DDR3 Memory Differences

[Resound]

What is the performance difference between OCZ PC3-10666 ReaperX HPC EB and OCZ DDR3 PC3-10666 Platinum Edition?

 

[Ghost]

Unless your front side bus speed is 533 Mhz, which I highly doubt, which is what the PC3-1066 is rated to run at.....

It's going to slow down to your front side bus speed, which is probably running at 233.

So it doesn't really make much difference imo.

 

[DSF]

Why buy DDR3 right now?

 

[Resound]

To Ghost: The mobo that im getting is an ASUS P5K3 Deluxe and the CPU im getting is Q6600. Waht kind of DDR3 ram should i be looking at?

To DSF: This is because i think DDR3 will stay in the market for a long time compare to DDR2 as it came out 2003. Another reason is that i dont really want to spend money on upgrading for the next few years.

 

[sutahz]

The price difference between DDR2 and DDR3 right now is so big that if you bought a DDR2 mobo and DDR2 memory, with the money you saved (if you literally put it to the side)by the time DDR3 comes down in price you could sell/throw away the DDR2 mobo/ram and buy the DDR3 mobo/ram with that cash you set aside.

In my opinion, the performance difference for any ram these days is 0-2%. (Ok, not that anyone has pointed this out, but from what I've read, if you pay a high premium for high speed (MHz) along w/ the high premium for low latency you can actually increase your performance ~5%. Would you pay a huge premium (265% lets say) for a 5% increase in performance [pay $650 for a 300hp engine or $1,723 for a 315hp engine]?)
DDR3 is useless for the most part. What percent of us overclockers (not of the population, just the niche that is overclockers) go over a FSB of 533?? Honestly.....

Cheapest newegg DDR3-1333 2x2GB kit $530 (free shipping though!) (1333MHz=666MHz)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820220278

Cheapest newegg DDR2-1066 2x2GB kit $195 ($5 shipping) (1066MHz=533MHz)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820144110

$330 price difference..... its your call bro.

Step 'down' to DDR2-1000 2x2GB $115 (Free ship)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231145

and of course lets not forget about DDR2-800
Cheapest CL4 2x2GB set at newegg, $113 + 5ship (CL4 so you can loosen the timings for higher speeds)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820227270

"if you have the money, it's some serious $$, and you want to best possible performance then by all means get some DDR3" If by best possible you mean <1% better, I agree
"In my opinion, the performance difference for any ram these days is 0-2%."
DDR3 isnt faster (per clock) then DDR2, it simply operates at a lower voltage and is capable of faster speeds. DDR2-400 wasnt and isnt any faster then DDR-400. DDR2-1066 isnt any faster then DDR2-800 (though it runs 266DDR faster). DDR3-1333 isnt any faster then DDR2-1066 (though it runs 266DDR faster).

Maybe Resound doesn't care, maybe he wants DDR3 and thats that. Maybe he has a P2-450MHz cpu and 64MB 133MHz SDRAM, and now he wants top of the line everything for his next decade of computing.

Originally posted by: Resound
To DSF: This is because i think DDR3 will stay in the market for a long time compare to DDR2 as it came out 2003. Another reason is that i dont really want to spend money on upgrading for the next few years.

SDRAM is still in the market, DDR1 is still in the market. DDR3 isn't revolutionary, DDR3 is barely even evolutionary.

OCZ PC3-10666 ReaperX HPC EB 6-5-5-18 1.85V (1.9V EVP, WOW ocz, way to give some lee way!) kit does look l33t though.
OCZ DDR3 PC3-10666 Platinum Edition 7-7-7-20 1.8V (1.95V EVP)
GeIL Esoteria 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 5-5-5-15 1.9-2.5V

So if i get like a 4gb DDR2-800 right now and OC it, can i use them for like 5-6 yrs? (as in like not too out of date)

You have to choose a different motherboard though (which isnt a bad thing, you can even stick w/ Asus if you'd like). 5-6yrs? I won't even guess how much things will/may change in that ammount of time. But should you keep the computer for that long, I'm sure they'll work and be functional. If not, that's what lifetime warranties are for.

It doesn't matter what the future price of DDR3 is... the only price that matters is the price for the next week (im guessing, for Resound). Awesome if DDR3 comes down, only reinforces the price difference in the 4GB kits. That 2GB kit is out of stock. So if they were in stock, and he got 2 of them thats still 295x2=$590, so $60 (60/530=11.3%) more expensive.....
Hey Resound, do you have a 32bit or 64bit OS? Either way, 4GB is the min.

