DDR3 help, please!

[Evenkeel]

Like another poster here, I think my brain is going to explode. I'm speccing a new build, and at the moment am planning to use Intel DX38BT motherboard, w/a (probably) QX9650 proc. (I'll be running the 64-bit edition of Vista Ultimate.) The great guys over on the General Hardware forum have been helping me w/parts, but are discouraging me from spending so much on a system. Ordinarily I'd agree, but I've had more systems than I can count, and I always went the mostly-frugal route--not budget, but never top-of-the-line.

For once, I'd like to be frivolous and build an expensive screamer (as you can tell from mobo and CPU choice). Which leads me to why my brain is about to ooze out of my ears: I want to use DDR3 RAM in the system. Yes, I know it is outrageously expensive compared to DDR2, and the difference may not be all that much. But right now, I just don't feel like being all that logical about this build--I want to go over-the-top.

I put Crucial RAM in my current build, and at the time wanted Ballistix but couldn't afford it, so I got their more prosaic RAM. This time, I thought I'd go w/Ballistix. I used the Cricial Memory Finder to match up the correct RAM for the DX38BT mobo, and I wanted to go w/4 GB total, but as two, 2 GB modules (keeping the other 2 slots open for a future possible jump to 8 GB.

Their Memory Finder gave me this: Crucial RAM. Okay, I thought Ballistix came wrapped in a pretty gold hs, but maybe I was wrong.

Then tonight, I was poking around the Crucial site a bit more, and came across this page: More choices. As you can see further down the page, there is the pretty gold RAM, and the model # starts with "BL", presumably for "Ballistix".

The problem here is that I want two, 2 GB modules. It looks like I can only get the Ballistix in 1 GB modules, which would of course fill all my slots, and probably be a waste down the road if I want to go to 8 GB. (I do still have some sanity about this build. Not much, but some.) I really only want the pair of 2 GB modules. And if it's not going to be the full-on Ballistix RAM, I'm not sure paying $560 for the non-Ballistix DDR3 kit makes a lot of sense.

Which brings me back to the great guys over at General Hardware. They want me to put DDR2 in. But another quandary is that, even tho the Crucual Memory Finder isn't giving me the two Ballistix modules I want, it says that all compatible RAM w/my DX38BT mobo is DDR3. DDR2 is not mentioned at all as being "guaranteed" compatible.

I only have the barest understanding of the timings, latency, etc., so I don't know if the non-Ballistix, but still DDR3 choice they offered me w/the two 2 GB modules is all that much slower than the actual Ballistix 1 GB modules. Let me show you the specs on each, and maybe you guys can tell me if there's any difference I would ever notice:

4GB kit (2GBx2)
Model #:CT2KIT25664BA1067 DDR3 PC3-8500 ? CL=7 ? Unbuffered ? NON-ECC ? DDR3-1066 ? 1.5V ? 256Meg x 64 Price: $559.99

2GB kit (1GBx2)
Model #:BL2KIT12864BA1608 DDR3 PC3-12800 ? 8-8-8-24 ? Unbuffered ? NON-ECC ? DDR3-1600 ? 1.8V ? 128Meg x 64 Price: $399.99

If I get the 4 GB kit, am I ever going to notice much difference? (Assume video editing, game playing--basically all the stuff I might use a really fast system for. Maybe not right away, but if I have the power at my fingertips, I will be tempted to use it.)

So what should I do?

 

[sutahz]

Hmmm, so you want an 'over the top' PC, but your buying an Intel X38?
You're buying an eXtreme edition processor, so most likely you will not need uber ram to reach a high FSB.
With that mobo you do have to buy DDR3, another mobo you could use DDR2.
Looks like the guys in general hardware didnt look up your mobo then apparently, or you're failing to tell us that they are also suggesting you get another mobo that takes DDR2 (looking at 2 @ newegg, ASUS and Gigabyte).
"but still DDR3 choice they offered me w/the two 2 GB modules is all that much slower than the actual Ballistix 1 GB modules."
"I only have the barest understanding of the timings, latency, etc., "
Bingo. The RAM isnt slower. Unless you push your FSB you don't need a mega awesome mobo (so in that sense the Intel is fine, but it req's ddr3). you can run your ram at 1600MHz lets say, while your cpu is on its 1333FSB (333MHz) and you gain nothing.
You're building an uber system w/ a 64bit OS and your only getting 4GB? all the more reason to be reasonable, get a X38 board w/ DDR2 and get the full 8GB. Get 8GB of DDR2-1066 and be happy. With all the money you save by going this sane route you can waste the money on that alienware 2880x800 monitor.

