Death of an FX-8350

jvroig

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,394
1
81
I bought an FX-8350 as a drop-in replacement to my 1090T just a little over 2 months ago (July 1).

It died about a week ago, making it last almost exactly 2 months.

I'm sure it is the CPU because I am typing this on the exact same PC, just with the old 1090T swapped back.


Short story:
With a really crappy thermal paste, it died with a very modest OC (4.3GHz, load vcore of 1.396V, HPC Mode on, CnQ on) while running Prime95 for about 2 hours. Temps reached 74-76C. It died and wouldn't post anymore. A CPU swap to the 1090T confirmed the death of the 8350. 1 week later (today), I tried to swap it back in to just verify 100% that it is indeed dead. (Fear not, brothers, it did not really die - it just turned into an expensive keychain)

I'm not sure why thermal throttling didn't take place. CnQ was even on. Perhaps it was HPC Mode being on. Yeah, it's probably that. When it is on, 8-core Turbo is the same as the single-core Turbo, and during Prime tests it removes the occasional clock-drop to 3GHz that lasts for <1 second. Had no idea it completely removes any thermal protection (if it is indeed the culprit, I'm just guessing).

So there you go, a mild voltage bump + temps well into mid-70C killed it when ran for 2-3 hours straight at max load.


Long story:
It was cheap (<$200) and was a drop-in replacement. I had a 1090T rig that was perfectly fine, but I decided Piledriver wasn't as bad as Bulldozer and was worth getting as a drop-in replacement (not as a new rig, though).

It arrived July 1, then spent 2 weeks on the shelf because I was busy, then finally got the time to bench my 1090T before swapping it out and then benching the 8350 and comparing. (I know I mentioned some of these results already, how a stock 8350 was already a bit better than a 3.7GHz 1090T).

After 3 weeks, I wanted to try something on the 1090T so I swapped it right back. By the time I was ready to swap back the 8350, I realized I was out of thermal paste (Tuniq TX-2, a few tubes of which served me well for the past 4-5 years).

I went down my favorite store and was shocked to learn that they no longer had Tuniq in stock (no TX-2, and none of the newer TX-3 and TX-4). Instead, they had an old Cooler Master and a Thermaltake TG-2. Both are crap, the Cooler Master because the stocks are so old it's way past its shelf life (they stopped manufacturing this model for a few years now). The Thermaltake TG-2 is absolutely hands-down the worst thermal paste you could get your hands-on (it doesn't even beat the expired Cooler Master).

Anyway, having no choice, I bought both and wished myself luck. Temps were much much higher (I don't mean 4-5C, I mean >10C). Ah, the TG-2 really does not disappoint - it doesn't just fail, it fails spectacularly! I've seen two round-ups that had it at the very bottom of the chart. I can certainly confirm.

Anyway, I tried different application methods in an attempt to make do with what I have until I could get a Zalman STG-1/2 (the only other SKU the store carries, but was out of stock at the moment I bought).

The motherboard only allows a modest 4.3GHz OC on the 8350 due to lack of higher vcore options and lack of vdroop control / LLC. At 4.3GHz, max load vcore I can get is ~ 1.396V, just a bit shy of 1.4V.

Using a Thermaltake Frio OCK at max fan with the Tuniq, I'd be getting max load temps (Prime95 Large FFT) of ~57-59, HPC Mode on. I tried that same profile on the TG-2, and temps soared to over 70C, settling at around 74-76C.

Here's what I was thinking. AMD doesn't publish max temps AND vcore ranges for this part. If I go by the FX-8150 (direct ancestor), max temp should only be 61C (but at what range of operating voltages? AMD doesn't publish). But Trinity mobile SKU's (like the A4-4300m I benched in VC&G) sporting the same Piledriver cores have a much higher limit (sites like CPUBoss and CPU World specify 100C, despite a vcore range of up to 1.35V). So, the same old Piledriver cores can take 1.35V and 100C? Well, if so, I'm still relatively ok (1.396V, 76C).

So, I just let it run continuously as I continued working on my laptop.

It just black-screened well into the 2nd hour, close to 3rd, probably.



Final thoughts:
So there you go. I'm not sure what exactly is helpful here, but off the top of my head I can name the ff:

1.) Really never settle on Thermaltake TG-2. TG-1 is really way better, or TG-2 is really just way way worse.

2.) Even at relatively low vcore (relative to most enthusiast overclocks of the FX-8350) of 1.396V, it's possible to kill an 8350 with temps up to 76C for a relatively moderate duration of 2-3 hours.

