dead for now: possible 7600GS (7300GT?) 128MB $37.25 shipped

[Replay]

Thanks for running those benchmarks. I'm leaning toward this being an overclocked 7300GT. The 7300GT uses the same G73 core. Some of those apps may report the gpu specs, based on the name in the card bios, and other tools may be telling us what is really there.

The 3DMark2005 3827 game score is close to the 3974 scored by a factory underclocked Diamond X1650 Pro (500 cpu 270 ram) on a 3.2Ghz Celeron Conroe-L (400MHz fsb).
I'd expect a 7600GS to score much higher after fooling around with the GPUReview comparison tool.


7300GT
Core Clock: 500 MHz
Memory Clock: 500 MHz (1000 DDR)
Memory Bandwidth: 16 GB/sec
Shader Operations: 4000 MOperations/sec
Pixel Fill Rate: 2000 MPixels/sec
Texture Fill Rate: 4000 MTexels/sec
Vertex Operations: 625 MVertices/sec

1650Pro
Core Clock: 500 MHz
Memory Clock: 270 MHz (540 DDR)
Memory Bandwidth: 8.6 GB/sec
Shader Operations: 6000 MOperations/sec
Pixel Fill Rate: 2000 MPixels/sec
Texture Fill Rate: 2000 MTexels/sec
Vertex Operations: 625 MVertices/sec

7600GS
Core Clock: 500 MHz
Memory Clock: 500 MHz (1000 DDR)
Memory Bandwidth: 16 GB/sec
Shader Operations: 6000 MOperations/sec
Pixel Fill Rate: 4000 MPixels/sec
Texture Fill Rate: 6000 MTexels/sec
Vertex Operations: 625 MVertices/sec

The $25AR Buy.com 1650Pro scored 5372 in 3Dmark2005 when clocked to 648cpu/420ram(840ddr).
Your 7600 550core/700mem scored 4561.

 

[JWade]

if it uses the same core, thats why some other programs may report it as the 7300GT, the ATI x300, x500, and x600 (some but not all of the x600 family) all use the same core. Doesnt mean the x600 I had at one time was really an X600, it was. Its kinda like CPU's, different ones get binned for different speeds. Same with the GPU's. The other programs are simply reporting what the core is, and assuming its the 7300GT

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: JWade
if it uses the same core, thats why some other programs may report it as the 7300GT, the ATI x300, x500, and x600 (some but not all of the x600 family) all use the same core. Doesnt mean the x600 I had at one time was really an X600, it was. Its kinda like CPU's, different ones get binned for different speeds. Same with the GPU's. The other programs are simply reporting what the core is, and assuming its the 7300GT

Try GPUz

http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/

 

[jiffer]

I just got mine. It has a heatsink and fan. There are four Hynix HY5RS573225A FP-14 GDDR3 chips (which are rated at 700/1400MHz). The GPU is clearly labelled "G73 N-A2", which means that it is definitely a 7600 GS. I suspect that the confusion arises from a couple of things:

1) The "7300 GT" is actually based on the G73 (the 7600 GS GPU), not the G72 (which all the rest of the "7300" parts are based on). In other words, the 7300 GT is actually a 7600 part masquerading as a 7300 part, so it's no wonder there's confusion.

2) There is a heatspreader between the heatsink and the GPU which distributes the weight evenly across the GPU package (a very nice touch, I might add). I suppose if you pried the heatsink off the heatspreader and left the heatspreader affixed to the GPU (instead of removing both the heatspreader and the heatsink from the GPU), then you wouldn't be able to read the numbers on the GPU. By the way, there is white thermal compound between the heatspreader and the GPU, and also between the heatsink and the heatspreader.

By the way, I wouldn't call the heatsink and fan on this unit "tiny". First of all, I don't consider the monstrous ones to be "normal". Second of all, the G73 was designed to be a direct replacement for the 6600 so that video card manufacturers would not have to redesign their PSBs from scratch. The GeForce 6600 did not require a monstrous cooling solution, and neither does the 7600 GS (which is why it can be used in a fanless video card). I'd say that the heatsink and fan size are just about right.

Computer Geeks probably buys their merchandise from a distributor like Evertek. Maybe the "fanless" fiasco was the distributor's fault (or more likely, the manufacturer's fault) rather than the fault of Computer Geeks. The box for the fanless version looks exactly the same as the one with the heatsink/fan. Maybe they assumed they got the right parts from their distributor/manufacturer instead of opening every box and checking each one. Take a look at the following webpage :

http://www.evertek.com/viewpart.asp?auto=37594&cat=69

If you like this card, it's too bad that it's out of stock. If you're a reseller, there were about 150 you could have bought yesterday when they were available. Maybe you can buy the ones that people are returning.