 

[Evenkeel]

Originally posted by: sutahz
Hmmm, so you want an 'over the top' PC, but your buying an Intel X38?
You're buying an eXtreme edition processor, so most likely you will not need uber ram to reach a high FSB.
With that mobo you do have to buy DDR3, another mobo you could use DDR2.
Looks like the guys in general hardware didnt look up your mobo then apparently, or you're failing to tell us that they are also suggesting you get another mobo that takes DDR2 (looking at 2 @ newegg, ASUS and Gigabyte).
"but still DDR3 choice they offered me w/the two 2 GB modules is all that much slower than the actual Ballistix 1 GB modules."
"I only have the barest understanding of the timings, latency, etc., "
Bingo. The RAM isnt slower. Unless you push your FSB you don't need a mega awesome mobo (so in that sense the Intel is fine, but it req's ddr3). you can run your ram at 1600MHz lets say, while your cpu is on its 1333FSB (333MHz) and you gain nothing.
You're building an uber system w/ a 64bit OS and your only getting 4GB? all the more reason to be reasonable, get a X38 board w/ DDR2 and get the full 8GB. Get 8GB of DDR2-1066 and be happy. With all the money you save by going this sane route you can waste the money on that alienware 2880x800 monitor.

The guys in General Hardware probably did suggest another mobo to use DDR2 with--I've been posting here and elsewhere for all sorts of different components for the past 2 weeks, so it's all kind of blending together. If there's any error, it's mine. I'm turning into a real space cadet here.

"You're building an uber system w/ a 64bit OS and your only getting 4GB? all the more reason to be reasonable, get a X38 board w/ DDR2 and get the full 8GB. "

I think I missed something--I thought Vista 64-bit could only see 4 GB.. It can see 8 GB?

"Hmmm, so you want an 'over the top' PC, but your buying an Intel X38?"

Please tell me what is wrong w/the Intel X38?

"get another mobo that takes DDR2 (looking at 2 @ newegg, ASUS and Gigabyte)."

I started looking at Newegg, but am getting confused--if not too much trouble, could you pop the links to those two mobos here, so I can look and compare specs? (Is the ASUS P5E LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard one of the ones you were talking about?)

Thanks for taking the time to go over this w/me.

 

[sutahz]

There's nothing wrong w/ the Intel X38. In the time I've been in the overclocking circle I don't recall anyone using an intel board. Maybe (we're) too snobby... I dunno. I heard once that intel boards are good in their own right, they just don't perform quite as good as products by ASUS, Abit, DFI, Gigabyte for example. Like I said, since your getting an QX you don't need a board that can OC super well (ie handle a high FSB, but even cheaper boards can handle 500MHz from the sound of it).
What's 'wrong' w/ the Intel X38 is it req's DDR3. In another thread the price difference between a 2x2GB kit of DDR3-1333 and DDR2-1066 is $330. Get yourself 8GB DDR2-1066, you would have spent $660 more then if you had chosen the DDR3 path.

GIGABYTE GA-X38-DQ6 $270+7.52
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128066

ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA $260+7.52
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813131227

ASUS P5E WS Professional $260+7.14
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813131236

ABIT IX38 Quad GT $230+6.61 ($30MIR availible)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813127033

DFI LanParty LT X38-T2R X38 $250+8
http://www.motherboardpro.com/...ket-775-ATX-p-405.html

If $330/660 isn't enough motivation, and you want to look at it from a purely performance persepective:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...display/ddr3-1600.html
"obviously since you want the best of the best go with DDR3"
Feel free to skip to the conclusion.