"would a 400x9 with a 2:1 would = 3.6 with mem @ 1600 no?" WHY?? Show me how running memory faster then the FSB is beneficial (Yes, F@H benefits as well as a few other programs, but best case Resound will run 1 or 2 DC progs). No Resound, DC programs dont earn you money nor are they fun (like unto games). 400x9 in 1:1 is DDR-800. As 450 is DDR-900. See why 1066(533) is more then(than?) enough?

"(as in like not too out of date)"
Do you have friends to impress or meet girls that think they know a lot about computer a lot? If you're not out to impress the avg user it doesn't matter. Even if you are out to impress somebody, tell a white lie and say you have DDR3-1333 w/ a ASUS P5K3 Deluxe instead of DDR2-1000 and a ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA (which snds more l33t).

 

[Sylvanas]

DDR3 is not just 'if you run a 533mhz FSB' thats what dividers are for, if you have the money, its some serious $$ and you want to best possible performance then by all means get some DDR3 however if you are more looking at 'bang for buck' then DDR2 is fine for now and really cheap for 4GB (which you could get for the same price as 2GB DDR3). But to answer the OP's question, the difference between those two kits is the cooling solution used and without seeing the specs on OCZ's site I'd say there would probably be a difference in latency.

 

[Resound]

So if i get like a 4gb DDR2-800 rite now and OC it, can i use them for like 5-6 yrs? (as in like not too out of date)

 

[jedisoulfly]

not worth my time

 

[Ghost]

I was confused about this recently too. Your Front Side Bus *data* rate for your P5K3 motherboard is 1333Mhz. To find the actual *clock* speed, you divide that by 4. That leaves you with a clock rate of 333Mhz..Your FSB is *quad* pumped....

The data rate of DDR2-800 Ram is 800. To find the *clock* speed for RAM, you divide by 2. So the actual *clock* rate of the DDR2-800 RAM is 400Mhz. DDR2 RAM is *double* pumped....

The clock rate is a primary consideration when looking to buy RAM for a Mobo. These are the numbers you need to worry about.

DDR2-667 RAM has a clock rate of 333Mhz (667/2) which would match your Mobo's FSB in a 1:1 ratio. So DDR2-667 RAM would work perfectly fine. And it's dirt cheap!

DDR2-800 RAM has a clock rate of 400 (800/2) which slighly exceeds your Mobo FSB rate, and would actually need to slow down to 333Mhz to work. So the DDR2-800 gives you some head room, and some room if you want to overclock your FSB speed.

DDR3-1333 has a clock rate of of 666Mhz. Twice what is the clock rate of your mobo, and therefore has to slow down a lot to run with it. Why pay for 666 when your system has to slow it down to 333?

While there would be no harm in buying DDR3-1333, as it might work if your mobo supported it, it's tremendously expensive, and gives you virtually no performance improvement.

Why pay an extra few hundred dollars for almost no gain? Like throwing money away.

If you never overclock, DDR2-667 would work fine. As it's very cheap, it's a great way to save a little cash. DDR2-800 is also very cheap, and gives you a little room if you want to overclock.

To attempt to address your question about RAM that will last a few years. The limitation here, is your FSB of your motherboard. It's default speed is 1333 *data* rate, with a *clock* speed of 333.
Faster and faster RAM will come out over the next few years, but that doesn't matter much, as they would still need to slow down to your Mobo FSB speed of 333.
You can overclock your FSB speed to greater than 333, you may get it to 400, making it a good match to DDR2-800, but you won't get it to 666.

 

[jedisoulfly]

deleted

 

[Ghost]

Originally posted by: jedisoulfly
I love when people come on here and instead of giving the advice the person is asking about they try and talk them into or out of what they want.

So you are the type of person who enjoys spending lots of extra money for virtually 0 gain?

I think we were just trying to help him understand what he has, and what's out there.

He can certainly spend hundreds extra on DDR-3 RAM for almost no performance benefit.

Might as well flush the money down the toilet as for the benefit he'll get.

 

[jedisoulfly]

deleted

 

[jedisoulfly]

deleted

 

[sutahz]

"What is the performance difference between OCZ PC3-10666 ReaperX HPC EB and OCZ DDR3 PC3-10666 Platinum Edition? "
"the performance difference for any ram these days is 0-2%"
Yet the jedi says "To give an answer to his original question that no one gave to him"
and for those 2 sets of ram specifically, I'd say more in the realm of 0.0677439%

"That's what happens with computer components most of the time." No, most computer components slowly go down in price.... not the huge drop in price DDR2 experienced and that DDR3 will no doubt experience.

