*DEAD* Western Digital 120GB SE 8MB Cache $58 - Being Honored!

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John P

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,426
2
0
to get the rebate, do you send in the acknowledgement letter, packing slip, the email confirmation, or all three?

In my experience, and to play it safe, to get the rebate you need one piece of paper showing when you ordered (invoice, email confirmation, etc..) and one piece of paper showing you actually received the product (packing slip).
 

jebus

Senior member
Jun 9, 2000
229
0
0
Well got mine today also! UPS scheduled to deliver yesterday on the 7th, but typical slow service UPS delayed it until today. Can't wait to try it out!
 

Nessal

Senior member
Oct 13, 2002
380
0
0
For those of you that sent the rebate...did you but out the whole sticker on the box or did you just peeled the sticker off?
 

rocadelpunk

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2001
5,590
1
81
i'm sending in that paper which said "this is not an invoice" that i got from dell, an online thing of my order, a cutout of the whole proof of purchase/capacity label, prolly make copies of all of them, and the shipping slip
 

vfdfs2

Member
Jan 1, 2001
142
0
0
Finally have the time to tear open the static bag, remove the hdd and install it. Is it me, but i got a freaking defective drive. The drive would not register pimary master, but would only register as slave. Manual changed the pin, no reg. Pin on slave, reg. Pin on master, no reg. 80-pin cable swap, no reg.
My drive just doesnt like Master.


 

Nessal

Senior member
Oct 13, 2002
380
0
0
I think I know what your problem is....when my jumper was on master, it would take 5 minutes to detect the drive...there is another setting for master which is single drive...instead of the jumper going up and down...its horizontal...try that....
 

LotusNotesGuy

Senior member
Apr 13, 2002
264
0
0
I got one of the OEM versions of this drive in about ten days from the day that sale started. I was happy with how quickly it came.

I followed this thread and want to warn everyone to be sure to send in the right rebate form. My best understanding is the one you need references the PACKING list, NOT the barcode or whatever on the oem box which is the other rebate form. By now I am sure every knows this. I got the right one in the thread off this board.

But there is more to the story about the quality of Dell's customer service and a stunt they pulled.

Since some people wrote in this thread they had received credit so I called Dell for that in the middle of all the hubub. They told me to call back again AFTER getting the drive.

I did, after 4 people and 30 mintues with their time consuming and frustrating phone system, on hold and automated call transfers, I got a very rude customer service rep, whose manager actually butted in on the line without even introducing herself. In that conversation she said she would fax the rebate form to me.

To make the afternoon even more interesting, she faxed the wrong form. WHen I tried to call her back and her assistant said she refused to take the call. Eventually I got a much higher up manager who interceded and said he would have a "serious chat with her", apologized and sent me a 10% stackable coupon good on anything supposedly.

Setting all that aside for whatever it worth, I have heard I am not the only one Dell supplied the wrong rebate form to.

So while much has been written already in this thread, BE WARNED. This just happened last week. They are STILL not giving out correct information and I see a huge number of fellow ANANDTECH members ordered this drive.

I haven't opened the shrinkwrap yet so I don't know how many platters it is.

Supposedly Monday I am expecting that Sony drive so many ordered as well I got it for 281.52$, no tax, no shipping.

Honestly, I don't know what it is with Dell. They go from hot to cold customer service-wise , irregardless of the issue or product. Other times I have had the most polite easy chats and discounts approved instantly on combining deals on sales. I would still buy from them again but the effort is more than it should be.
 

kami333

Diamond Member
Dec 12, 2001
5,110
2
76
Anyone know if the shipping/billing address and the address for the rabate have to be the same? I'm going home for winter vacation in less than 6weeks then going aboard so I wouldn't want it to get to school when I'm not there.
 

K-squared

Golden Member
Nov 1, 1999
1,386
0
0
kami333 - two options I can think:

1) include a letter explaining the situation, and include a phone number at your current address where they can call and verify the new address;

2) call Dell - have them add your [new] address as a secondary shipping address on your account, and request that they send out a letter/invoice with the updated address....

In any event, call the 800 number listed on the rebate form and ask the rebate fulfillment center what would (and would not) be considered acceptable under the terms of the rebate.


