DEAD: Westinghouse 37" 1080p HDTV LCD (NEW)

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Imyourzero

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2002
3,701
0
76
Originally posted by: BIGFOOTPI
well, I have never known anyone that would rather have their low res games playing in a small window in the middle of the screen with black all around it on their big 37in screen just to avoid scaling.
Its funny we are going back and forth about a comment neither of us made and to this point still are not 100% certain of what exactly he was referring to. I could only go by the default definition/common topic reasoning of 1:1, which is usually referring to a true 1920x1080 source's pixels being mapped to the displays native pixels "1:1".

I just always assumed everyone that had a need to avoid scaling just set that in the nvidia or ATI properties. I haven't encountered a consumer TV display (not referring to a PC monitor only) that would shrink a lower res down to 1:1 in the middle of the screen on its own. I would be interested to know of any ones that do..
Anyway- after your last post I now understand what you meant.
No problem.

Oh sorry -- were you guys referring to my post? If so, I apologize for not clarifying...

Of course the Westy does 1920x1080 in a 1:1 manner, because that's its native resolution. Just like any other LCD running at its native resolution, whether that be 1280x1024, 1680x1050, etc. Each pixel in the native resolution of 1920x1080 is displayed to a corresponding pixel on the panel, which makes for a very sharp picture.

Notice that on most LCD monitors, when you apply a lower resolution in Windows than the monitor's native resolution, things (like text) tend to get blurry and graphics lose some sharpness and definition. This is called interpolation, and some monitors are better at keeping things sharp than others. When you switch to a lower resolution, it doesn't usually use 1:1 automatically (if it did, you'd have a perfectly sharp display in the center with black bars all around and most people wouldn't like that). Rather, it "blows up" the smaller pixel area to fill all of the available pixels that are normally used when operating at the native resolution. So you still occupy the full area of the monitor's panel, but it's really operating in fill mode rather than 1:1.

So yeah, what I was referring to was scaling...now like I said, for desktop use, most people aren't going to want to run a lower desktop resolution in 1:1 because of the black bars that would surround the desktop. They want their icons/text/whatever to be bigger and deal with the reduced image quality of fill mode. But for games, especially older console games and what not, a lot of people DO like to utilize 1:1 in order to avoid detail loss and keep things nice and sharp as they were intended to be.

For example, I rented Resident Evil 4 (PS2 version) and popped it into my PS3. I'll be honest -- at first, it looked like crap. Things were very blurry and ran together. It was playable, but by no means beautiful. I then read about the PS3's ability to run older games in 1:1 mode so that they would look better...I guess by default it was using fill mode. I'm not sure what resolution RE4 was coded to run at, but it doesn't look that great at 1920x1080. So I switched to 1:1 mode. I got the black bars and the game window became smaller, but it looked a heck of a lot better.

Same goes for original XBOX games. I've played them in fill mode on the Westy, and it's great that to play on such a large screen but they don't look nearly as sharp as I remember them being on my old 27" CRT. If I could run them in 1:1 mode on the Westy, they would look better but the game window would be smaller.

For PC gaming, I don't see many people running older games in 1:1 mode either. Sure, your copy of Doom might have been limited to 320x480 or whatever, but chances are you're gonna use fill mode and live with some detail loss rather than playing the game in a tiny window in the center of your big monitor. And I'm not even talking about games as old as Doom...I mean even games that only supported 1600x1200 are typically played in fill mode rather than 1:1.

Now here's where the important part comes in...some monitors are able to do 1:1 for anything coming into them, regardless of whether or not the source can do it. So if your device (like an XBOX or PS2) doesn't do 1:1 on its own, the monitor can take care of that for you. The Sharp 32" 1080p TV that I owned for a while was able to do 1:1 (as well as fill and aspect modes). So when gaming on that unit, I was able to run older console games at their original resolution (480p or whatever they supported) without the display being stretched. Other monitors are able to do this also, such as the BenQ FP241W, HP W2408h, Dell 2407WFP and 3008WFP, etc. But the Westy doesn't do 1:1 on its own AFAIK. This isn't a big deal if you are playing PC games (since you can use the graphics driver to force 1:1) or PS3 to play older games (since the PS3 also apparently does 1:1) but like I said in my original post, if you're playing older console games like XBOX/PS2/GameCube, they will always play in fill mode. Some games fare better than others, though...for example, Burnout 3 seems to lose a lot of sharpness, but Half Life 2 doesn't seem terrible. Then again, if I was playing Half Life 2 I'd rather play it on PC where the graphics would be a lot sharper anyway.

