DDR2 1066 substancially better than 800?

[coolcolin09]

Hey guys!

I am getting my new PC in a week or so, and have a question about memory. NewEgg is having a combo deal on one of the 4870's where I can get CORSAIR 4GB DDR2 800 for dirt cheap, $25 after mail-in-rebates plus the combo discount. I'm kind of skeptical about it though. Right now I have G.SKILL 4GB 1066 memory selected. So my question is, will there be that big of a difference?

Here are some more specs for my future comp:

E8400
P5Q Pro mobo
Vista 64-bit
ATI 4870

I will be using the new build for Creative Suite 4, FS2004/FSX, Call of Duty 4/5, and maybe some Crysis or FarCry 2 later on when I have more money.

I'm coming from a Compaq V2000, so anything will be better lol. I just want to make sure I have some room to overclock; possibly around 3.6GHz to 3.8GHz; I hear those cpu speeds are pretty stable with the E8400.

Thanks!

 

[magreen]

Ddr2-800 will let you OC to 3.6GHz without OCing your ram, since your cpu has a 9x multi. That should do you nicely. Skip the 1066.

 

[18 Is Number 1]

For Adobe CS, more GBs are better than faster MHz. More MHzs will give better performance, but onlt a small difference compared to more GBs.

 

[taltamir]

all ram modules from all manufacturers advertise their stable OC speeds, not their real default operating speeds. That is... DDR2-800 means that you have to raise voltage OR loosen timing compared to what is advertised to get said speeds. Raising voltage to OC the ram is bad, especially because northbridge temp might be a more serious issue for some intel CPU overclocking (which is related to the amount of data it has to move between the CPU and RAM).
That being said. There is nothing wrong with running it at looser timings, which is what I do, and then you can still get your 3.6ghz oc, as well as using a default non raised ram voltage.
Basically DDR2-1066 means you can get the advertised timings with the default voltage on DDR2-800 speeds (which is what I do, I own DDR2-1000 2x2GB and run them at DDR2-800 but at JEDEC voltage spec and at the timings they actually advertised).

Honestly ram speed is the LEAST important thing to system overall speed; we are talking 1% speed improvement overall from going DDR2-800 to DDR3-1600. Ram amount matters a lot more, and 4GB is definitely more then enough for most tasks. So just save yourself some bucks and get the 25$ deal.

 

[jvnk]

From what I've read on overclocking forums, DDR2@1066's higher clock rate more than makes up for its higher CAS/RAS latencies.

 

[coolcolin09]

Thanks guys! I appreciate you writing that rather long message, taltamir. That brings the system price from $1300+ with a more expensive 4870 to $1040 after rebates with the CORSAIR 4GB 800MHz and 4870 combo. Thanks a lot!

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: jvnk
From what I've read on overclocking forums, DDR2@1066's higher clock rate more than makes up for its higher CAS/RAS latencies.

It would, if you consider a maximum 3% gain in performance with *some* applications (1% gain or less in most others) to be significant. The advantage can be a little higher if you are comparing very aggressive DDR2-1066 timings with relatively poor DDR2-800 timings, but not when timings are comparably aggressive for both DDR2-800 and DDR2-1066.

 

[magreen]

Originally posted by: taltamir
all ram modules from all manufacturers advertise their stable OC speeds, not their real default operating speeds. That is... DDR2-800 means that you have to raise voltage OR loosen timing compared to what is advertised to get said speeds. Raising voltage to OC the ram is bad, especially because northbridge temp might be a more serious issue for some intel CPU overclocking (which is related to the amount of data it has to move between the CPU and RAM).
That being said. There is nothing wrong with running it at looser timings, which is what I do, and then you can still get your 3.6ghz oc, as well as using a default non raised ram voltage.
Basically DDR2-1066 means you can get the advertised timings with the default voltage on DDR2-800 speeds (which is what I do, I own DDR2-1000 2x2GB and run them at DDR2-800 but at JEDEC voltage spec and at the timings they actually advertised).

Honestly ram speed is the LEAST important thing to system overall speed; we are talking 1% speed improvement overall from going DDR2-800 to DDR3-1600. Ram amount matters a lot more, and 4GB is definitely more then enough for most tasks. So just save yourself some bucks and get the 25$ deal.

You have to raise voltage or loosen timings to attain the advertised speed? Then send the ram back, it's defective. E.g. if they advertise ddr2-800 @1.8V at 5-5-5-18 timings, then it damn well better do that stably without loosening timings or raising voltages, or it deserves an RMA.

Also, it depends on the cpu architecture whether ram speed affects performance significantly. Core2Duo, no. AMD X2, yes. core i7, unknown, but likely similar to AMD X2 since it has an integrated memory controller instead of an fsb.

 

[taltamir]

thats the thing, they don't advertise the voltage, you have be aware that the advertised speed of any ram is always with voltage above the JEDEC standard.

For example, DDR2-800 with 5-5-5-15 timings is with 2.2v.

2.2v is above the JEDEC spec which calls for 1.8v, you MUST have an overclocking board capable of overvolting the ram to get the advertising specs of DDR2-800 5-5-5-15, or loosen timings, or lower the mhz. And every single ram manufacturer out there does it.

Realistically most people just plug in the ram and it works, but it works at 1.8v (or whatever JEDEC calls for your DDR type) and at looser timings which you have to manually tighten in the bios. This is something unique to ram. Nobody ever had to go into the bios and raise the voltage and lower the HT bus of their CPU to get the mhz speed it said on the box.

