DDM Tuning HID kit installed - Now with projectors!

[Yuriman]

I'm giving these a try:

TeXenon Mini H1 Retrofit Bi-Xenon / HID Projectors - $50

I might ask for an exchange of bulbs with DDM if they're willing, if these don't work very well with them. Considering H4's are an upcharge over H1's, I doubt they'd have a problem with it.

 

[Yuriman]

The weather was nice today so I decided to install my projectors. First step is to pull the headlights out, which requires loosening the bumper. There are four bolts that hold the headlight on, two of which are on the underside.

Next step is to bake at ~200-250f for 5-8 minutes, or however long it takes to melt the goop that holds the clear plastic on. Once the goop is soft, pry the headlight apart with a screwdriver.

The guides I read generally suggest breaking off the plastic piece that covers the bulb, but it can be unscrewed if you fully disassemble the reflector. I decided to take this route so this mod would be completely reversible.

Next step is to attach the projectors themselves. They fit in just like a normal bulb (H4) but I cut the tabs off of the "backplate" so I could rotate the projectors. It would have been unfortunate to have completely reassembled, only to find the beams were tilted 10° (which they would have been).

There's a small amount of light scatter due to the outer plastic catching the light; it's starting to yellow again and needs to be resurfaced. I could improve this by painting the reflectors black, but again, reversible is the goal. Better to fix it properly by treating the outside. The amount of scatter will definitely not be a problem for other drivers in the mean time.

Getting the projectors level.

Here's an action shot from my test drive, picking up fast food for my wife. Very clean cutoff.

Final look:

Before you ask, the grille blocks help warmup time and increase highway mileage. I pull them off when the weather warms up. Volvo actually sold grille blocks in the past you could add to their cars in northern climes.

The power cords are for a block heater and chargers/tenders I built for both the big and little battery, so I always leave home with a full charge.

Over the Thanksgiving holiday I drove almost 800 miles on one 10 gallon tank (77mpg) without bothering other drivers. I got in the right lane and did 65 the entire way. Outside Jacksonville and Tampa, when on the concrete roads, I had some stretches of more than 20 miles where I was getting 100mpg at 60mph, the speed traffic was moving at.

EDIT: I didn't stay parked like an asshole. I was in that spot for leveling purposes.

 

[Fenixgoon]

so what's your cutoff actually look like against a wall? hard to tell from your action shot.

 

[Yuriman]

so what's your cutoff actually look like against a wall? hard to tell from your action shot.

I don't have any clean walls to get a good picture on tonight (apartment complex) but here's a shot of it shining into the woods in front of my door:

^ The light curves on the sides because the ground isn't level, nor is the car. I have it set to project the light almost perfectly parallel to the ground, with a very slight downward tilt. Might need a bit of fine tuning, but it'll do until I have a nice surface to use.

 

[Pulsar]

I don't have any clean walls to get a good picture on tonight (apartment complex) but here's a shot of it shining into the woods in front of my door:

^ The light curves on the sides because the ground isn't level, nor is the car. I have it set to project the light almost perfectly parallel to the ground, with a very slight downward tilt. Might need a bit of fine tuning, but it'll do until I have a nice surface to use.

VERY nice!

 

[vshah]

odd...still don't see a "proper" hid cutoff, at least from those pics. Maybe it's a limitation of that projector type.

 

[Yuriman]

There's some small degree of scattering due to the slightly cloudy plastic lenses the projectors are behind. I tested them before reassembling and the cutoff was much sharper without the plastic in place. Resurfacing should help significantly.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Looks better than it did.

I hate people who install these kits and then blind everyone coming down the road with them. So many people do this to their cars and do it badly. Just leave it alone or buy a car with proper HID headlights to begin with.

 

[Yuriman]

Looks better than it did.

I hate people who install these kits and then blind everyone coming down the road with them. So many people do this to their cars and do it badly. Just leave it alone or buy a car with proper HID headlights to begin with.

Find me a car that I can purchase for under $4,000 with the same interior space and comforts, with factory HIDs, and can deliver 70-100mpg on the highway, and I will. I should've taken some before shots, the visibility was horrid.

HIDs are also part of a larger project to cut down on the electrical load, thus improving my mileage (quantifiably).


You guys will probably crap your pants when you see what I have planned for it next.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Find me a car that I can purchase for under $4,000 with the same interior space and comforts, with factory HIDs, and can deliver 70-100mpg on the highway, and I will. I should've taken some before shots, the visibility was horrid.

HIDs are also part of a larger project to cut down on the electrical load, thus improving my mileage (quantifiably).

You guys will probably crap your pants when you see what I have planned for it next.