"Not all DDR3 ram is a 0-2% gain some will be much greater."
Got some empirical data to back that up?

"Personally I think people are lame for spending 600+ on an ultra when you can get a gtx for much less and usually just overclock it." So why not try and help these people? Show them some facts, explain to them buying the most expensive thing isn't always the best?

"there probably isn't any real performance diff between the reaper and the regular kit"
Probably isnt??? A difference of CAS6 and CAS7 and your saying probley? Are you serious? serious serious?

"what does impressing anyone have to do with anything?"
So you've never done anything every to impress anyone? We don't know Resound's reasons for wanting DDR3. My guess, and still is, that he see's the banners proclaiming DDR3 to be the next messiah when it comes to boosting your computing experience, and guaranteed to bring your gaming to new levels of ecstasy. Oh and DDR3 is the latest (and "greatest") so it MUST be better. It runs at such high speeds.

"one year ago to the date my ddr2 800 2gb patriot (LLK)"
Why did you buy low latency memory? For the huge performance gains (no doubt advertised)? Because it would make you happy?

"450x9 2:1 = 4.0ghz with 1800mhz mem but will probably need a vcore increase."
Probably? What cpu is he buying... or did you make an assumption as well?

"I love when people come on here and instead of giving the advice the person is asking about they try and talk them into or out of what they want."
Yeah I'm sorry for trying to educate someone about something that they may or may not know about. If he posted "I want one of these 2 DDR3 kits and thats that" sure i'd still show him how bad of a deal DDR3 is then he'd say "i dont care, i'm getting me some DDR3" then i'd say "get the reaperz".

"There isn't any real need to buy DDR3 unless its a higher speed kit...1600 or higher."
Oh do share your reasoning for this statement.

Resound has expressed some interest in DDR2 by his 3rd post
"So if i get like a 4gb DDR2-800 rite now and OC it, can i use them for like 5-6 yrs? (as in like not too out of date)" So apparently he wasn't hell bent on DDR3.

"Although this is just one other persons opinion. On the conclusion he basically backs up my point about the price not being too much different than DDR2 kits one year ago."
WHO CARES, so you paid a lot for your DDR2, why should others pay a lot for their DDR3 when DDR2 is a perfectly good solution. It does not matter if DDR2 use to be expensive. All that matters right here and now is DDR3 is way expensive and DDR2 is very cheap.

You linked to ncix... so you also assume he's Canadian? So you assume he's Canadian and that he (well I assume he's a he, you may assume he's a she) doesnt care about the cost difference and just as notable, the performance differences between DDR3 and DDR2?
Are we/I so bad for assuming he's American and cares greatly about the cost differences between DDR3 and DDR2 and didn't know about the performance differences?

"You will have a ddr3 mobo and the option to upgrade in the future when prices drop."
How is having a ddr3 mobo advantageous? So its good to have a mobo that will rape you now but give you avg deals in the future? If he upgrades for Nehalem then he'll need DDR3 (i know, you WANT to jump on that as a reason to go ddr3 NOW), but by then hopefully ddr3 will be cheap, so buying expensive ddr3 now in no way prepares you for the future.

So DDR3-1600, remembering the reviews you read, were the gains real world or through synthetic benchmarks?
Is DDR3 the 'answer' for the next 5-6 years? Or do you think something else might come along, QDR memory...?
In his 2nd post I think he didnt know about the performance difference between DDR2 and DDR3, he knew the mobo he wanted req's ddr3 and so thats what he was going off of.
Since when is showing peple their options bad?
Who cares why ddr2 is so cheap, it is, thats what matters.
The fact he's asking about the performance difference in those 2 ddr3 kits shows he doesnt have a firm understanding about memory.
I gave him the advice he was looking for (me saying all memory is basically the same) and more. Information is power to make an informed decision.
"I understand where you are coming from I myself would not spend the money on DDR3 right now either." but you spent this kind of money a year ago on DDR2-800, why's that?
"Read some reviews"
DDR3-1600 v others. Go ahead and try and find your supporting article....
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...ddr3-1600_8.html#sect0
The thing is that according to the benchmark results we have just discussed, neither DDR3-1333 with extremely low timings, nor DDR3-1600 could offer us better performance than the good old DDR2 SDRAM
Whats that word that starts w/ O? I think it ends w/ wned.