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: taltamir
thats the thing, they don't advertise the voltage, you have be aware that the advertised speed of any ram is always with voltage above the JEDEC standard.

For example, DDR2-800 with 5-5-5-15 timings is with 2.2v.

2.2v is above the JEDEC spec which calls for 1.8v, you MUST have an overclocking board capable of overvolting the ram to get the advertising specs of DDR2-800 5-5-5-15, or loosen timings, or lower the mhz. And every single ram manufacturer out there does it.

Realistically most people just plug in the ram and it works, but it works at 1.8v (or whatever JEDEC calls for your DDR type) and at looser timings which you have to manually tighten in the bios. This is something unique to ram. Nobody ever had to go into the bios and raise the voltage and lower the HT bus of their CPU to get the mhz speed it said on the box.

Not always, I've seen some DDR-1000 ram rated at 1.8v. Usually though, most are advertised with a voltage listed, but it's usually between 2.0-2.2v.

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: taltamir
thats the thing, they don't advertise the voltage, you have be aware that the advertised speed of any ram is always with voltage above the JEDEC standard.

For example, DDR2-800 with 5-5-5-15 timings is with 2.2v.

2.2v is above the JEDEC spec which calls for 1.8v, you MUST have an overclocking board capable of overvolting the ram to get the advertising specs of DDR2-800 5-5-5-15, or loosen timings, or lower the mhz. And every single ram manufacturer out there does it.

Realistically most people just plug in the ram and it works, but it works at 1.8v (or whatever JEDEC calls for your DDR type) and at looser timings which you have to manually tighten in the bios. This is something unique to ram. Nobody ever had to go into the bios and raise the voltage and lower the HT bus of their CPU to get the mhz speed it said on the box.

There is indeed RAM advertised as DDR2-800 at 5-5-5-15 @1.8V. Heck, Mushkin has a popular kit that's advertised at 5-4-4-12 @1.8V. I'm not sure what you're talking about here.

 

[taltamir]

that is the exception. the vast majority of ram DDR2 and DDR3, all list the mhz and timing in large bold letters, the voltage is in the small print on the back of the box, or not listed on it at all and is in the manual. Users who don't KNOW to look for it often miss it.
And many motherboards cannot output the voltages required by a lot of those ram modules.

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: taltamir
that is the exception. the vast majority of ram DDR2 and DDR3, all list the mhz and timing in large bold letters, the voltage is in the small print on the back of the box, or not listed on it at all and is in the manual. Users who don't KNOW to look for it often miss it.
And many motherboards cannot output the voltages required by a lot of those ram modules.

Here's Newegg's inventory of DDR2-800 modules that are rated specifically for 1.8V.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...201259916288&name=1.8V

There are 62 of them. If you're referring specifically to 2GB modules, there are still 26 choices.

 

[taltamir]

which is a TINY fraction. Those are almost entirely made up of ram without a heat spreader who don't even LIST their timings, its just DDR2-800 RAM... and if you look at the detailed info it will say voltage: 1.8v and maybe CAS: 5 (instead of 5-5-5-18 or 5-5-5-15 or whatever)..
You keep on proving my point. I am not saying they don't exist, I am saying that you have to be aware of the voltage issue. If you search newegg SPECIFICALLY for 1.8v you are obviously aware of the voltage issue.

here is neweggs 2x2GB modules, sorted by rating, WITHOUT going into advanced search and selecting only 1.8v.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...4&bop=And&Order=RATING

Notice a pattern? almost all are over 1.8v or don't even specify. This is something to be aware of and be careful of if you are a purchaser.

 

[DSF]

Ok, I agree with you in general then. I thought you were basically saying it was impossible to find 1.8V DDR2-800.

This is what threw me:
"For example, DDR2-800 with 5-5-5-15 timings is with 2.2v.

2.2v is above the JEDEC spec which calls for 1.8v, you MUST have an overclocking board capable of overvolting the ram to get the advertising specs of DDR2-800 5-5-5-15, or loosen timings, or lower the mhz. And every single ram manufacturer out there does it. "

It's not true that 2.2v is required for DDR2-800, nor is it true that you have to have a board where you can adjust the voltage in order to use DDR2-800.

 

[taltamir]

ah, I was giving a SPECIFIC example... ofcourse 2.2v is not required for DDR2-800, 1.8v is...
it is just the module I was using as an example required 2.2v for DDR2-800.

 

[coolcolin09]

Are there any guides that can help me to set the RAM speed best to my CPU (in this case, the E8400)? Thanks for your helpful answers!

 

[Dadofamunky]

Originally posted by: magreen
Ddr2-800 will let you OC to 3.6GHz without OCing your ram, since your cpu has a 9x multi. That should do you nicely. Skip the 1066.

Nah, I disagree.

1066 gives you more headroom. Plus 1066 is hardly any more expensive now. Get the better stuff. You won't regret it.

 

[coolcolin09]

I would have gotten 1066, but the combo for the 800 and ATI 4870 was just too tempting. It was $250 all together before $50 rebates, lol. That means after everything, this RAM is free...not bad!

I may or may not upgrade sometime next year; but I personally don't think I'll be doing intense overclocking until I have a solid understanding of how everything works. This should do me just fine for a while. Thanks guys!