DX38BT review, kinda lackluster:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/...8BT-X38-Motherboard/p1

Originally posted by: jedisoulfly
Go ahead and skip to the conclusion if you like.
http://www.overclockersclub.co...atriot_viper_fin_ddr3/

HOLY COW!!! WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY THIS BEFORE JEDISOULFLY!!!!
http://www.overclockersclub.co...t_viper_fin_ddr3/5.htm
@1680x1050 (and any EXTREME system should operate at a resolution higher then this. Observe as resolution increases the differences in ram speed decreases?) the Patriot Vipers lead by a whopping 5fps or 1fps!!!!!!!!!!!! PHENOMENAL!!! CAN YOU TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 141 and 135FPS??? yeah I didn't think so, STFU n00b.
6/135=4.44% 6/141=4.26%. Isn't it strange that FarCry is the only real world app they used (kinda like they cherry picked it)? Yeah it benefits some from faster ram... why would they test an old ass game? Because they are sucking up to Patriot, parading the product to be better then it is so in the furture Patriot will continue to send them product to 'review'.
The conculsion is nothing more then a continuation of the BJ they are giving patriot. What? No CONS? HOLY COW LETS ALL BUY THIS PRODUCT. They bring up an increase in FPS in one game. An old game at that, doesn't that raise any red flags in that pea brain of yours? FarCry came out when 7900GTX was the king shit. In modern games (Crysis/CoD4), a 8600GT beats a 7800GT.... man how things change. Get your mind out of the P4/Athlon XP days, and into modern times.

With the CPU you have chosen you could easily overclock to a 400FSBx10 4.0GHZ (in most cases)
with a 400FSB your DDR2-800 would run at default speeds on a 1:1 multiplier
on the DDR3-1600 using a 1:2 multiplier it would run at default speeds.

WHY have the ram run double the FSB, WHY?!?!? You have yet to answer this question yet you repeat it.
He's buying a QX (probley), so he has multi's up to 60x from what I've read. 4000/266=15(multiplyer of 15x). So running DDR2-533 he could have 4GHz and have ultra l33t timings of 2-2-2-6 or whatever if he ponied up for some premium ddr2, hell would probley only need 1.6V, though 1.8V is the minimum I think.

"8gb in most general use would be over kill." But he wants an over the top system, who cares of 8GB isn't used! He didnt KNOW 8GB was recognized by Vista x64 (and XP x64 if it matters). Now he knows... I EDUCATED him, but I suppose you want to persecute me because I didn't answer his questions like a robot (only give him answers to the exact questions he asked).

"Just over a year ago DDR2 2GB kits were selling for the same price as the viper kit I listed before." Yet again you mention what you paid a year ago. We as a community are SORRY FOR YOUR PAIN. We are not talking about a year ago. We are talking about here and now, the most recent Intel chipset is the X38, and the X38 can take DDR2 or DDR3, and there is NO (in my opinion) advantage of going DDR3.

"IMO I would say 2GB in most cases is plenty" ya know what? That's probley correct, or at least is good from the cost : performance perspective, but he said he wanted 4GB (initially) and now your swaying him in the 2GB direction? So do you support people in absolution or not? The man say's he wants 4GB of DDR3, stand by him! IT'S YOUR DUTY, apparently.

"IF you want 4GB of memory the fastest DDR2 kit I found at newegg in stock is (I didn't search anywhere else) geil DDR2 1066 4x2GB $195+$5 for shipping" Why are you suggesting DDR2 memory? Isn't your job to answer the exact questions by the OP?

I want to use DDR3 RAM
I put Crucial RAM in my current build, and at the time wanted Ballistix but couldn't afford it(see cost is a factor, so maybe.. just maybe the OP IS IN FACT INTERESTED IN COST : PERFORMANCE considerations)
For once, I'd like to be frivolous and build an expensive screamer
QX9650 proc.
I want two, 2 GB modules.(2x2GB)
It looks like I can only get the Ballistix in 1 GB modules (he only wants Crucial Ballistix, so why are you suggesting Patriot RAM? ONLY PROVIDE HIM WITH THE INFO HE'S REQUESTING!)
maybe you guys can tell me if there's any difference I would ever notice:
DDR3 PC3-8500 ? CL=7 ? Unbuffered ? NON-ECC ? DDR3-1066
DDR3 PC3-12800 ? 8-8-8-24 ? Unbuffered ? NON-ECC ? DDR3-1600 (you didnt tell him if he'd see any differences in those 2 kits.... why are you not answering his specific questions!?!?!? Since he brought up DDR3-1066, DDR2-1066 is fair game, or do you have a rebuttle for that?)
If I get the 4 GB kit, am I ever going to notice much difference? (ok you got me, you CAN suggest a 2GB kit, but ONLY the one he's pointed out! According to your rules of replying to a post apparently).

