Dear Mr Obama

[senseamp]

Sucks to lose a limb for a mistake.

 

[deathstorm78]

Originally posted by: palehorse
Invading Iraq was a mistake.

That said, we're there now. A premature withdrawal that throws the entire region into total chaos would be an even larger mistake. Doing so would by a huge slap in the face of every soldier who has sacrificed their time, health, or life, for the freedom of the Iraqi people. Only then would our losses be in vein.

Don't let that happen.

Invading Iraq was a mistake. This is correct.

So how do we further justify our presence in a country that we shouldn't be in? Do we continue to say "Well we've lost so many of our troops! Their sacrifice should not be in vain!" and just keep our course sacrificing more lives as time drags on? Or do we truly do what is right for our country and for Iraq?

So what is the right thing to do? I don't know, but I think the second Iraq started talking about timetables for us to leave we were taken off the hook in terms of responsibility.

The entire region is unstable and it will most likely stay that way as it has been for long periods of time before we got there.

 

[retrospooty]

Pretty heavy... though I fail to see the point. The war ended 5 years ago, 2 months after it started (remember mission accomplished?) All it is now is a police action, and all Obama wants to do is make the Iraqi govt SPEND THIER OWN MONEY on it, and step up to the plate.

 

[daveymark]

Someone needs to check this guy out. make sure his leg is truly missing. I bet he owes back taxes.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: deathstorm78

Originally posted by: palehorse
Invading Iraq was a mistake.

That said, we're there now. A premature withdrawal that throws the entire region into total chaos would be an even larger mistake. Doing so would by a huge slap in the face of every soldier who has sacrificed their time, health, or life, for the freedom of the Iraqi people. Only then would our losses be in vein.

Don't let that happen.

Invading Iraq was a mistake. This is correct.

So how do we further justify our presence in a country that we shouldn't be in? Do we continue to say "Well we've lost so many of our troops! Their sacrifice should not be in vain!" and just keep our course sacrificing more lives as time drags on? Or do we truly do what is right for our country and for Iraq?

So what is the right thing to do? I don't know, but I think the second Iraq started talking about timetables for us to leave we were taken off the hook in terms of responsibility.

The entire region is unstable and it will most likely stay that way as it has been for long periods of time before we got there.

Bingo. I understand the people who have been over there and sacrificed do not want to accept the fact that they are all pawns in GWB's game of nation building, but let's be real. Iraq was a mistake and it's a mistake we are still over there. Iraq's going to need to learn how to stand on their own. They seem willing to take responsibility for their own security, so I have no idea why we aren't out of there yet.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: deathstorm78

Originally posted by: palehorse
Invading Iraq was a mistake.

That said, we're there now. A premature withdrawal that throws the entire region into total chaos would be an even larger mistake. Doing so would by a huge slap in the face of every soldier who has sacrificed their time, health, or life, for the freedom of the Iraqi people. Only then would our losses be in vein.

Don't let that happen.

Invading Iraq was a mistake. This is correct.

So how do we further justify our presence in a country that we shouldn't be in? Do we continue to say "Well we've lost so many of our troops! Their sacrifice should not be in vain!" and just keep our course sacrificing more lives as time drags on? Or do we truly do what is right for our country and for Iraq?

So what is the right thing to do? I don't know, but I think the second Iraq started talking about timetables for us to leave we were taken off the hook in terms of responsibility.

The entire region is unstable and it will most likely stay that way as it has been for long periods of time before we got there.

I'm not quite sure you understand the magnitude of the violent chaos that would unfold if we leave prematurely.

We can't turn back the clock and we can't ignore the reality of what Iraq is facing today. Sadly, it may take another 4-8 years for Iraq to be ready to govern and secure themselves. In the meantime, believe it or not, our security forces will remain the only thing sitting between stability and total chaos. Iraqi forces are simply not ready.

For that reason, we're morally obligated to finish what we started... at least, some of us are.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: aphex
I commend him for his service and sacrifice but I disagree. I value a human life more than I value a legacy.

Why do you hate America and our freedom you unpatriotic traitor liberal terrarist supporter?

 

[Dari]

Give the guy a break. Imagine if he lost his limb and felt the war wasn't worth it. He'd be one extremely angry and bitter motherfucker.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: daveymark
Someone needs to check this guy out. make sure his leg is truly missing. I bet he owes back taxes.

Awwww... Still sad about Joe the Douchebag I see. Maybe if he wasn't an ignorant attention whore jumping at every interview opportunity that wouldn't have happened?

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Dari
Give the guy a break. Imagine if he lost his limb and felt the war wasn't worth it. He'd be one extremely angry and bitter motherfucker.

If that's the case his blame is in the wrong place.

 

[SecPro]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Why hasn't McCain invited this guy to stump with him on the campaign?