What do you need HIDs for? Every car sold in the United States has to meet federal regulations for lighting. If you can't see or the illumination, in your opinion, is "horrid" then perhaps you need to fix your car. Halogen bulbs get dimmer over time and should be replaced periodically and if your plastic headlight housings are damaged or dull you can polish them or replace them.

Your charging system is perfectly capable of running all the accessories that your car came with. If it isn't then there is something wrong with it and it needs to be repaired or replaced. You aren't going to improve your mileage by changing to HID lights.

 

[Yuriman]

What do you need HIDs for? Every car sold in the United States has to meet federal regulations for lighting. If you can't see or the illumination, in your opinion, is "horrid" then perhaps you need to fix your car. Halogen bulbs get dimmer over time and should be replaced periodically and if your plastic headlight housings are damaged or dull you can polish them or replace them.

Your charging system is perfectly capable of running all the accessories that your car came with. If it isn't then there is something wrong with it and it needs to be repaired or replaced. You aren't going to improve your mileage by changing to HID lights.

So far in total I've managed to shave more than 500 watts off when running at the device end through various means, and ~700 watts = 1hp. HIDs draw less power than halogens for a given brightness, and are good for at least 40 watts at the bulb (together), and probably closer to 60 watts at the flywheel after taking into account resistance and losses in DC-DC conversion and such. Considering the car needs less than 15hp to cruise at highway speeds, by cutting down electrical needs I'm able to cruise on the highway with as much as 6-10% less fuel used. I keep logs of my fuel usage and over Thanksgiving I set several personal records despite the weather cooling off, which normally has a negative impact on fuel economy.

I plug my car into the grid when I get home, and reducing draw helps extend the range of trips in which the DC-DC converter may not even come on, which prevents the electric motor from increasing drag on the engine to generate the electricity.

Electricity isn't free in a car - you actually pay significantly more for it than at home - and people replace bulbs in their houses for no better reason than to cut watts. HIDs + projectors looked to be a better option than LED drop in replacements right now.

EDIT: And in my opinion, the results are good.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I can't imagine it makes any difference at all. I have fog lamps on my hybrid and I notice zero difference between running with them on vs off. Hell, I notice very little, if any, difference running with the A/C on vs off. I do notice a difference if I use the heater though as this requires the gas engine to turn on more often to keep the coolant hot and flowing through the heater core so I tend not to use it and instead turn the electric seat heaters on when it is cooler out.

Everything on my car is powered by the electrical system. There are no belts to run any accessories.

I'm pretty happy with it the way it is. And the halogen headlights do an adequate job of illuminating the road.

 

[Yuriman]

I can't imagine it makes any difference at all. I have fog lamps on my hybrid and I notice zero difference between running with them on vs off. Hell, I notice very little, if any, difference running with the A/C on vs off. I do notice a difference if I use the heater though as this requires the gas engine to turn on more often to keep the coolant hot and flowing through the heater core so I tend not to use it and instead turn the electric seat heaters on when it is cooler out.

Everything on my car is powered by the electrical system. There are no belts to run any accessories.

You probably don't pay very close attention to it then.

I don't really mean that, tbh. A Prius (or whichever car you're driving) has larger batteries, which buffers the electrical load, a bigger engine, and the A/C compressor is probably more efficient than what they had 15 years ago when they built this one. My car puts out 67HP before hybrid assist, weighs less than 1800lbs, and the difference in city driving between running the A/C and not can be as much as 75mpg vs 55mpg, all else being equal, and generally requires that I pick a lower gear to climb hills.

Oddly, heat is nearly free in my car. If I have it in econ mode, it'll still shut off the engine and fan when the heat is on.

EDIT: I should add that the current reduction from the bulbs alone is basically unnoticeable above background noise, but cumulatively the electrical reductions are significant. Look for 1600 ways to shave an ounce, rather than one way to shave 100lbs.

 

[Ferzerp]

You've spent far more on these things than the paltry fuel savings you will gain over the life of the vehicle.

 

[JulesMaximus]

You probably don't pay very close attention to it then.

I don't really mean that, tbh. A Prius (or whichever car you're driving) has larger batteries, which buffers the electrical load, a bigger engine, and the A/C compressor is probably more efficient than what they had 15 years ago when they built this one. My car puts out 67HP before hybrid assist, weighs less than 1800lbs, and the difference in city driving between running the A/C and not can be as much as 75mpg vs 55mpg, all else being equal, and generally requires that I pick a lower gear to climb hills.

Oddly, heat is nearly free in my car. If I have it in econ mode, it'll still shut off the engine and fan when the heat is on.

