Deal reached on auto bailout

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
Wait a moment.

"protect the taxpayer by ensuring that only financially viable firms receive financing"

and

The loans are designed to stabilize U.S. automakers through March 2009, at which time the automakers must show they are financially viable."

It can't be both. Either we are giving the money to 'financially viable' firms, or we are not. How can you protect my tax money by ensuring that it only goes to financially viable firms if you give them the money now and ask them to prove they are viable in three months from now?

Shhh... obviously YOU are the one without "common sense" and Dari is just smarter that you...

Obviously it was a political statement. Do you really expect these politicians to know anything about finance/economics? Then again, people like you know nothing about the political economy.

Yes, I do expect the people I give the purse strings of the world?s largest budget to should know at least the most basic principles of economics. Failing that be able to use simple logical deduction to realize that both of those statements can?t be true.

They are the elected leaders you put in power. They are professional liars with time constraints. They only thing they're good at is spending other people's money. And the worst thing is you keep sending them back to the seats of power. So you are to blame, not them.

Want better leadership, elect better leaders.

Yeah, like more Kennedys? http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2258835&enterthread=y Oh wait, that's not electing...it's selecting...

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Pissing money down a toilet.

This will probably piss off the last 12% of people who approve of Bush.

How so? They've got their eyes shut so hard and hands pressed over their ears, they evidentally couldn't hear or see any of the outrageous crap going on for the last 7-8 years.

 

[aphex]

Waste of money.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: Dari
They are the elected leaders you put in power. They are professional liars with time constraints. They only thing they're good at is spending other people's money. And the worst thing is you keep sending them back to the seats of power. So you are to blame, not them.

Want better leadership, elect better leaders.

Oh, I hear you brother! I have not voted for a Repub or Dem in more years then I can count, I think Bush Sr. it the last one I voted for.
I fully belive that the Republicans and Democrats don't really care which of them wins as long as one of them two does. They just get elected and do what ever they want and piss us all off until we won't take it anymore. Then the other side steps up and tells us that they are not "THEM" and that you only really have one other choice. Then they do the exact same things, just with diffrent excuses until we are pissed off at them. That is when the process starts all over.

They are like a pack of wolves, sure they will fight each other for scraps of food, but they quickly band together to prevent anyone not of the pack getting anything at all.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Viability would mean that the companies must have a positive net present value, which doesn't necessarily mean immediate profitability but would require them to reach that point relatively soon, the official said.

I don't have a PHd, but can somebody please explain what "positive net present value" means because it sounds to me like horsh*t and not specific or quantifiable at all.

Start here:

Net present value

Thanks. Unfortunately, one of its variables is time-based or "future estimated" cash flow, isn't it? If so, that removes a hard and fast conclusion about actual value, as one may think sales will be low and another high in the same period (I only scanned this, though).

 

[SP33Demon]

Doesn't matter, the Treasury would have just given them money anyway (if a deal didn't go through). It's BS.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

turrrrrrible

WHEN it fails (not if), they will just say it was not enough, try to shift blame to govt and now that they are pot-committed, either guilt them into pissing away more money or make them look like heartless bastards.

 

[SleepWalkerX]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Skoorb

"If the firms have not attained viability by March 31, 2009, the loan will be called and all funds returned to the Treasury," the statement says.

What? That's a joke, right?

Everything I've read regarding the automakers financial viability is that would would not begin to be profitable again until about 2010 when the union concessions start to kick in. I'd really like to know why they chose this date. Just makes no sense.

They're liars. GM and Ford are broke. The sooner we realize it the sooner they can begin restructuring their business. link

Ford Profitability Schedule

Flashback June 22, 2006: Ford to be profitable in 2008

Ford Motor Co. said it was on track to meet its goal of making its North American auto business profitable by 2008 and remained committed to that target. Mark Fields, Ford's president of the Americas, announced the company's upcoming vehicle line-up and a push to offer more fuel-efficient vehicles.

Flashback November 8, 2007: Ford To Be Profitable in 2009

Ford said it was on track to meet its goal of being profitable in North America and in all of its automotive operations by 2009.

Flashback May 22, 2008: Ford To Break Even in 2009

Ford said Thursday it likely will not hit its target to be profitable in 2009, but will just break even said Ford CEO Alan Mulally. "Overall, we expect to be about break-even companywide in 2009 -- with continued strong results in Europe and South America."

Flashback December 2, 2008: Ford sees at least breakeven in 2011

Ford Motor Co said on Tuesday it expects overall and North American automotive business pretax results to break even or be profitable in 2011.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

"If the firms have not attained viability by March 31, 2009, the loan will be called and all funds returned to the Treasury," the statement says.

What? That's a joke, right?

It's possible they will be able to pay it back. Toyota makes makes 16 Billion a year in profit - GM used to make profits like that - That how they bought up tons of comapies back in the day like Hughes Defense, Delphi among others. It will take a long time though to rebuild 25 years of crap they have been pushing out the door. Just like it took Toyota decades to build their reputation in the US market and around the world. Question is does congress have patience, eg more money to wait for turn around. This won't be the last 'loan' but it's probably the the second to the last.

 

[nergee]

Nothing but throwing good money after bad in a misguided attempt
to save jobs.....not a single job will be saved by
this action. In fact, it will cost jobs....

 

[tk149]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

"If the firms have not attained viability by March 31, 2009, the loan will be called and all funds returned to the Treasury," the statement says.

What? That's a joke, right?

Yeah, how the hell is that supposed to happen? They will already have spent the money! Is the gov't taking a first secured position, thereby screwing all other secured creditors?

Maybe the UAW will lend them the money. :roll:

 

[MikeMike]

dems pass bailout --- good
bush passes bailout --- bad

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Skoorb

"If the firms have not attained viability by March 31, 2009, the loan will be called and all funds returned to the Treasury," the statement says.

What? That's a joke, right?

It's possible they will be able to pay it back. Toyota makes makes 16 Billion a year in profit - GM used to make profits like that - That how they bought up tons of comapies back in the day like Hughes Defense, Delphi among others. It will take a long time though to rebuild 25 years of crap they have been pushing out the door. Just like it took Toyota decades to build their reputation in the US market and around the world. Question is does congress have patience, eg more money to wait for turn around. This won't be the last 'loan' but it's probably the the second to the last.

Except Toyota is projecting a loss now...

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Skoorb

"If the firms have not attained viability by March 31, 2009, the loan will be called and all funds returned to the Treasury," the statement says.

What? That's a joke, right?

It's possible they will be able to pay it back. Toyota makes makes 16 Billion a year in profit - GM used to make profits like that - That how they bought up tons of comapies back in the day like Hughes Defense, Delphi among others. It will take a long time though to rebuild 25 years of crap they have been pushing out the door. Just like it took Toyota decades to build their reputation in the US market and around the world. Question is does congress have patience, eg more money to wait for turn around. This won't be the last 'loan' but it's probably the the second to the last.

Except Toyota is projecting a loss now...

except they're a japanese company so it's not quite the same.

 

[Squisher]

You know, I actually find something heartening about all this.

Bush had people looking at the books for over a week. They must feel that if the right factors are present that the auto companies could survive. Otherwise, why not just let them slide into liquidation?

It is going to be an interesting 90 days.