To further complicate things, some monitors only do 1:1 through certain inputs, so make sure you do your research if having a monitor that will do 1:1 natively is important to you.

I guess I'll stop typing now, since if this gets much longer I doubt people will bother to read it. I hope I wasn't telling you things you knew all along; I was merely trying to clear up any confusion regarding the Westy's ability to do 1:1. I think you were both right to some extent, but somehow ended up on different pages...BIGFOOTPI, you are correct that people wanting to avoid scaling for PC apps can set that in the graphics properties. But my comment about the Westy's inability to do 1:1 was referring to console games and other (non-PC) sources, so if it's important to you, make sure your device can do 1:1 before it's sent to the monitor.

On a side note, I hope my unit is shipped soon. The order status has been "Sent to Warehouse" for almost 2 days now. I want my shipping confirmation dammit! Can't wait to get that bad boy to work and be more productive!
 

GeezerMan

Platinum Member
Jan 28, 2005
2,145
26
91
Quote: "I guess I'll stop typing now, since if this gets much longer I doubt people will bother to read it."...

Yeah, good info, but I had to take two naps and walk the dog in the middle of it...:laugh:
 

imported_BS

Senior member
Mar 8, 2005
375
1
81
Ive had a 37" and now a 47" Westy while they both had their quirks they are still both in working order. Knock on wood.
 

jzodda

Senior member
Apr 12, 2000
824
0
0
But the Westy doesn't do 1:1 on its own AFAIK

Are you certain of this? In the Nvidia control panel I have "Use my display's built in scaling" selected.

I don't play many old games and I certainly am no expert but I installed Fallout on my machine the other day which plays I believe in 640x480 native or 800x600. I am sure you know the game and know that its 11 years old.

When I loaded up the game the black bars you speak of were present around the monitor with the game in the middle part.

If I select "Fill" on the remote it fills the screen and does not look all that sharp. When I select "standard" the black bars return and the game moves back to the middle of the screen and its sharp and look good.

Wouldn't that suggest that the Westy's do 1:1 on their own? I don't have this SE model I have the W3 model but if mine does this shouldn't the SE do it as well?
 

Bobalude

Member
Apr 21, 2004
92
0
66
This may be a n00b question, but I wanna check. Can a TiVo box be hooked up to receive both OTA or Cable channels in place of the usual built-in tv tuner or renting a cable box from the cable company?

And I'm not familiar with TiVo, does the box still decode channels without paid subscription? i.e. If I don't care for recording or any features, could I just buy a used tivo box to decode channels without any recording features?
 

chazzzer

Member
Nov 1, 2005
110
0
0
Originally posted by: Bobalude
This may be a n00b question, but I wanna check. Can a TiVo box be hooked up to receive both OTA or Cable channels in place of the usual built-in tv tuner or renting a cable box from the cable company?

And I'm not familiar with TiVo, does the box still decode channels without paid subscription? i.e. If I don't care for recording or any features, could I just buy a used tivo box to decode channels without any recording features?

I'm not a TiVo expert, but I'm pretty sure the answer is no. If you don't pay a subscription on a TiVo, it's a brick.

I think what you're looking for is a VCR. Remember those? They have built-in tuners that will pass the tuned output through the composite outputs (or even S-video output on an S-VHS VCR). There are other external tuners that will do this too, some of which will even scale the input signal and output it to VGA. I have an old Viewsonic NextVision N4 that will do this, and as I recall it looked pretty good on my old 19" RGB monitor. I see several on eBay for about $50 right now. The problem with these solutions is that they input (and thus output) only standard-definition 4:3 video, and this monitor is a 16:9 monitor. That means you'd have big black bars on the left and right sides. Also, the deinterlacer and scaler in this model are not very good.