EDIT: I should add that the current reduction from the bulbs alone is basically unnoticeable above background noise, but cumulatively the electrical reductions are significant. Look for 1600 ways to shave an ounce, rather than one way to shave 100lbs.

It is a 2012 Camry Hybrid. I've put over 36,000 miles on it since I bought it in March of 2013. I average around 38-39mpg in very mixed driving and I just drive it normally. If it is hot out I turn on the A/C, if it is dark I turn on the lights (including the fog lights), I nearly always have the radio on and everything in the car is power, power seats, power windows, power mirrors, power moonroof.

Sometimes on my drive home I may sit through 4-5 cycles at this one stoplight so if traffic is backed up there I may turn the radio and A/C off if it's not too warm out and I may dim the dash lights to keep from draining the hybrid battery as quickly and having the gas engine turn on and run for no reason but otherwise I just drive it normally.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, it seems like your second attempt with the HIDs has done a lot to minimize the scatter of light, which I commend. It just annoys me that the other six million people who buy these kits don't do that. Brighter is always better right?

 

[Yuriman]

For sure. And I acknowledge that the break-even point in fuel savings isn't going to be within the lifetime of this car, but I also have the benefit of superior visibility, which was my primary motivator to begin with. I might not have done this mod had the power usage increased significantly.

EDIT: Assuming I do 1/3 of my driving with the headlights on, and I average ~50mph and drive 15,000 miles per year, that's 100 hours spent in the car per year. Let's say it ends up as 60w at the flywheel, and the car is averaging around 10,000w to propel itself. The lights would then be worth 0.6% fuel economy 1/3 of the time. I'll spend $810 per year in gas and $2.80 of that goes to running the headlights, with $1.60 saved over halogens. If I ran them all the time when I was in the car, it'd come out to about $5 per year, would would make 18 years or 270,000 miles my break-even point. I might put another 270,000 miles on it before I'm done, but there's no way I'll be doing 3x that.

 

[Ferzerp]

I agree with you in that they are superior to halogens (but I'd never retrofit a car unless with an OEM set from the same model), but you were using power to justify it which is silly

 

[ThatsABigOne]

A wall picture would be great. If the light spread is good enough, then I am purchasing those projectors...

 

[Yuriman]

I'll find a nice wall this evening.

 

[Yuriman]

Driver:

Passenger:

Both:

The fence slopes down to the left a bit, but there's not a level spot in this damn town. Looks like I need to aim the projectors out, particularly the driver, and the passenger headlight needs to be turned about 5-10° clockwise. Driver light might need to be turned a few degrees clockwise too.

The cutoff on the passenger headlight is not as sharp (more visible in person) because that headlight is more in need of restoration. Foggy lens scatters some light back into the relfector.

 

[tweakmonkey]

Cool, I'm not an expert, but it still looks like they're aimed too low. I'd try to find a big box store like Home Depot / Best Buy if there's one within any reasonable distance and use their back lot etc.

This might help for adjustment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysryIgg4blw

A few pics showing how high they usually are (?)

I miss the projectors on my S2000. They were great...

 

[Yuriman]

Cool, I'm not an expert, but it still looks like they're aimed too low. I'd try to find a big box store like Home Depot / Best Buy if there's one within any reasonable distance and use their back lot etc.

This might help for adjustment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysryIgg4blw

The height adjustment is fine. The fence is on a slope, so it starts about a foot and some change above where the car was parked, and the stock ride height is less than 6 inches, from the factory. It was the best I could find nearby.

Thanks for the link though. I'll be in Jacksonville next week and will have a level area with which to fine tune it.

 

[Greenman]

HID's in reflector housing are always a bad idea. Even if you are driving in a low car, you'll still blind people.

You know why?

BECAUSE ALL THOSE EXTRA LUMENS ARE BEING REFLECTED EVERYWHERE INSTEAD OF FOCUSED INTO A BEAM WITH A SPECIFIC CUT-OFF.

It's your ride, but that was (A) really stupid, (B) didn't add much road visibility as a driver, (C) may be illegal in your area, and (D) will blind people.

Congratulations!

Now I understand why some of the cars around here look like they're using a carbon arc for headlights.

 

[vshah]

I miss the projectors on my S2000. They were great...

retrofit! s2k retrofit was the best mod I ever did on the civic. need to find a spare set of NSX lights so I can do it to that too.

nothing quite like lighting up 6 lanes side to side.

Yuriman, good on you for trying to eke every bit of efficiency out of the car. more power to you!

 

[tweakmonkey]

Nah I'm not about to hack apart my leased 2015 Fiesta ST. I could buy the European OEM lights with projectors and LED running lights but I'd rather spend the $800 on gas and tires. The stock lights are good though.