Originally posted by: kami333
Anyone know if the shipping/billing address and the address for the rabate have to be the same? I'm going home for winter vacation in less than 6weeks then going aboard so I wouldn't want it to get to school when I'm not there.
 

LotusNotesGuy

Senior member
Apr 13, 2002
264
0
0
Kami333:

It was posted earlier that dell has an "Executive customer service dept" for shareholders and whomever else I don't know or something along those lines.

If you have issues with the rebate or other people have had CSR or service issues, here is an interesting option:

I am told by people at dell this special dept. can be VERY responsive, up to and including, swap outs, and I have even heard of someone keeping a whole system or two for free after a prolonged situation Dell screwed up by sending out the wrong hardware. They got to keep both the old hardware and the new supposedly.

More to your problem, is that I am told this dept has helped regular customers in the past quite often, the hurdle there, is getting through Dell's phone system and layers of CSR's and the zillion people with the title of manager to get to someone who knows how to get you there.

Some people I have heard get referred right in, others have to fight their way in. Some get the address and write and find that best. It's such a mammoth company.

A place for you and others to go not many know about for help
 

kami333

Diamond Member
Dec 12, 2001
5,110
2
76
Guess it's time to go back and reread some replies then. I was pretty good until the 7th page or so, then I started skipping posts, then started skipping pages by the time I got to the 900th post
The form doesn't say anything about it so I'll guess I'll try giving Dell and/or WD a call.

Out of curiosity, did everyone get their drives already?
 

LotusNotesGuy

Senior member
Apr 13, 2002
264
0
0
kami333:

It's possible I got that info on the executive dept off one of the other boards I am a member of. Its well kept secret but I think it's because they also handle shareholders and executives or whatever. I suspect their "CRM ticket" so to speak for each item/issue someone complains about probably can be seen or reviewed by alot of people, possibly even rated at the annual meetings, which are public and quite large.

They don't do anything directly right away from the stories I hear, its like an appeals sort of process, but when they do something, sometimes its been really good for the customer. I have had my issues with them though so by no means am I pushing Dell at all, I just like their deals like everyone else.

Not that you havent done this type of thing before , but BE sure to include a copy of EVERY scrap of email,rebate, and print screen you can get, and a chronological log with name and extension and content of discussion. With 900 posts any printsreens or screen shots or forms you need I am sure you can get. Good Luck
 

Jackal&Cash

Member
Oct 24, 1999
152
0
0
Finally took the drive out of the box. Huh, the drive look exactly as my OEM one. same as MDL: WD1200jb-75CRA0. Don't all retail drive have the jumper setting on the lable? Mines sure dont have it. Does your drive have the jumper setting on it?
 

T2T III

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,899
1
0
Originally posted by: Jackal&Cash
Finally took the drive out of the box. Huh, the drive look exactly as my OEM one. same as MDL: WD1200jb-75CRA0. Don't all retail drive have the jumper setting on the lable? Mines sure dont have it. Does your drive have the jumper setting on it?
In my experience, the 80 GB and 160 GB "SE" drives had the jumper settings on the drives.
 

Jackal&Cash

Member
Oct 24, 1999
152
0
0
Originally posted by: K-squared
How many people that ordered the OEM version, got drives with 60GB platters????

Does it really matter? How could u tell which have 40 and 60 platters? According to tomshardware it said that the LBA is one way of telling and the other is the manf. date. My drive was dated 10/22/02 and the LBA is 234375. So my drive is made after September so do I have the 60 platter one or not?

From Tom's site

"the "old" model has 234.375 billion; the latest model has 234.442 billion. An alternative is to look at the manufacturing date - models dated starting September 2002 are most likely the ones that have 60 GB per platter."

BTW I have the retail
 

K-squared

Golden Member
Nov 1, 1999
1,386
0
0
jackal&cash - here's what I had posted a few pages back....
  • The harddrive I received "appears" to be the three-platter version. The placard on the harddrive lists the drive as a Malaysia manfactured drive (LBA 23437500), with a build-date of 16 Oct 2002.