You can find external HD tuner boxes that would do everything the ones mentioned above do, plus they'll tune 16:9 HD signals too. They probably have much better deinterlacer/scaler units than the monitor does. In my search to find the model number of the Viewsonic N4 that I own, I noticed that there are a couple of Viewsonic HD12 tuners that output through DVI or VGA available on eBay for under $150. I'm sure that there are a number of others from other manufacturers as well.

However, most people are buying these for use as computer monitors. If you wanted to pay $150+ more to get video onto it, you'd be buying a more expensive unit with a built-in tuner, right? So, if you're going to have it connected to a computer anyway, just buy a PCI HD tuner card and then use your computer as the deinterlacer and scaler to get the video onto the screen. Computers excel at this. Even older ones, if the video card is new enough to support hardware decoding of HD signals. It's not uncommon to be able to pick up a PCI HD tuner card for under $50 these days.

And if you're buying this just as a TV, you really should be looking at a more expensive unit with a built-in tuner. They're not that much more expensive, and you'll probably be happier in the long run.
 

chazzzer

Member
Nov 1, 2005
110
0
0
Has anybody's monitor actually shipped yet? I ordered mine on Thursday, then was told by buy.com on Monday that it had shipped. FedEx says that the "package data was transmitted to FedEx" on Monday at 11:30 a.m., but there's been no update in about 60 hours. Is anybody's monitor actually in-route?
 

Imyourzero

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2002
3,701
0
76
Originally posted by: jzodda
But the Westy doesn't do 1:1 on its own AFAIK

Are you certain of this? In the Nvidia control panel I have "Use my display's built in scaling" selected.

I don't play many old games and I certainly am no expert but I installed Fallout on my machine the other day which plays I believe in 640x480 native or 800x600. I am sure you know the game and know that its 11 years old.

When I loaded up the game the black bars you speak of were present around the monitor with the game in the middle part.

If I select "Fill" on the remote it fills the screen and does not look all that sharp. When I select "standard" the black bars return and the game moves back to the middle of the screen and its sharp and look good.

Wouldn't that suggest that the Westy's do 1:1 on their own? I don't have this SE model I have the W3 model but if mine does this shouldn't the SE do it as well?

Sure, it's possible. No, I'm not certain, that's why I said "As far as I know" But now that I think of it, I'm not even sure that I have ever tried to play older PC games on this thing! I do remember playing some of my favorite XBOX games, which were always in fill mode because they were running independently of the nVidia driver. So maybe what you say is true...maybe I'll try to test that this weekend. It's also possible that some units have 1:1 and some don't, depending on the firmware (similar to the BenQ PF241W).

As for the SE doing it, it may or may not. I was under the impression that the SE was a slightly less feature-rich model than the older 37W3 as far as inputs and what not...but I have no idea if lacks any of the menu options of the 37W3 or if the firmwares differ.
 

GeezerMan

Platinum Member
Jan 28, 2005
2,145
26
91
Originally posted by: chazzzer
Has anybody's monitor actually shipped yet? I ordered mine on Thursday, then was told by buy.com on Monday that it had shipped. FedEx says that the "package data was transmitted to FedEx" on Monday at 11:30 a.m., but there's been no update in about 60 hours. Is anybody's monitor actually in-route?

Yeah, I got mine yesterday. It's great as a PC monitor, OK as a HDTV display. Contrast levels are not as good as your better displays, which is to be expected. I'm happy with it.
 

Imyourzero

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2002
3,701
0
76
Originally posted by: chazzzer
Has anybody's monitor actually shipped yet? I ordered mine on Thursday, then was told by buy.com on Monday that it had shipped. FedEx says that the "package data was transmitted to FedEx" on Monday at 11:30 a.m., but there's been no update in about 60 hours. Is anybody's monitor actually in-route?