 

[magreen]

Thanks for the great info jiffer. One question: if the G73 was used for the 7300GT also then how does G73 N-A2 identify this as a 7600GS? Unless that's what the N-A2 tells you? Thanks.

 

[mellondust]

Originally posted by: jiffer
I just got mine. It has a heatsink and fan. There are four Hynix HY5RS573225A FP-14 GDDR3 chips (which are rated at 700/1400MHz). The GPU is clearly labelled "G73 N-A2", which means that it is definitely a 7600 GS. I suspect that the confusion arises from a couple of things:

1) The "7300 GT" is actually based on the G73 (the 7600 GS GPU), not the G72 (which all the rest of the "7300" parts are based on). In other words, the 7300 GT is actually a 7600 part masquerading as a 7300 part, so it's no wonder there's confusion.

2) There is a heatspreader between the heatsink and the GPU which distributes the weight evenly across the GPU package (a very nice touch, I might add). I suppose if you pried the heatsink off the heatspreader and left the heatspreader affixed to the GPU (instead of removing both the heatspreader and the heatsink from the GPU), then you wouldn't be able to read the numbers on the GPU. By the way, there is white thermal compound between the heatspreader and the GPU, and also between the heatsink and the heatspreader.

By the way, I wouldn't call the heatsink and fan on this unit "tiny". First of all, I don't consider the monstrous ones to be "normal". Second of all, the G73 was designed to be a direct replacement for the 6600 so that video card manufacturers would not have to redesign their PSBs from scratch. The GeForce 6600 did not require a monstrous cooling solution, and neither does the 7600 GS (which is why it can be used in a fanless video card). I'd say that the heatsink and fan size are just about right.

Computer Geeks probably buys their merchandise from a distributor like Evertek. Maybe the "fanless" fiasco was the distributor's fault (or more likely, the manufacturer's fault) rather than the fault of Computer Geeks. The box for the fanless version looks exactly the same as the one with the heatsink/fan. Maybe they assumed they got the right parts from their distributor/manufacturer instead of opening every box and checking each one. Take a look at the following webpage :

http://www.evertek.com/viewpart.asp?auto=37594&cat=69

If you like this card, it's too bad that it's out of stock. If you're a reseller, there were about 150 you could have bought yesterday when they were available. Maybe you can buy the ones that people are returning.

This card should be back up soon. I just got off the phone with them about getting a new one and mentioned it showed that they were OOS on it. The guy said they took them off temorarily to sort through the boxes. Apparently they have 3 different versions of the card in the same box with the same skew. According to him they have fanless, big fan on little heat sink, small fan on big heat sink. I got the big fan on little heat sink and have seen pictures of the other two so I know they all exist. I wonder if they will put it back on with the ability to choose the type of cooling solution. I really wouldn't mind getting the same type of cooling solution as what I got the first time becuase the fan was so quiet.

 

[jiffer]

Originally posted by: mellondust
...Apparently they have 3 different versions of the card in the same box with the same skew. According to him they have fanless, big fan on little heat sink, small fan on big heat sink. I got the big fan on little heat sink and have seen pictures of the other two so I know they all exist. I wonder if they will put it back on with the ability to choose the type of cooling solution. I really wouldn't mind getting the same type of cooling solution as what I got the first time becuase the fan was so quiet.

That makes sense. I seem to have the one that has the "big fan on the little heat sink". The heatsink is about 3 inches in diameter and the fan is about 2 inches in diameter. Can you please post links to photos of the various types?

Originally posted by: mellondust
This card should be back up soon. I just got off the phone with them about getting a new one and mentioned it showed that they were OOS on it. The guy said they took them off temorarily to sort through the boxes...

Maybe Evertek (and other places like Pacific Geek) are also saying they are "out of stock" while they sort through their own inventories. This could be a widespread problem.

Originally posted by: magreen
Thanks for the great info jiffer. One question: if the G73 was used for the 7300GT also then how does G73 N-A2 identify this as a 7600GS? Unless that's what the N-A2 tells you? Thanks.

The 7300 GT is labelled with a model number beginning with "G73-VZ". Here is an example:

http://www.ixbt.com/video2/ima.../7300gt-scan-front.jpg

For the sake of comparison, the 7600 GT has a label beginning with "G73-GT":

http://www.ixbt.com/video2/ima...f7600gt-scan-front.jpg

"N-A2" seems to be a revision number. Among other things, it refers to a 90 nm manufacturing process. "N-B1" refers to an 80 nm manufacturing process.