Originally posted by: jedisoulfly
I love when people come on here and instead of giving the advice the person is asking about they try and talk them into or out of what they want.

 

[jedisoulfly]

done

 

[jedisoulfly]

done

 

[Evenkeel]

Originally posted by: sutahz
There's nothing wrong w/ the Intel X38. In the time I've been in the overclocking circle I don't recall anyone using an intel board. Maybe (we're) too snobby... I dunno. I heard once that intel boards are good in their own right, they just don't perform quite as good as products by ASUS, Abit, DFI, Gigabyte for example. Like I said, since your getting an QX you don't need a board that can OC super well (ie handle a high FSB, but even cheaper boards can handle 500MHz from the sound of it).
What's 'wrong' w/ the Intel X38 is it req's DDR3. In another thread the price difference between a 2x2GB kit of DDR3-1333 and DDR2-1066 is $330. Get yourself 8GB DDR2-1066, you would have spent $660 more then if you had chosen the DDR3 path.

Sutahz, first I want to thank you for all the effort you went to, putting up those links of mobos and reviews for me to look at. It was late last night when I read your post, so I was only able to give them a quick once-over, but I will go back and look at each in-depth.

I've gotten three basic reactions since coming to AnandTech and floating my tentative config:
-Intel DX38BT mobo: as you mentioned under your link to the mobo's review--lackluster, which seems to be most people's feeling about it. No outright hatred, but not any excitement.
-QX9650: Overpriced and unnecessary, but if I really want it...
-DDR3 memory: oh, boy, this one set the posts on fire. I had no idea (which I'll get to in a minute why I had no idea) there was such feeling about it. Don't get me wrong; I completely understand everyone's reasoning, and see the point about DDR2 instead. I did read the "Conclusion" part of the X-bit Labs review on DDR3, and understand their ambivalence.

Okay, this part is going to be a bit hard, but I feel I owe it to everyone who has been trying to help me. I don't really like to talk much about myself on certain levels, but w/the responses I've been getting, you guys need to know a bit more about me.