Mine was shipped yesterday, and I have a tracking # and tracking details from FedEx.

I had to write Buy.com customer service and confirm that my order had gone thru, though. Order status was showing "Sent to Warehouse" for over 2 days, but it finally went through yesterday. I think it's near El Paso at the moment.
 

CalebRockeT

Golden Member
Jul 14, 2003
1,143
13
81
My original estimated delivery date was today, so I requested the day off to sign for it. Unfortunately, the tracking information wasn't updated until this morning. It arrived at the warehouse last night and has just begun it's journey to me. New estimated delivery date: 9/23. Well, I guess I have all day to mess around now. >:\
 

Dposcorp

Diamond Member
May 10, 2002
5,342
39
91
Just a FYI - I have 4 Westys, 32" (720P), 37", 42", and 47". (1080P for these)
All are refurbs.
I bought the 32" and 37" a year ago. I was able to purchase a cheap 5 year in-home extended warranty, transferable too, but haven't had to use it yet.
They worked so well, that I sold the 32" and just bought a 42" and 47" Westy. (again with the warranty)

They are working great, and have done 1:1 pixel mapping via VGA and a DVI to HDMI cable at 1920x1080.

They may look worse in the store next to a Sony or Samsung that costs twice as much, but what I get them home, peoples jaws drop.

Just my.02.
 

BudAshes

Lifer
Jul 20, 2003
13,920
3,203
146
How does this thing look sitting in your living room. It looks kind of ugly from the picture but it is hard to tell what it looks like irl.

edit* maybe someone could post a picture of it in their living room?
 

NitroTurtle

Member
Jun 3, 2004
123
0
71
Want to know how to get it to ship quickly? Just try to cancel your order!

I ordered one last Thursday night, then had a change of heart in the morning and decided to try to cancel it. At the end of the day Friday, I received and email stating that they were unable to cancel my order because it had already shipped, along with an email with a tracking number. No tracking details showed up however, until Tuesday. According to Fedex, the unit was picked up on Monday, and is currently on the way.

So apparently they have a system in place to allow orders to be processed amazingly fast, but yet are unable to cancel them even when they haven't shipped yet. Oh well, it's not a huge deal, and I'd like to see what this thing looks like anyways. But, I'm not sure what the hell I'm going to use it for considering I already have dual 27's. Maybe I can use it for an excuse to build a new machine.

 

Imyourzero

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2002
3,701
0
76
Originally posted by: NitroTurtle
Want to know how to get it to ship quickly? Just try to cancel your order!

I ordered one last Thursday night, then had a change of heart in the morning and decided to try to cancel it. At the end of the day Friday, I received and email stating that they were unable to cancel my order because it had already shipped, along with an email with a tracking number. No tracking details showed up however, until Tuesday. According to Fedex, the unit was picked up on Monday, and is currently on the way.

So apparently they have a system in place to allow orders to be processed amazingly fast, but yet are unable to cancel them even when they haven't shipped yet. Oh well, it's not a huge deal, and I'd like to see what this thing looks like anyways. But, I'm not sure what the hell I'm going to use it for considering I already have dual 27's. Maybe I can use it for an excuse to build a new machine.

Can't you just refuse shipment? Not sure how much of a PITA it would be to get credited if you did that, but I've heard of people doing that to "force" a refund which would be nice in this case considering Buy.com's return policy says that they won't accept returns on 27"+ televisions.
 

Bobalude

Member
Apr 21, 2004
92
0
66
anyone consider the Westinghouse 42" (also 1080p) VK-42F240S from Costco for $699 over this one as a primary PC monitor? The extra 5" of screen size plus higher contrast ratio spec looks tempting.

I'm wondering if there are any downsides to going w/ a screen 5" larger (42" vs 37") as a pc monitor if I go with the 42" one instead of this?
 

aircooled

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
15,965
1
0
I'm can't buy another Westy. I have the 32" and the image retention is brutal. My on-screen guide is burned in, the CNN logo is burned in, the 4:3 lines are burned in. I keep hearing that LCD can't have burn in, but my 32" Westinghouse has burnt in items on the screen.
 