Perhaps the fanless version of the 7600 GS has an 80 nm GPU instead of a 90 nm GPU. Or perhaps it doesn't make any difference. Did anyone here receive a fanless unit? If so, could you please check the label on the GPU?

 

[onza]

^ pics dead.

 

[onza]

So what are the geeks doing to remedy this issue?

 

[slashbinslashbash]

GPU-Z is reporting 7600 GS, G73 GPU, A2 revision, 90nm tech, 8 ROPs, Shaders 8 Pixel / 4 Vertex, memory GDDR3, 128-bit.

Originally posted by: jiffer
2) There is a heatspreader between the heatsink and the GPU which distributes the weight evenly across the GPU package (a very nice touch, I might add). I suppose if you pried the heatsink off the heatspreader and left the heatspreader affixed to the GPU (instead of removing both the heatspreader and the heatsink from the GPU), then you wouldn't be able to read the numbers on the GPU. By the way, there is white thermal compound between the heatspreader and the GPU, and also between the heatsink and the heatspreader.

By the way, I wouldn't call the heatsink and fan on this unit "tiny". First of all, I don't consider the monstrous ones to be "normal". Second of all, the G73 was designed to be a direct replacement for the 6600 so that video card manufacturers would not have to redesign their PSBs from scratch. The GeForce 6600 did not require a monstrous cooling solution, and neither does the 7600 GS (which is why it can be used in a fanless video card). I'd say that the heatsink and fan size are just about right.

Computer Geeks probably buys their merchandise from a distributor like Evertek.

I was initially afraid to take off the heatspreader, as it looked like it was attached (like on some CPUs) and I didn't want to harm the core. However, after reading your post I took the heatsink off again and the heatspreader lifts right off, apparently only being held in place by the thermal paste. There is indeed white thermal paste between the heatspreader and the GPU, but the bottom of the heatsink and the top of the heatspreader are clean as a whistle. I guess maybe they just missed putting it on my particular unit? Looking at the core, I can also read "G73 N-A2".

You are right, the heatsink isn't necessarily "tiny" but it is far smaller than the one pictured. The one that I received seems to be the one that everyone else got, with a heatsink about 3" in diameter with a 2" fan.

Also, apparently Evertek and CompGeeks.com are one and the same, but Evertek sells to resellers and Geeks sells to consumers.

Lastly, while the 7300GT and 7600GS both use the G73 core, the 7600GS has 12 pixel pipelines and 5 vertex units, while the 7300GT has 8 pixel pipelines and 4 vertex units. This is the defining difference between the two. They are both the same chip, but a 7300GT has some of the pixel and vertex units disabled (much like Intel disables some of the cache to make a Celeron). Everest, RivaTuner, and GPU-Z all show this chip as having 8 pixel and 4 vertex. That makes it effectively a 7300GT. RivaTuner even showed the location of the disabled units.

Now, it's definitely curious that the core appears to have the correct code for a 7600GS printed on top of it, and it's being sold as a 7600GS, yet the number of pipes is commensurate with a 7300GT. I wonder if there is something in the BIOS that is disabling the pipes? I can't find a BIOS on Forsa's site, and the "Driver Download" link goes straight to nVidia. I would try another vendor's BIOS, but I can't seem to find too many 7600GS's with 128MB of GDDR3...... and also I have been unable to turn up any other examples of 7600GS's with 8 pixel / 4 vertex.

I got the FedEx label from Geeks, but I haven't sent the card back yet. I am debating just keeping it. Looking around, it would appear that it's hard to find even a 7300GT at this price. Plus, it's for a Linux machine, and I'm not really planning on doing much gaming on it.... mostly just wanted the Nvidia card because their Linux drivers are so much better than ATI's. *sigh* dilemma.

Originally posted by: onza
So what are the geeks doing to remedy this issue?

They sent me a FedEx label for me to ship it back for a full refund.

 

[onza]

rgr that.

 

[jiffer]

Originally posted by: slashbinslashbash
...apparently Evertek and CompGeeks.com are one and the same, but Evertek sells to resellers and Geeks sells to consumers.

I just checked their contact information. Considering the fact they have the same address, it's safe to assume they're the same company. I had no idea.