1) I'm very cautious. Some would say over-cautious. Intel seems "safe" to me. It's not necessarily cutting-edge in the way that components are viewed here--i.e. if I understand the general philosophy at AnandTech, it is, in part, to get a lot of performance, w/good components, w/out breaking the bank. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that.) I look at all those motherboards you listed in your links, and I see a lot of copper, and cooling tech, and stuff that high-end enthusiasts would appreciate.. which brings me to my next confession:
2) I've never overclocked anything. I want to, but until now have never been in a position to put together a system where I can do that. But the more I read here about all the specs behind the memory, and the motherboards, the more I want to retreat back to that "safe" Intel place (whether it really is safe is a mattter of opinion). Which brings me to:
3) I used an Intel board (925) and CPU (Prescott) in my current build, now 3 years old. At that time, when I came here for advice, a couple people implied I was crazy if I used anything other than AMD, because Intel just didn't have the performance specs. No, it didn't, and I agreed, but again, Intel was safe. And their tech support, for the few times I needed them, was better than good. The manual was good, the components were solid, and it all went together pretty well, for a first build.
4) Back to #1, all those other boards, all that copper, just scream (to me) "I am built for the enthusiast! If you aren't ready to jump in with both feet, don't buy me!" I know, it sounds stupid, doesn't it? I am enthusiastic, but I don't think I'm anywhere near you guys' level. And it will take me a lot of research to get there. And it won't happen anytime soon, which brings me to:
5) I need to build this system now. I can't go into the reasons, but it needs to happen now. I have realized, in reading everyone's posts, that to become an enthusiast worthy of the title, I need to get very serious about all this. I need to really frequent all the forums here more, and the overclocker forums elsewhere. I need to learn about each of the motherboards sutahz showed me, because they are all a little different. I need to read a lot of different opinions, and learn enough that I can eventually decide for myself what I am capable of building, and how far I want to take it. I'm excited about that, but again, for reasons undisclosable, that process will take me months.
6) The DX38BT coupled w/the QX9650 will allow me to begin playing a little w/overclocking--not much, but a little (according to the "Trusted Reviews" review of the board). Intel is a known quantity to me--unexciting, I know, but a place for me to begin. The board has all the ports I want; some of those other boards don't--most do, but some don't. The X38 sort of hits the "midline" for me, giving me the ports and slots I want (and actually do need) right now.
7) I said earlier that I had no idea of the feelings about DDR3 memory. This is due to my (now apparent) lack of education about the finer specifics of components. I've simply read about DDR3 being the future of RAM in such places as PC Mag, and figured okay, that's what a system takes now. I see now that it doesn't have to, and using it will cost from 2-4 times what DDR2 costs. When I first priced DDR3, the high cost didn't make an impression on me until I came here to ask about it, because 3 years ago 2 GB of DDR2 RAM from Crucial actually cost about $100 more than the DDR3 I've specced now. And ironically, a couple people back then were pushing me to buy the Ballistix (which I didn't do, as I said, since it cost more than my budget allowed at that time). I think when I came here to ask about this new build, that I was again going to get the advice of "yeah, sure, you should get the expensive stuff". Things certainly have changed a lot in 3 years.

One of my fears is that, if I plunge ahead anyway and ante up for DDR3 and the QX9650, and then run into a situation where I need advice, I won't be able to come back here because I was warned it was a bad idea. I know, that's stupid too, and insulting, tho I don't mean to be. I know you guys are bigger persons than that, and would probably look at me much as a benevolent parent would, after telling a child not to stick a fork in an electrical outlet, and the child does it anyway. (The upside is the child probably won't do it a second time.)

Maybe I just need to make this (apparently) dumb choice and see where it takes me. If I do, I hope you guys will understand that I need to make some mistakes on my own, before I can see the clear path.

And I hope I didn't embarass myself too much.

 

[sutahz]

It is your choice to make.
In my opinion the Abit and ASUS P5E motherboards dont look too extreme.
I could have tried to talk you out of the QX processor, but this is a memory forum and you want an over the top PC. The fact that you wont OC that QX on the other hand, is 'gut wreching' by its own right. A Q6600 can be clocked at 3GHz w/ no changes to Vcore/Vnb/Vddr, only to the FSB's freq (266->333MHz).
Do as you wish, but at least now you know the decision you are making.

1) which board is the physically built the best; Asus, abit and gigabyte are all good companies. I don't know of any motherboard manufacturer that produces its own capacitors/resistors/etc. So as none have 100% quality control over these 3rd party parts they are all about equal (intel included).

2) which company provides the best tech support; I've heard good and bad about different motherboard manufacturers so your best bet would be to find a article by cnet or the like who took a poll of many users and their experiences. Or an article on support by various companies.

3) which company is the most consistent about getting out BIOS and driver updates? If I move away from my admittedly self-perceived "safe" Intel place, which board/company is the most likely to let me dip my toe in the o.c. waters, without tossing me in the deep end and leaving me to drown?
I've heard Asus is good about BIOS releases...
It is a percieved safe place... but thats why Intel pays big bucks for marketing. So even while their P4's were getting smashed by Athlon XP's, people still bought comptuers w/ the little sticker "Intel inside". At the end of the day, everyone had a working computer and for the avg user, thats what really matters.

 

[Evenkeel]

Originally posted by: sutahz
It is your choice to make.
In my opinion the Abit and ASUS P5E motherboards dont look too extreme.
I could have tried to talk you out of the QX processor, but this is a memory forum and you want an over the top PC. The fact that you wont OC that QX on the other hand, is 'gut wreching' by its own right. A Q6600 can be clocked at 3GHz w/ no changes to Vcore/Vnb/Vddr, only to the FSB's freq (266->333MHz).
Do as you wish, but at least now you know the decision you are making.