Imyourzero

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2002
3,701
0
76
Originally posted by: Bobalude
anyone consider the Westinghouse 42" (also 1080p) VK-42F240S from Costco for $699 over this one as a primary PC monitor? The extra 5" of screen size plus higher contrast ratio spec looks tempting.

I'm wondering if there are any downsides to going w/ a screen 5" larger (42" vs 37") as a pc monitor if I go with the 42" one instead of this?

Yep, if you plan on sitting less than 3-4 feet away from it!

Originally posted by: aircooled
I'm can't buy another Westy. I have the 32" and the image retention is brutal. My on-screen guide is burned in, the CNN logo is burned in, the 4:3 lines are burned in. I keep hearing that LCD can't have burn in, but my 32" Westinghouse has burnt in items on the screen.

Really? What model do you have? I haven't had any problems with IR on mine, nor have I heard of that being a problem with Westy units.
 

unbot

Member
Dec 17, 2005
41
0
0
i bit. awesome deal i couldn't resist...

so what's the best way to connect this monitor from an older evga 7900gt card? dvi to dvi or dvi to hdmi? does it matter if it's through a single link or dual link dvi cable?

can't wait to set this thing up!

 

Cdubneeddeal

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2003
7,476
3
81
So what I gather about this from what I read so far is this wouldn't make a good primary TV?
 

Imyourzero

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2002
3,701
0
76
Originally posted by: Cdubneeddeal
So what I gather about this from what I read so far is this wouldn't make a good primary TV?

Considering it lacks a tuner and was designed to serve as a monitor, no it probably wouldn't be the best TV. I guess it depends on what your definitioni of "good" is. If it were me and I only wanted a TV and had no need to use it for other purposes, I probably wouldn't be looking at the Westy. There are a lot of good 720p TVs at Sam's/Costco/etc. that would do a great job, and you wouldn't have to pay shipping or worry about damage in transit.
 

Piblokto

Member
Jan 15, 2001
172
0
0
I've had this monitor for over a year. My best tech purchase ever. I use it as a PC display, a gaming TV (hooked up to Wii only so far), and as a TV. It shines for computer use, and is adequate for the other uses. By "adequate" I mean looks good, but not as good as sets optimized for TV. I strongly believe anyone who gets this intending to use it primarily as a PC will not be disappointed.
 

CalebRockeT

Golden Member
Jul 14, 2003
1,143
13
81
Mine was just delivered this morning. I'm playing some Tiger Woods 09 on it in 1080p, and I'm very pleased with it overall. I have looked it over and I don't see any dead/stuck pixels, so I feel good about that.

I'll post back with more impressions after further use.
 

Imyourzero

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2002
3,701
0
76
Got mine today too, thankfully the box was in good shape!

My co-worker was so impressed he ordered one within 15 minutes of seeing mine. He just bought the 28" Hanns-G less than a month ago and said he ordered the Westy because he wants to take the Hanns-G home...but I know the real reason he ordered it was because my monitor absolutely dwarfed his...Peanus Envee anyone?
 

GeezerMan

Platinum Member
Jan 28, 2005
2,145
26
91
Originally posted by: Imyourzero
Got mine today too, thankfully the box was in good shape!

My co-worker was so impressed he ordered one within 15 minutes of seeing mine. He just bought the 28" Hanns-G less than a month ago and said he ordered the Westy because he wants to take the Hanns-G home...but I know the real reason he ordered it was because my monitor absolutely dwarfed his...Peanus Envee anyone?

I have been using mine for a few days now. I'm still amazed using it as a PC monitor. I find for OTA HDTV use, I get a better picture by using my PC HDTV tuner card instead of running an external HDTV OTA box. I get better color adjustments in the ATI CCC. You don't get that almost 3D look that you do with the better LCD HDTV that has a better contrast, but it's still very nice.
 
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