You are a worthless piece of shit.

 

[deathstorm78]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: deathstorm78

Originally posted by: palehorse
Invading Iraq was a mistake.

That said, we're there now. A premature withdrawal that throws the entire region into total chaos would be an even larger mistake. Doing so would by a huge slap in the face of every soldier who has sacrificed their time, health, or life, for the freedom of the Iraqi people. Only then would our losses be in vein.

Don't let that happen.

Invading Iraq was a mistake. This is correct.

So how do we further justify our presence in a country that we shouldn't be in? Do we continue to say "Well we've lost so many of our troops! Their sacrifice should not be in vain!" and just keep our course sacrificing more lives as time drags on? Or do we truly do what is right for our country and for Iraq?

So what is the right thing to do? I don't know, but I think the second Iraq started talking about timetables for us to leave we were taken off the hook in terms of responsibility.

The entire region is unstable and it will most likely stay that way as it has been for long periods of time before we got there.

I'm not quite sure you understand the magnitude of the violent chaos that would unfold if we leave prematurely.

We can't turn back the clock and we can't ignore the reality of what Iraq is facing today. Sadly, it may take another 4-8 years for Iraq to be ready to govern and secure themselves. In the meantime, believe it or not, our security forces will remain the only thing sitting between stability and total chaos. Iraqi forces are simply not ready.

For that reason, we're morally obligated to finish what we started... at least, some of us are.

Morally obligated? And what is your sacrifice or commitment(other than tax dollars) to the the present situation? Are you currently serving in Iraq?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being hostile with you, I'm just trying to understand your opinion.

Also, I'm sure I don't understand your opinion on the "magnitude of the violent chaos that would unfold." I've heard the random rant here and there, but it all comes down to your classic fearmongering, at least in my opinion.

Will there be reprecussions? Most certainly, but I'm in no position to say what they will be. So if we start to withdraw, as Iraq seems to want us to, which will be a slow process anyway then we can see how the Iraqi security really holds up. If we need to we can assist if that is what they want, but saying that we absolutely must stay because we have a moral obligation to do so, even when Iraq is asking us to leave, doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: daveymark
Someone needs to check this guy out. make sure his leg is truly missing. I bet he owes back taxes.

Awwww... Still sad about Joe the Douchebag I see. Maybe if he wasn't a McCain supporter that wouldn't have happened?

fixed

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: deathstorm78

Originally posted by: palehorse
Invading Iraq was a mistake.

That said, we're there now. A premature withdrawal that throws the entire region into total chaos would be an even larger mistake. Doing so would by a huge slap in the face of every soldier who has sacrificed their time, health, or life, for the freedom of the Iraqi people. Only then would our losses be in vein.

Don't let that happen.

Invading Iraq was a mistake. This is correct.

So how do we further justify our presence in a country that we shouldn't be in? Do we continue to say "Well we've lost so many of our troops! Their sacrifice should not be in vain!" and just keep our course sacrificing more lives as time drags on? Or do we truly do what is right for our country and for Iraq?

So what is the right thing to do? I don't know, but I think the second Iraq started talking about timetables for us to leave we were taken off the hook in terms of responsibility.

The entire region is unstable and it will most likely stay that way as it has been for long periods of time before we got there.

Bingo. I understand the people who have been over there and sacrificed do not want to accept the fact that they are all pawns in GWB's game of nation building, but let's be real. Iraq was a mistake and it's a mistake we are still over there. Iraq's going to need to learn how to stand on their own. They seem willing to take responsibility for their own security, so I have no idea why we aren't out of there yet.

Because they're nowhere near ready yet? If we left right now Iraq would go to shit very quickly in attempt to "take responsibility for their own security".

 

[Vic]

When interviewed for the LBJ biography for American Experience back in the 1990s, LBJ's press secretary George Reedy explained the President's dilemma about the escalation of the Vietnam War thusly:
"Suppose that you are the President of the United States, and you give some orders, and some men get killed. You aren't going to say to yourself - and I mean to yourself - late at night - 'those men are dead because I was a damn slob.' What you're going to say is 'My God, those men died in a noble cause, and we gotta see they didn't die in vain.' So you send more men to vindicate their deaths."

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: daveymark
Someone needs to check this guy out. make sure his leg is truly missing. I bet he owes back taxes.

You know what, tell me your address and I'll find him, bring him and a few other soldiers I know along. Then we'll see if you have the balls to say that to him in person after inspecting his leg.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: deathstorm78

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: deathstorm78

Originally posted by: palehorse
Invading Iraq was a mistake.

That said, we're there now. A premature withdrawal that throws the entire region into total chaos would be an even larger mistake. Doing so would by a huge slap in the face of every soldier who has sacrificed their time, health, or life, for the freedom of the Iraqi people. Only then would our losses be in vein.