You are very kind, and I thank you. I know my previous post was very dense, text-wise, but in my item #6 I mentioned that I wanted to begin playing a little w/overclocking--that "Trusted Reviews" article you pointed me to said it could be done, up to a point, w/the DX38BT. I thought those restrictions might work in my favor as an o.c. newbie, as I imagine the other boards are more flexible in the settings department when it comes to overclocking, and I can imagine going too far by accident and frying everything.

What I wanted to mention in the last post, but forgot, was that now that I have all this advice in mind from you guys, it had occurred to me that the motherboard is really not that expensive a component, compared to some of the other components. This should have been put in my item #5--once I educate myself on the things I need to know, I could change out the motherboard to something a bit more interesting. This could actually happen anyway as we get near the end of the year, and w/the Federal deadline of TV going hi-def early in 2009, I'll be needing to build a media center PC then anyway.

Yes, I know I got way off the topic of memory, this being a memory forum, but as your knowledge seems extensive, and as I have now "bared my soul" so to speak... Of all those motherboards you mentioned, and having read my concerns, which one do you think would work best for me? By "work best", I mean: 1) which board is the physically built the best; 2) which company provides the best tech support; 3) which company is the most consistent about getting out BIOS and driver updates? If I move away from my admittedly self-perceived "safe" Intel place, which board/company is the most likely to let me dip my toe in the o.c. waters, without tossing me in the deep end and leaving me to drown?

I've asked a lot of you, esp since this is the memory forum and I should have moved all this back over to General, but here we are. If you care to give a bit more of your opinion to the above, I will add it to my deliberations. Thanks again.

 

[lopri]

If you want to spend lots of money on your money and want to see a visible performance boost, the current best way is to buy SSD. (Solid State Disk) You will feel the snappiness immediately. Plus they make zero noise.

 

[sutahz]

Tried to send this to you via PM, but you have chose not to accept them so:
http://www.intel.com/products/...board/DP35DP/index.htm
Intel safety zone, should suit whatever overclocking you may try and get your feet with.
What does X38 have that P35 doesn't?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...1314%2CN82E16813121090

 

[Evenkeel]

Originally posted by: sutahz
What does X38 have that P35 doesn't?

Sorry about the PM--it's on now.

Okay, this isn't me trying to be a wiseguy--it's just a point-by-point comparison of some of the things that matter to me, to answer your question:
X38 has 2 rear eSATA ports on a native motherboard controller; P35 uses a backplane bracket to connect to an internal SATA port (I've read this makes a speed difference)--I will be making heavy use of eSATA (Already bought four Rosewill external enclosures that do eSATA/USB 2; have put a 750GB drive in one so far--works great off the native eSATA port on my big laptop). X38 has two PCIe 2.0 x16 slots; P35 has none. X38 has 8 rear and 4 front USB ports; P35 has 6 rear (not sure about front, prob at least 2)--I use a lot of USB ports, so this is actually a selling point for me.

OTOH, P35 takes DDR2 memory, is over $100 cheaper, and takes a CPU 1/4 the price of the QX9650. Interestingly, neither board has a PS/2 port for keyboard; that review you pointed me to on the X38 mentioned that, and said what do you do if you have BIOS problems and can't get into the BIOS settings w/a USB keyboard? That's a good question, and one I haven't seen answered yet.

Anyway, I have a few more days to think about all this before taking whatever plunge I decide to take. I can't thank you enough for all the time you've taken to help me. What I need to do now is start lurking in all the various forums here and try to learn what I should have learned before I started on this project.

 

[sutahz]

Sounds like the X38 is a clear winner for you then.
"P35 takes ... a CPU 1/4 the price of the QX9650." ? Both boards can accept the same cpu's.

As far as PS/2 mice and keyboards, of the 'scary' X38 boards I have linked above, every single one has a PS/2 port for a keyboard and all but Asus have a PS/2 port for a mouse.