"Another reason is that i dont really want to spend money on upgrading for the next few years."
Buying DDR3 now doesnt save him from upgrading in the future. Its a flawed statement.

 

[jedisoulfly]

deleted

 

[sutahz]

So until Resound replies to this thread on what he thinks of our debate, I want to side track a bit

Originally posted by: jedisoulfly
About 6 months ago I wrote a topic asking if anyone had tried to modify a freezone into an existing water cooling setup. Everyone just told me to stay away from those and gave me this and that about nothing I asked about. Now I see that coolit has the boreas which is basically the whole idea I had with the freezone. Yes people want to help but it seems they would rather say don't do that do this instead of giving the advice they are asking for.

Why didn't you follow your vision? Is this product selling good for CoolIT? Will it last a year or 2 in the market? Did you think of it for your personal use only or did you want to sell it nationwide, you and a 'pard up late making kits..?
What percentage of computers are watercooled? What percentage of businesses watercool? What percentage of home users watercool? How would you market to businesses? To home users? What would be your marketing costs? How would you cover insurance to businesses?

Why do you think major businesses upgrade computers every 2 to 3 years? Because statistically thats when hardware failures start to become a problem. How many businesses do you think really want/need a TEC? There is (I'm guessing) more private citizens interested in TEC's then businesses (what does your market analysis show?).
Whats stopping you from integrating a TEC into your watercooled loop? Do you have a TEC? Do you have a watercooled PC? What was the point of that original post? Was it to show how you were diswayed by others? How you didn't have the spine to stand up for what you believed in? What did you hope to prove by making that statement?
Maybe you should surround yourself with yes men... that way you're never wrong.

Do you have the capitol to start your own business? Wife (and kids)? Are you charasmitic enough (or have a partner who is) to get a bank to give you the loan? Do you have a business plan? If people "gave me this and that about nothing I asked about." why did you listen to them? Would you suggest the average person start up their own computer shop? Do you have an MBA in entrepreneurship?

So thats why people quote whole posts... so if the person gets proven wrong on every point and deletes their posts there is evidence of what they posted... lesson learned.

Originally posted by: jedisoulfly
It is not worth my time to explain my point to you anymore.
I have already agreed with you that DDR3 is not worth the money for the performance that is gained compaired to DDR2.
That does not mean no one should buy it.
It is not my place to tell someone how to spend their own money. I could care less if they spend too much.
Just cause you or I think its not worth the money does not mean others think that. Just cause or I do not think the 0-2% is not worth it does not mean no one else does.
The reason I deleted my posts was cause it started to get off the topic and I am trying to end it.
I'm done here.

You have/had 2 points. 1.) Let people spend money however they choose (which I fully agree with, but I can still share my views w/ them. They are going to do whatever they want in the end). 2.) DDR3 is faster (ie does make your computer faster when >DDR3-1600) but you have yet to show evidence of this view.

I vaguely recall you agreeing that DDR3 is not worth the money, but all your posts are edited so oh well.
Am I telling anyone how to spend their money or am I mearly passionate about exposing RAM for what it is?
I won't bother posting in your thread but consider this. If General Motors made 60,000 ImpalaGTX's with a price tag of $120,000 (actual cost of mfg'ing $24,735) and they sat on the lot because no one was buying them, and they kept reducing the cost until they started selling at a good rate, and that price was $32,999.99 would that prevent GM from continuing production the ImpalaGTX? Maybe.. maybe not. Sure, they'd LOVE to sell it for a 485% markup, but maybe w/ a 33% markup they can still make enough profit.
DDR3 sells for so much because they can. It's brandnew and people that want 'cutting-edge' don't care about cost to performance ratio's or they want the wow factor of having 'faster'(higher freq) ram then any of their friends/acquaintances. But should they ask a forum what DDR3 is better, and then they find DDR3 isn't any better and they can save a wad of cash (which could be spent in other area's, like hdds or video cards or food), then they can make an informed decision.

 

[jedisoulfly]

It is not worth my time to explain my point to you anymore.
I have already agreed with you that DDR3 is not worth the money for the performance that is gained compaired to DDR2.
That does not mean no one should buy it.
It is not my place to tell someone how to spend their own money. I could care less if they spend too much.
Just cause you or I think its not worth the money does not mean others think that. Just cause or I do not think the 0-2% is not worth it does not mean no one else does.
The reason I deleted my posts was cause it started to get off the topic and I am trying to end it.
I'm done here.