will look like they use ray-tracing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVYOhTpXE_Q

Above is a video from the mod. That's pretty much exactly how zombies and swinging work now, with ten times more lag occuring in Standalone at 4AM. If they've added anything it's broken beyond recognition or it's in such an alpha state I wouldn't consider it in-game just yet.


As a side note: if I started up A3, made a demo map with SQF and make hitboxes toggle-able would you then believe this isn't some guy building a house or something actually......hard? I mean what were talking about sans ray tracing would take a day or two with the designers they have at BI who invented the systems; for me it'd take a week or two. It's still not accounting for the 6 months rocket took off and left the project to die while other games/devs moved in on the mod or clones like Warz/Rust.

Yes, I'm half-empty on this project because it's been a mod for almost two years now and Rust has blown past it in the few months it's been known about. If they don't hire more people I'd bet rust fills in every single spot of joy that DayZ did for streamers. You can't even stream DayZ right now because every 30 minutes it crashes. I more than anyone want to see DayZ succeed but they need to pull their pants up and hire a ton of people to get this rolling fast .
 
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lilrayray69

Senior member
Apr 4, 2013
501
1
76
Yeah I decided to get the standalone and am sort of disappointed. If anything it seems like there is less in the game than there was in the mod. A lot of added items are just unnecessary filler - pens, wrenches, baseball bats, hats, etc. while not much in the way of guns was added...Why they changed around the functionality of skinning knife, hatchet, etc. I also do not know.

The graphics sort of look better but it runs even worse than ARMA II did. I have it on lower settings than I ever ran A2 with and get far fewer FPS. There's also no debug monitor which I find sort of annoying; never know how much blood I have. The server list also sucks, DayZ Commander did it much better by showing in-game time.

All I really see they've added is misc items, lots of clothing, a new inventory system (kind of the same as A3, right?), and made most buildings enter-able (which is cool).

I'm kind of sad I didn't get A3 instead and just play the mod on there, plus the main game - or maybe even Rust...
 

Rinaun

Golden Member
Dec 30, 2005
1,195
1
81
Yeah I decided to get the standalone and am sort of disappointed. If anything it seems like there is less in the game than there was in the mod. A lot of added items are just unnecessary filler - pens, wrenches, baseball bats, hats, etc. while not much in the way of guns was added...Why they changed around the functionality of skinning knife, hatchet, etc. I also do not know.

The graphics sort of look better but it runs even worse than ARMA II did. I have it on lower settings than I ever ran A2 with and get far fewer FPS. There's also no debug monitor which I find sort of annoying; never know how much blood I have. The server list also sucks, DayZ Commander did it much better by showing in-game time.

All I really see they've added is misc items, lots of clothing, a new inventory system (kind of the same as A3, right?), and made most buildings enter-able (which is cool).

I'm kind of sad I didn't get A3 instead and just play the mod on there, plus the main game - or maybe even Rust...

I find this post very accurate to what me and 3 others felt during our week playing standalone. The inventory system IS really cool (when it isn't being clunky).

Side note: They added pen and paper, but I've never seen anyone use it because of how often the server restarts. Things like adding paper/pens don't make sense over things like "add new types of weapons/guns". We don't need 5000 melee weapons when the melee combat/animation won't even work correctly; we only have like 4-5 guns to use....
 
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ScottAD

Senior member
Jan 10, 2007
735
77
91
It's an Alpha. You were warned. It says DO NOT BUY if you don't get that...so why be pissed?

I'm okay with it. I loved the mod and still play it as well as the SA.

If anyone ever wants to play my steam is eventhorizonvii
 

Lil Frier

Platinum Member
Oct 3, 2013
2,720
21
81
Ehh, I've already taken up the ideal that I'll never buy an Early Access game. Not that I think it's an overall scam, but I don't like the idea that I don't have to get a full game to have to pay the full price. I'd rather pre-order a game that is supposed to be in a complete state upon release, instead of spending $30+ for an alpha version that isn't obligated to get out of alpha.
 

Rinaun

Golden Member
Dec 30, 2005
1,195
1
81
Ehh, I've already taken up the ideal that I'll never buy an Early Access game. Not that I think it's an overall scam, but I don't like the idea that I don't have to get a full game to have to pay the full price. I'd rather pre-order a game that is supposed to be in a complete state upon release, instead of spending $30+ for an alpha version that isn't obligated to get out of alpha.

100% agreed. I'm tired of all these new companies releasing their work early in a rush to get people's money. For example, next car game or whatever it's called. My brother bought it and it's really nothing more than a beefed up physx tech demo. Hardly worth 30$ IMHO but people are buying it like hotcakes, which is why I'm again working on a few projects of my own.

TLDR: You can whine about how pre-orders are now alpha, or you can just evolve with the system, use that to your advantage, and prosper
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
Is it true the multi version of this is roguelike in the notion that one death means game over? I can't imagine the glorious rage that brings out in players who've spent a significant amount of time on it.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
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Congratulations for failing to read the description and warning when you bought it.

Good contribution Mr. Puss, however I do feel alpha or not if you're accepting money for it the customer isn't completely crazy for expecting to work.
I will admit that being snookered by a game developer is a rite of passage for any gamer.
 

VulgarDisplay

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2009
6,193
2
76
They have basically stated that the reason why the price is currently $30 is because they wanted to discourage people who weren't interested in participating in an ACTUAL alpha from buying it.

They set the price high not to fleece customers, but to stop people like you from buying it...
 
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