Don't let that happen.

Invading Iraq was a mistake. This is correct.

So how do we further justify our presence in a country that we shouldn't be in? Do we continue to say "Well we've lost so many of our troops! Their sacrifice should not be in vain!" and just keep our course sacrificing more lives as time drags on? Or do we truly do what is right for our country and for Iraq?

So what is the right thing to do? I don't know, but I think the second Iraq started talking about timetables for us to leave we were taken off the hook in terms of responsibility.

The entire region is unstable and it will most likely stay that way as it has been for long periods of time before we got there.

I'm not quite sure you understand the magnitude of the violent chaos that would unfold if we leave prematurely.

We can't turn back the clock and we can't ignore the reality of what Iraq is facing today. Sadly, it may take another 4-8 years for Iraq to be ready to govern and secure themselves. In the meantime, believe it or not, our security forces will remain the only thing sitting between stability and total chaos. Iraqi forces are simply not ready.

For that reason, we're morally obligated to finish what we started... at least, some of us are.

Morally obligated? And what is your sacrifice or commitment(other than tax dollars) to the the present situation? Are you currently serving in Iraq?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being hostile with you, I'm just trying to understand your opinion.

Also, I'm sure I don't understand your opinion on the "magnitude of the violent chaos that would unfold." I've heard the random rant here and there, but it all comes down to your classic fearmongering, at least in my opinion.

Will there be reprecussions? Most certainly, but I'm in no position to say what they will be. So if we start to withdraw, as Iraq seems to want us to, which will be a slow process anyway then we can see how the Iraqi security really holds up. If we need to we can assist if that is what they want, but saying that we absolutely must stay because we have a moral obligation to do so, even when Iraq is asking us to leave, doesn't make any sense to me.

It makes perfect sense. If we leave now we will be solely responsible for every death incurred in the resulting chaos, and it'll probably put Rwanda to shame. You want to be responsible for that in the name of tax dollars?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: deathstorm78
Morally obligated? And what is your sacrifice or commitment(other than tax dollars) to the the present situation? Are you currently serving in Iraq?

I have... and I will again. In fact, I'll be back in Iraq in May.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being hostile with you, I'm just trying to understand your opinion.

Also, I'm sure I don't understand your opinion on the "magnitude of the violent chaos that would unfold." I've heard the random rant here and there, but it all comes down to your classic fearmongering, at least in my opinion.

I appreciate your honesty. All I can say is that I've been there, I've seen the variables in play, and I've read the internal reports you don't have access to. If we do leave before Iraq is ready, the next several years would make the last several look like a picnic...

Will there be reprecussions? Most certainly, but I'm in no position to say what they will be. So if we start to withdraw, as Iraq seems to want us to, which will be a slow process anyway then we can see how the Iraqi security really holds up. If we need to we can assist if that is what they want, but saying that we absolutely must stay because we have a moral obligation to do so, even when Iraq is asking us to leave, doesn't make any sense to me.

Trust me, their government doesn't really want us to leave just yet. Anything you may see or hear that states otherwise is simply mandatory political posturing on their part. They know that we're the only thing standing between them and an all-out proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia on their soil.

So, while I agree that we never should have gone into Iraq in the first place, we simply can't afford to leave before they are truly ready to govern and secure themselves. If we do, it would only be a matter of time before we're back over there fighting again...

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
If we're doing great things there, where else shall we send our army to "spread freedom" by force?
Is it our right to do that?

Maybe some other nation should get it into their heads that the US is not a sufficiently free country, and invade and occupy us until we are at their requisite level of freedom. Should that happen, we would welcome them as "liberators," yes?

The ends do not automatically justify the means.

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Why hasn't McCain invited this guy to stump with him on the campaign?

Hmm, I smells me a troll 'round these parts.

Call me biased but I wouldn't be here today if the US didn't spread freedom to my old country by force.

 

[deathstorm78]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: deathstorm78
Morally obligated? And what is your sacrifice or commitment(other than tax dollars) to the the present situation? Are you currently serving in Iraq?

I have... and I will again. In fact, I'll be back in Iraq in May.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being hostile with you, I'm just trying to understand your opinion.

Also, I'm sure I don't understand your opinion on the "magnitude of the violent chaos that would unfold." I've heard the random rant here and there, but it all comes down to your classic fearmongering, at least in my opinion.

I appreciate your honesty. All I can say is that I've been there, I've seen the variables in play, and I've read the internal reports you don't have access to. If we do leave before Iraq is ready, the next several years would make the last several look like a picnic...