I showed restaint the first 2 times I read your post.. but I gotta get it out of my system.
"P35 uses a backplane bracket to connect to an internal SATA port (I've read this makes a speed difference" I dont see how that could make a difference. SATA is 150/300MB/s, the most speed you'll get out of a hdd is probably around 65MB/s w/ 80MB/s at times (burst data rate is a synthetic figure by and far).
"X38 has two PCIe 2.0 x16 slots; P35 has none."
True, and X38 also has a x4 slot as well. P35 has PCI-E 1.0a (or w/e) and 1 x16 and 1 x4. PCI-E 2.0 is as much marketing as SATAII, except PCI-E 2.0 will show its usefulness first, if ever. Are you going crossfire or hacked-sli?
Get USB hub(s).
"neither board has a PS/2 port for keyboard" neither INTEL board (your safty zone).

I'd like to be frivolous and build an expensive screamer (as you can tell from mobo and CPU choice). Which leads me to why my brain is about to ooze out of my ears: I want to use DDR3 RAM in the system. Yes, I know it is outrageously expensive compared to DDR2, and the difference may not be all that much. But right now, I just don't feel like being all that logical about this build--I want to go over-the-top.

As you see now, there is nothing "screaming" about that mobo. The QX9650 isn't a screamer either, unless you overclock it. But then it can be argued for a lot of people, anything over 3GHz is mostly overkill. If you want DDR3 still, by all means get it.

Spending lots of money doesn't necessarily make your comptuer better, and certainly doesn't future proof it. As we know, the future is Nehalem and whatever AMD has cooking. Neither of which are s775.
But this is your build, your dream. You have to do what makes you happy.

 

[imported_wired247]

When I was first looking to build the system seen in my sig, I too was enticed by DDR3. I had the money to do it, but I realized how worthless it would be.

Processors are going to have to come a long way before DDR3 is really necessary.

Even if you are doing over 2000 MHz fsb you can still use DDR2 easily, and there is no guarantee that you will be doing so.

If you have a lot of money to burn, I highly recommend going with a nice raid setup, meaning... get a decent raid card, not onboard raid. Don't be scared... it couldn't be easier to set up.

I have no idea why you'd want so many external hard drives, but that's your business.

And if you really have a lot of money to burn, excess money is always well spent on graphics cards. X38 chipset plus crossfire could be a winning combo for you. But note, if you get the p5e board with a pciE raid controller, crossfire won't be an option.

And all the money you save going from DDR3 -> DDR2, you could easily get a second video card.


WTF... don't be scared of ASUS / Abit... they are easy to use and almost always successful at stock settings (at the very least) ...

 

[Evenkeel]

Originally posted by: sutahz
Sounds like the X38 is a clear winner for you then.
"P35 takes ... a CPU 1/4 the price of the QX9650." ? Both boards can accept the same cpu's.

As far as PS/2 mice and keyboards, of the 'scary' X38 boards I have linked above, every single one has a PS/2 port for a keyboard and all but Asus have a PS/2 port for a mouse.

I showed restaint the first 2 times I read your post.. but I gotta get it out of my system.
"P35 uses a backplane bracket to connect to an internal SATA port (I've read this makes a speed difference" I dont see how that could make a difference. SATA is 150/300MB/s, the most speed you'll get out of a hdd is probably around 65MB/s w/ 80MB/s at times (burst data rate is a synthetic figure by and far).
"X38 has two PCIe 2.0 x16 slots; P35 has none."
True, and X38 also has a x4 slot as well. P35 has PCI-E 1.0a (or w/e) and 1 x16 and 1 x4. PCI-E 2.0 is as much marketing as SATAII, except PCI-E 2.0 will show its usefulness first, if ever. Are you going crossfire or hacked-sli?
Get USB hub(s).
"neither board has a PS/2 port for keyboard" neither INTEL board (your safty zone).

"I showed restaint the first 2 times I read your post.. but I gotta get it out of my system."

I chuckled when I read this--you've showed restraint all thru my postings, which, due to my now-apparent ignorance, must be causing you some level of pain. You don't have to worry w/me--if you got something to say, just say it. Always. I appreciate directness.

