ok, guys, I have to jump on the tiger bandwagon here, I ordered a couple items from them and had no probs with one order but the other (PNY GF2Ti w/$30mir) came in a white box even though the pic(I know, never trust that) and the ad said retail, also no upc to be found and I ended up having to call tiger and PNY and complain of false advertising, better business bureau, etc. but finall got rebate and it *was* a good deal in the end but not worth hassle or possible rebate denial or incorect amount etc. just a FYI.