Originally posted by: slashbinslashbash
Lastly, while the 7300GT and 7600GS both use the G73 core, the 7600GS has 12 pixel pipelines and 5 vertex units, while the 7300GT has 8 pixel pipelines and 4 vertex units. This is the defining difference between the two. They are both the same chip, but a 7300GT has some of the pixel and vertex units disabled (much like Intel disables some of the cache to make a Celeron). Everest, RivaTuner, and GPU-Z all show this chip as having 8 pixel and 4 vertex. That makes it effectively a 7300GT. RivaTuner even showed the location of the disabled units.

Now, it's definitely curious that the core appears to have the correct code for a 7600GS printed on top of it, and it's being sold as a 7600GS, yet the number of pipes is commensurate with a 7300GT...

Yes, that is definitely curious. But the video card industry has a way of defying our expectations.

When the G73 was released in 2006, NVidia stated that GeForce 7600 GS video cards would have the following features:
- 400MHz core clock
- 400MHz memory clock
- 128-bit memory interface
- 256MB of DDR2 DRAM
- manufactured in 90 nm process
- 12 pixel pipes
- 5 vertex shaders

Time has proven that the first five features are not set in stone. The fact that some GeForce 7600 GS video cards are *advertised* as having only 8 pixel pipes and 4 vertex shaders (I've seen several of them) suggests that the last two features are also not set in stone.

And of course, Forsa's style of heatsink is certainly not set in stone.

This leaves us with the question, what exactly is the "defining difference" between the 7300 GT and the 7600 GS? I have no idea.

Most but not all video cards based on the GeForce 7600 GS are advertised as having 12 pixel pipelines and 5 vertex units, and all of us would certainly like that to be the case with every single one of them. But it looks like GeForce 7600 GS video cards come in two different "flavors", whether we like it or not. While it is disappointing, perhaps it is not so out of the ordinary.



By the way, my card looks practically identical to the 8500 GT Premium that is pictured on Forsa's website:

http://www.geniman.com.hk/8500GT1.htm

EDIT: I've been testing my card. It works. It runs fairly cool (low 40s at idle), and according to the NVidia overclocking utility, the "optimal" frequencies are 607MHz GPU and 716MHz memory. I think I'll keep it. I needed a decent video card for less than $30 (nothing more specific than that), and this one fits the bill. My biggest disappointment is that the fan is loud.

I was previously using a GeForce 7200 GS in this computer. With the Forsa GeForce 7600 GS, the colors are much deeper and richer; however, the picture does not seem to be quite as sharp (but maybe it's just my eyes).

I'm getting conflicting results with RivaTuner and GPU-Z. (I'm not familiar with either of them; I just used them for the first time.) I can't tell whether the GPU is clocked at 400MHz or 500Mhz. The NVidia Frequency Utility reported a clock speed of 500MHz. Both programs report 8 pixel pipelines and 4 vertex units. Maybe that's why this chip can be overclocked by over 150% from its default speed of 400MHz.

Personally, I'd rather underclock it and put a passive heatsink on it, which is what I was expecting from the manufacturer. Oh, well.

 

[slashbinslashbash]

Originally posted by: jiffer
EDIT: I've been testing my card. It works. It runs fairly cool (low 40s at idle), and according to the NVidia overclocking utility, the "optimal" frequencies are 607MHz GPU and 716MHz memory. I think I'll keep it. I needed a decent video card for less than $30 (nothing more specific than that), and this one fits the bill. My biggest disappointment is that the fan is loud.

I was previously using a GeForce 7200 GS in this computer. With the Forsa GeForce 7600 GS, the colors are much deeper and richer; however, the picture does not seem to be quite as sharp (but maybe it's just my eyes).

I'm getting conflicting results with RivaTuner and GPU-Z. (I'm not familiar with either of them; I just used them for the first time.) I can't tell whether the GPU is clocked at 400MHz or 500Mhz. The NVidia Frequency Utility reported a clock speed of 500MHz. Both programs report 8 pixel pipelines and 4 vertex units. Maybe that's why this chip can be overclocked by over 150% from its default speed of 400MHz.

Personally, I'd rather underclock it and put a passive heatsink on it, which is what I was expecting from the manufacturer. Oh, well.

Hmmm. Are you using the DVI connection? What kind of monitor do you have? There ought to be no difference whatsoever when just in Windows (2-D). However, there are all kinds of ways to screw with your settings in Windows, and when you switch to a new graphics adapter, it might go back to the defaults. So if you had ever messed with your color depth, gamma, refresh rate, or other display settings with your old card, that would explain why the new card looks different.

The GPU clock speed changes dynamically depending on the application. When you're in Windows (2-D mode) it will run at 400MHz. In 3-D games (or when there's a 3-D window open, as you can do in ATI Tools) it will change to 3-D mode and bump up to 500MHz.