    So, doesn't anyone else find it odd that those [here] reporting two-platter drives have had May-June build-dates, and nearly everyone with October build-dates are reporting three-platter harddrives? Given that the statement ".... An alternative is to look at the manufacturing date - models dated starting September 2002 are most likely the ones that have 60 GB per platter. " from Tom's Hardware "appears" to be incorrect, is it plausible that [he] got the LBA parameters backwards????

    Quote from Tom's Hardware:

    Those who are interested in the new 120 GB model should be on the alert, because this drive is available at the store in two versions: one with the previous inner mechanisms and three 40 GB platters, and another one that is technically the same as the WD2000 tested here, but with two 60 GB platters. The new model has higher performance capabilities, so if the prices are the same, then go for the newer model. The model number of the new drive doesn't allow you to identify which is which, so we recommend that you take a look at the total number of sectors (indicated on the drive as "Drive Parameters"): the "old" model has 234.375 billion; the latest model has 234.442 billion. An alternative is to look at the manufacturing date - models dated starting September 2002 are most likely the ones that have 60 GB per platter.

If you look back through the posts here and at Fat Wallet, the majority of people receiving harddrives with October manufacturing dates were receiving 40GB platter drives - *IF* the information listed on Tom's Hardware is 100-percent correct.

Originally posted by: Jackal&Cash
Does it really matter? How could u tell which have 40 and 60 platters? According to tomshardware it said that the LBA is one way of telling and the other is the manf. date. My drive was dated 10/22/02 and the LBA is 234375. So my drive is made after September so do I have the 60 platter one or not?

From Tom's site

"the "old" model has 234.375 billion; the latest model has 234.442 billion. An alternative is to look at the manufacturing date - models dated starting September 2002 are most likely the ones that have 60 GB per platter."

BTW I have the retail
Originally posted by: K-squared
How many people that ordered the OEM version, got drives with 60GB platters????
 

K-squared

Golden Member
Nov 1, 1999
1,386
0
0
Okay, let me go find my previous post on this....

Originally posted by: ylim11
Why you need a 60gb per platter one? What is the difference?


Look at my last paragraph in the repost below....
 

K-squared

Golden Member
Nov 1, 1999
1,386
0
0
Edited and amended from a previously posted reply, a mere 40 messages back....

----------
For those of you that "appear" to have the two-platter version of this drive, does the placard on your harddrive match the placard that is shown in the Tom's Hardware review of the WD2000JB harddrive - better secondary view of the WD2000JB harddrive....

or does it more closely match one of the following placards in these 'views' of the WD1200JB harddrive????

Placard type 1

Placard type 2

You will note in the second picture of the WD2000JB, that the serial number is WMACK1032153. I've noticed that the serial number in all the WD1200JBs I've looked at, have a serial number that includes one numerical digit (eg. WMA8C264xxxx). Now this is purely speculation, but what if the serial number decodes as follows:

W - Western Digital
MA - Malaysia
CK - production facility
1 - production run
032153 - individual unit number

If Western Digital is producing the JB Special Edition series harddrives at several locations, it's likely they would only shutdown one production facility at a time, to retool - thus resulting in an overlap in manufacture dates between the two versions of the same drive. Again, this is just speculation, but possibly the serial number may in some way indicate which harddrives are the two-platter versions of the WD2000JB drive. And then again, I could simply be full of.... However, the current "focus" seems to be on using the LBA listed on the harddrive's placard, to determine 40GB versus 60GB platter versions of this drive....

Yet when you review earlier reviews of the WD1000JB and WD1200JB harddrives, both versions of the "placard" have shown-up - in reviews written well before the (speculated) release of the 60GB platter drives. Or were they....????

Here's an example of the placard believed to have been used on the 40GB platter drives (review dated 05 Mar 2002):
Western Digital WD1200JB With 8 MB Cache: Outperforms SCSI Drives - image 1 (appears to have LBA: 23437500; manufacture date 2001);
Western Digital WD1200JB With 8 MB Cache: Outperforms SCSI Drives - image 2 (LBA and manufacture date unreadable).