Will there be reprecussions? Most certainly, but I'm in no position to say what they will be. So if we start to withdraw, as Iraq seems to want us to, which will be a slow process anyway then we can see how the Iraqi security really holds up. If we need to we can assist if that is what they want, but saying that we absolutely must stay because we have a moral obligation to do so, even when Iraq is asking us to leave, doesn't make any sense to me.

Trust me, their government doesn't really want us to leave just yet. Anything you may see or hear that states otherwise is simply mandatory political posturing on their part. They know that we're the only thing standing between them and an all-out proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia on their soil.

So, while I agree that we never should have gone into Iraq in the first place, we simply can't afford to leave before they are truly ready to govern and secure themselves. If we do, it would only be a matter of time before we're back over there fighting again...

Hey man, props to you for serving. I have a friend going back out again too, and I just hate to hear it, but I know you are both just doing your duty.

I understand your view from having been there, so I'll take your word on it that you have a better eyes on account of the situation. As for reports, I have to say I've been on that end man. I served in an Intel Bn and I've been privy to reports as well. YOu know just as well as I do that not all the information passed along is the whole truth. It's often times watered down just enough to sound like the truth, but convey a certain point that needs(or is wanted) to be conveyed. Once again though, we have to trust our personnel on the ground there and hope they are doing what's right.

I think more than anything I am more pissed as how we got started in this whole mess and am probably in as big a denial as everyone else that we actually are needed there. I guess a big part of me hopes that Iraq isn't BSing when they say they're ready and that our troops can come home.

I certainly don't think throwing more troops into the fray to justify the sacrifice of others is the right thing to do. I don't think any troop KIA would want a fellow to die to justify their death, I don't think that's what their service is about. I think they realize they were there to fulfill their duty. Some die and some make it home. Ultimately they want everyone to make it home safe, but that's just not how it turns out, but they serve and they do it as honorably as they can.

Anyhow, Cheers, hope you make it home safe.

 

[Vic]

There's no such thing as spreading freedom by force. That's an oxymoron of Orwellian dimensions.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: dartworth

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Why hasn't McCain invited this guy to stump with him on the campaign?

i see what you did there...



:thumbsup:

Secpro,

Seems there are two worthless pieces of shit floating around.

 

[Desturel]

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: daveymark
Someone needs to check this guy out. make sure his leg is truly missing. I bet he owes back taxes.

You know what, tell me your address and I'll find him, bring him and a few other soldiers I know along. Then we'll see if you have the balls to say that to him in person after inspecting his leg.

I believe you missed the sarcasm in that post. davey was referring to Sam the Plumber who isn't a licensed plumber and owes back taxes. The one who is currently giving speeches on McCain's behalf.

On another note, I find it ironic that people who are so caught up in spending money to defend the freedom of people in other countries are so against the "socialist" spending associated with defending the people in our own country.

"I'll give you as much tax money as possible to kill people in other countries to 'spread freedom', but I'll be damned if my tax money is used to build schools or hospitals in my own country."

It's almost as confusing to me as the Sarah Palin "I'm against Obama taxing rich companies that send business overseas to redistribute wealth, but I'm all for taxing oil companies to send a rebate check to Alaskan's every year."

 

[L00PY]

Originally posted by: palehorse
I appreciate your honesty. All I can say is that I've been there, I've seen the variables in play, and I've read the internal reports you don't have access to. If we do leave before Iraq is ready, the next several years would make the last several look like a picnic...

I don't know with how much certainty anyone could make that claim. I mean every move in or out always looks like the best move at the time but when history looks back, there's often a different answer.

1) Bush 41 battles Iraqi forces in response to an invasion of Kuwait.
2) Bush 41 halts the offensive in Iraq after 100 hours, leaving Saddam in power.
3) Clinton leaves Saddam in power, with no WMDs and no Al Qaeda presence in Iraq.
4) Bush 43 attacks Iraq despite there being no WMDs and no Al Qaeda there.
5) Bush 43 announces mission accomplished in Iraq.
6) Bush 43 remains in Iraq, with a growing Al Qaeda presence.

All of these seemed like the right decision at the time, and how many still look like good ones? The first is a gimme, but the rest? If the 44th President chooses to pull out of Iraq or remain longer, it could just as easily be one of the best moves made or one of the worst.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: palehorse
Invading Iraq was a mistake.

That said, we're there now. A premature withdrawal that throws the entire region into total chaos would be an even larger mistake. Doing so would be a huge slap in the face of every soldier who has sacrificed their time, health, or life, for the freedom of the Iraqi people. Only then would our losses be in vein.

Don't let that happen.

For the next 50 years you could repeat the same thing, because Iraq will never be a peacefully coexisting place.

The mistake remains today. We cannot and will not ever be able to fix Iraq. PERIOD.

100,000s Iraqis dead, 2 million+ Iraqis have emigrated..