 

[WT]

I'm still interested if I can buy the fanless card. Reason why: I'm building a rig with as much chrome as I can possibly put in it, with silver cabling and a lot of white LED lights (think a disco ball and you'll be close). So I wanted to paint the copper heatsink with a chrome hi-temp paint and see if it fit the overall scheme. Its not easy finding a card with a silver PCB, so this was my only option to add some flash to the video card.

 

[mellondust]

Originally posted by: slashbinslashbash


They sent me a FedEx label for me to ship it back for a full refund.

How long did it take them to e-mail you the FedEx label. I talked to them yesterday about replacing mine and have not gotten it yet. It seems like it would be something that would come right away.

 

[slashbinslashbash]

Originally posted by: mellondust

Originally posted by: slashbinslashbash


They sent me a FedEx label for me to ship it back for a full refund.

How long did it take them to e-mail you the FedEx label. I talked to them yesterday about replacing mine and have not gotten it yet. It seems like it would be something that would come right away.

Did you get the RMA email from Geeks? I got that (actually two of them) first, not more than an hour after I got off the phone. The FedEx label (e-mail from a fedex.com address) arrived about 4 hours later.

 

[onza]

Dam it, I think I got a DOA...

I guess it's time to send it back and get the "full heatsink" one... if they get there "XXXX" figured out.

 

[mellondust]

Originally posted by: slashbinslashbash

Originally posted by: mellondust

Originally posted by: slashbinslashbash


They sent me a FedEx label for me to ship it back for a full refund.

How long did it take them to e-mail you the FedEx label. I talked to them yesterday about replacing mine and have not gotten it yet. It seems like it would be something that would come right away.

Did you get the RMA email from Geeks? I got that (actually two of them) first, not more than an hour after I got off the phone. The FedEx label (e-mail from a fedex.com address) arrived about 4 hours later.

Had to call them again. The guy I talked to the first time didn't send the stuff, but the second time I got it an hour after I talked to someone. Now to see how long it takes to get a new one.:thumbsdown:

 

[mellondust]

Originally posted by: onza
Dam it, I think I got a DOA...

I guess it's time to send it back and get the "full heatsink" one... if they get there "XXXX" figured out.

Thats too bad!

What does yours do? Does it even turn on? Mine was all scrambled with english and chinese characters at the boot up and windows would only work in safe mode. Anything else and windows would crash. Even in safe mode though the colors were all off.

 

[onza]

mellon - no video, black screen. Won't even Post..... I pop'd in a different card = video.

/shrug.. lol

 

[onza]

Here's an update - I called them waited on the line for 10mins listened to the most annoying repeating voices ever!

So here's the update - Got the Fedex label took all of 1hr to get to my inbox, printed it out, and they are sending me a heatsink ONLY video card, they noted in the order that they should open the box and look for a heatsink only version. So i'll report back once I get the new video card.

onza

 

[onza]

Here's an update

I got a new video card since mine was DOA

picture of Gpuz

It reads as 7600gs and has 12pipes.

This version has samsung memory chips and takes up 2 slots in the back. The heatsink even though they said they'll look for a HEATSINK only video card, stilll has a fan, I might add that it's A LOT quieter than the previous video card everyone recieved eariler.

Onza

I will take pics of the video card if anyone is really interested.

 

[I4AT]

Originally posted by: onza
Here's an update

I got a new video card since mine was DOA

picture of Gpuz

It reads as 7600gs and has 12pipes.

This version has samsung memory chips and takes up 2 slots in the back. The heatsink even though they said they'll look for a HEATSINK only video card, stilll has a fan, I might add that it's A LOT quieter than the previous video card everyone recieved eariler.

Onza

I will take pics of the video card if anyone is really interested.

Weird, looks like you got a different core than most people, your clocks are also different. Is that memory 600mhz/1.2ghz effective, or 300/600? Have you overclocked or is that stock?

 

[Replay]

Originally posted by: onza
Here's an update... I got a new video card since mine was DOA...
...It reads as 7600gs and has 12pipes.

Could you pass along some 3DMark benchmarks, with your system specs? Still wonder if all the pipes are working.

Strange for a 7600GS card that it takes two slots, and it still has a fan.

 

[pbroussard]

Received mine a week or so ago, the thing was in a skimpy box, shipped in a padded envelope. Box had a dent on one end, closer inspection shows 2 surface mount resistors knocked off. Card does not POST.... waahhh