Yet this earlier review of the [then] new WD1000JB and WD1200JB hardrives have placards thought to be in use with the newest 60GB platters drives, which shows jumper settings for configuring the drive (note review dated 20 Nov 2001):
New Performers From Western Digital: 100 GB Hard Disk With 8 MB Cache, Plus A New 120 GB Drive - image 1 (LBA and manufacture date unreadable);
New Performers From Western Digital: 100 GB Hard Disk With 8 MB Cache, Plus A New 120 GB Drive - image 2 (LBA unreadable; manufacture date 2001).

But what truly makes me question whether LBA 234441648 actually designates the newer 60GB platter harddrives is the following image from this same November 2001 review (review dated 20 Nov 2001):
New Performers From Western Digital: 100 GB Hard Disk With 8 MB Cache, Plus A New 120 GB Drive - image 3. In this image you can clearly see the LBA number "234441648", as well as the 12 Sep 2001 date of manufacture!. The placard on this harddrive also appears to have the Western Digital model number WD1200JB - 00CRA1 - although I am looking at these images on an Inspiron 15" LCD screen. Furthermore, in looking at an even older review of the WD1000BB, it too has the placard type that is being assocaited with the 60GB platter harddrives (review dated 26 Sep 01):
Western Digital WD1000BB - Taking Grand Prize! - image 1 (LBA for WD1000BB; 14 Jul 2002 date of manufacture).

Regardless, there are clearly examples of both placard types *AND* LBA numbers appearing WELL BEFORE Sep 2002.

And let's also look at this from a "logical" perspective. LBA refers to the physical locations on the harddrive's platter(s) or what is commonly referred to as "addresses" (see definitions below). So does it stand to reason that with fewer platters there should be more address locations, or fewer address locations? Not knowing "how" Western Digital defines the addresses on their harddrives, if they simply cataloged all their addresses (initially) by platter (eg. P1-0, P1-1, P2-0, P2-1, P3-0, P3-1), changing from a three-platter design to two-platter design would reduce the base addresses by 1/3 - which is a fairly large number. Such an addressing system is relatively inefficient when using very large harddrives, due to the unique cylinder-head-sector addresses requiring a larger number of parameters to be defined for each block address on the harddrive.

Now if we assume that the addresses are cataloged simply with some sort of numerical code (eg. 00000001, 00000002, 00000003, etc) corresponding to a section/sector of the harddrive/platter, the relative reduction in the number of physical addresses the harddrive would have to define would still be reduced, but not by near the amount resulting from the previous example using an inefficient addressing system. So if you're not using this "ineffificient" addressing method, why would there be any change at all - I mean 120GB is 120GB, right?

Well, yes - 120GB is 120GB, but the amount of physical space required to store 120GB is based on both the space to store the data, and space used to separate the tracks of data. When a harddrive is "formatted", you lose a portion of the harddrive's capacity to two (2) primary things: 1) the space required to record how the drive is formatted; and 2) the space required to write the tracks the data will be written within.

Let's say you take a piece of blank paper. Since you're horrible at writing in a straight-line when no lines are present, you take your #2 pencil and draw nice, thick, dark lines to write between and keep your lines looking straight. As you get to the end of filling-in that paper with information, you realize you're going to be about one line too short. So you resort to writing on-top of one or more of the last few nice, thick dark lines - knowing that even if part of a letter is unreadable because the cross-line on the "e" super-imposes on-top of the line (making it look like either an "e" or "c"), you will be able to figure out which letter it is, based on the adjacent letter(s) which combine to form the word (eg. "the" versus "thc"). Unfortunately you cannot do this with computer data, since the data is stored electronically as binary code of "1s" and "0" ("ONs"and "OFFs"). So a portion of the platter surface must be dedicated to defining the tracks within which the data are stored.

Basically, small electrical fields on the harddrive's surface arrange the magnetic particles on the platters surface to create this binary code which represents the written letters, numbers, and digits that make-up the words, text, and graphics stored on the harddrive.