""P35 uses a backplane bracket to connect to an internal SATA port (I've read this makes a speed difference" I dont see how that could make a difference. "

That's been bugging me too, and I've been trying to remember where I read it. The upshot, if I am indeed recalling correctly, is that eSATA is best connected to a native, built-in external port, rather than a bracket and a cable that connects to an internal SATA port. I wish I could remember more than that, and where the heck I read it.

"Are you going crossfire or hacked-sli?"

Can't decide. What do you think? I was just going to stick in that XFX board that the editors at PC Mag were wetting themselves over, for the time being, until I could get up to speed on what's out there, Crossfire-wise. And you've educated me once again: I didn't know you could hack SLI to work in the Intel X38. So far, on the Crossfires, what I've been reading has indicated that currently nVidia is in the forefront, both in price and performance. I would want DirectX 10, of course (are you rolling your eyes?), and on Newegg there are 31 Crossfire-supported, PCIe 2.0 x16, DX 10 boards. There are 8 different manufacturers of the boards w/in those parameters, but I don't know anything about them, quality-wise. If you have an opinion, feel free to share. If I end up going w/the DX38 board, and it's a good time right now to do Crossfire, I can change that graphics card spec to something else. If you aren't too weary here, suggest away.

""neither board has a PS/2 port for keyboard" neither INTEL board "

So out of curiosity, and from what that "Trusted Reviews" article said: How would you actually get into the BIOS if something got screwed up and the USB keyboard didn't work for some reason? The review said that Intel is on a crusade to get rid of legacy ports, but surely there must be some way to get around this issue if it ever came up (the BIOS issue)?

"Get USB hub(s)."

I did this--once. Never again. It fried the USB port on a printer. Don't ask me how it did it, no one could ever figure it out, and it was a Belkin powered hub, not some no-name. The parallel port on the printer still worked. This is my own personal eccentricity (yeah, my only one </sarcasm>), but unless it's an emergency, or something so minor that a hub would not matter, I will always plug directly into the motherboard ports.

I can't believe you've put up w/me this long--you get this month's AnandTech "I didn't kill the annoying n00b" award. Thank you.

 

[sutahz]

single 8800GT/3870 (8800GT 15.5% bettter overall, if only high resolutions were used, i'd think the 8800GT would win by more..?)
http://www23.tomshardware.com/...&model2=1060&chart=318

3870/2900XT (why do i make this comparison? because SLI/CF results dont have 3870)[3870 5.1% better)
http://www23.tomshardware.com/...&model2=1060&chart=318

SLI 8800GT / CF 2900XT (20.8% better)
http://www23.tomshardware.com/...&model2=1069&chart=378
As for hacked SLI drivers, a quick search didnt bring up any good results. X38 chipset may have a chip that blocks SLI from working at all..? If you really want to be frivolous buy 2 8800GTS's and if they work w/ hacked SLI drivers great, if not, at least it looks nice/expensive. At least your not being crazy frivolous and buying an 8800Ultra.


"How would you actually get into the BIOS if something got screwed up and the USB keyboard didn't work for some reason? " With anything in the world there's a chance something will get screwed up and you'll have to trash it or RMA it. There are a lot of what if's out there.

How do you know the usb hub fried the usb port on your printer? maybe the printer fried its own port..... maybe its just your printer screwed itself over while it happened to be connected to a hub. Maybe the printer used power from the usb cable to power a certain circuit board and used wall power for everything else and w/ other things connected to the hub the printer couldn't get the proper power and that caused the usb port to fail. If anything, always plug big devies directly into the mobo/off usb headers and small things (like thumb drives) into hubs.

This is how I see it. You came here to get advice on your proposed build. The census w/ us familiar w/ the technology is not to go the expensive route you had planned out. However, it's your build. It's better for you to buy what you think is best and be happy then to go w/ others suggestions and think to yourself "this is ok, but im sure it coulda been faster", that would be the worst.

"I would want DirectX 10, of course" nothign wrong w/ that. Just unless your running 4xAA or higher, DX10 won't look any better, even then it only looks a little better. As of right now DX10 is basically useless. A resouce hog that doesn't put out.