So, if we were to try to graphically show how the tracks (exclamation points) and data (numbers and letters) are arranged, it would look something like this, with the "0s" representing track "zero", the "1s" representing track "one", the "2s" representing track "two", etc., and the exclamation points representing the "lines" between the tracks of data - something like this:

!0!1!2!3!4!5!6!7!8!9!
!0!1!2!3!4!5!6!7!8!9!
!0!1!2!3!4!5!6!7!8!9!
!0!1!2!3!4!5!6!7!8!9!
!0!1!2!3!4!5!6!7!8!9!
!0!1!2!3!4!5!6!7!8!9!
!0!1!2!3!4!5!6!7!8!9!
!0!1!2!3!4!5!6!7!8!9!
!0!1!2!3!4!5!6!7!8!9!
!0!1!2!3!4!5!6!7!8!9!

If we now take binary data from each of the three platters, where the binary data 0-9 are from platter number 1, A-J are from platter number 2, and a-j are from platter number 3, any given track could look like this:

!0!1!2!3!4!5!6!7!8!9!

!A!B!C!D!E!F!G!H!I!J!

!a!b!c!d!e!f!g!h!i!j!

If we count the number of exclamation points (which represent the track "boundaries"), we get 11 spaces lost on each platter to record 10 binary digits - or a total of 33 spaces lost on each platter to record 30 binary digits (52.38-percent lost). When we increase areal density to the two-platter level, we get the following:

!0!1!2!3!4!5!6!7!8!9!A!B!C!D!E!
!F!G!H!I!J!a!b!c!d!e!f!g!h!i!j!

Now if we count the number of exclamation points (which represent the tracks), we get 16 spaces lost on each platter to record 15 binary digits - or a total of 32 spaces lost on each platter to record 30 binary digits (51.62-percent lost). Thus increasing the areal density to the two-platter level results in an efficiency gain of 0.768-percent (0.00768) for the same amount of stored data.

The difference between LBA 234441648 and LBA 234375000 is 0.0000284283, or 0.00284283-percent. Not having *any* clue to the number of tracks, sectors, etc., (or how many address locations - "LBAs) would be gained through this efficiency, it should be expected that there would be a small, but measureable reduction in the LBA addresses that results from increasing areal density and the resulting reduction from three- to two-platter design. Hence it is my proposal, that the two-platter 60GB versions of the Western Digital WD1200JB are encoded with LBA 23437500 - not 234441648 as has been reported.


Thus this should result in a relative insignificant - but none-the-less measureable - reduction in address locations. Therefore, there should be fewer NOT more LBA adresses with the reduction in the number of platters.

And I still don't buy the arguement that there is no performance difference between the two- and three-platters versions of this harddive.

It seems logical, that the higher areal density of the two-platter drives would equate to faster read/write speeds since the heads have less distance to travel in reading/writing each data bit, as well as in traveling between read/write tasks on separate areas of the disks. It also stands to reason, that mixing two- and three-platter versions within a raid-array, would create a performance hit, since the two drives could not read/write at the same relative rate due to the different relative positions of the read/write [heads, as well as the difference relative read/write] locations on the two different platters.... [edited text from prior post]


Definitions:

CHS (Cylinder, Head, Sector) Addressing ? An inefficient method of referencing the sectors on a harddrive as a collection of unique cylinder, head and sector addresses. Each block on the drive will have a unique cylinder, head and sector address.

LBA (Logical Block Addressing) ? A method of addressing the sectors on a harddrive. Addresses the sectors on the drive/platter as a single group of logical block numbers instead of cylinder, head and sector addresses. It allows for accessing larger drives than is normally possible with CHS addressing.

Reply question posted by: K-squared
Hey KavMan - can you look to see if there is a major difference in the serial number (as listed externally on the retail box) for the four (4) harddrives? I'm curious as to whether the serial number listed on the bottom of the box would also identify the two- versus three-platter harddrives.....


Originally posted by: KavMan
I have 4 WD 1200JB's

1 - 24 Feb 2002 - LBA: 234375000 - Rev A00

2 - 09 May 2002 - LBA: 234375000 - Rev A00

3 - 16 Aug 2002 - LBA: 234441648 - Can't find a Rev # - This drive has pictures of the power connector and jumper settings that the other 3 doesn't have and also it has WD1200JB - 00CRA1 instead of ther other three that has WD1200JB - 75CRA0

4 - This is the drive Dell sent - 15 Oct 2002 - LBA: 234375000 - Rev A00
 
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