3.) HPC Mode (if it is indeed what stopped the CPU from throttling) is a dangerous weapon. It is very useful in that it allows better MT performance, but at the cost of shutting down all thermal protection.

4.) This is the very first CPU I've killed from both the Intel and AMD camp. I can remember killing a lot of lesser motherboards (various less expensive MSI and Gigabyte boards) due to overclocking, but never a CPU before. So this was pretty fun in a "well, that hasn't happened before" kind of way.
 
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Rvenger

Elite Member <br> Super Moderator <br> Video Cards
Apr 6, 2004
6,283
5
81
I have seen people put much higher voltage than that... and temps. I think you had a bad chip from the start. It is extremely rare but it does happen. From my experience, the max temp for an 8 core is 60c, and a 4 core PD would be 70c.
 

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
3,764
4,222
136
This is the 1st case I have read about 8xxx dieing on any forum. You gotta be the unluckiest guy in the world. Just RMA it and keep your fingers crossed.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Its just another statement that there is no such thing as riskfree OC.

Atleast you still had your 1090T to reuse, but no fun losing HW :|
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
This is the 1st case I have read about 8xxx dieing on any forum. You gotta be the unluckiest guy in the world. Just RMA it and keep your fingers crossed.

You cant be serious? Are you advocating RMA fraud? D:
 

KingFatty

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2010
3,034
1
81
What brand/model motherboard, any idea what level of power delivery system it has?
 

Durvelle27

Diamond Member
Jun 3, 2012
4,102
0
0
When OCing a FX 83xx seris cpu you always want to keep temps below 67c. At 70c it will start to throttle and higher than 70c it should have shutdown to protect from frying the CPU but yours didn't. Also sorry to here about your chip. This is the first time i've heard of this happening



Could you list your full system specs (mobo, psu, cooler, etc.)
 

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
3,764
4,222
136
You cant be serious? Are you advocating RMA fraud? D:
I'm not advocating anything. It's a suggestion and it's up to him to do whatever he thinks is right. We have no clue why CPU died, agreed? Or are you willing to claim YOU know why it died? So why not RMA it? AMD will run it thru their tests and see the real reason.
 

Erenhardt

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2012
3,251
105
101
@61'C AMD CPUs start throttling... Not only yours exceeded that temp by 10 degrees, but could not reduce the voltage (high temps are not so dangerous. High temps and increased voltage are deadly) for several hours of powervirus tasks.
What is worth mentioning is, AMD doesn't hinder CPU overclocking. We are able to disable all the protecting instructions and put the CPUs straight into hell. Your imagination is your limit...
 

jvroig

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,394
1
81
I have seen people put much higher voltage than that... and temps. I think you had a bad chip from the start. It is extremely rare but it does happen. From my experience, the max temp for an 8 core is 60c, and a 4 core PD would be 70c.

I'm a bit confused by your combined statements.

First, you tell me you've seen guys pump higher volts AND temps, drawing the conclusion I just had a lousy chip because it shouldn't have died. (Very possible, of course)

But then you end with your own experience that 8xxx chips should have a max temp of 60C only, which I breached very cleanly with a 76C max temp (that I remember; I wasn't paying attention to it since I was working on a laptop beside it; it could very well have been at 80C at the specific time it died).

I'm just not sure if you are telling me "well, that's unlucky, most forumers torture it for >3 hours with greater volts and greater temps, so it shouldn't have died" or if you are telling me "well, at least you know it's your fault, because you really shouldn't have exceeded 60C"

Either statement is perfectly applicable, though. I'm just not sure which one to use when I tell you "yep, you're right "
 

linaaslt

Junior Member
Aug 8, 2013
20
6
81
I'm not advocating anything. It's a suggestion and it's up to him to do whatever he thinks is right. We have no clue why CPU died, agreed? Or are you willing to claim YOU know why it died? So why not RMA it? AMD will run it thru their tests and see the real reason.

I would also RMA the CPU cause there is nothing wrong with doing so. At least i don't see.
 

Erenhardt

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2012
3,251
105
101
I would also RMA the CPU cause there is nothing wrong with doing so. At least i don't see.

The wrong doing part is: someone will have to pay for the next CPU he is going to get for free. The one paying for it will be AMDs customers - yes, other people, friends from the forum that are going to buy AMD CPU.
If one does something dangerous that is not supported by manufacturer, and voids the warranty, one should take the responsibility...
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
Well, since they do advertise it as unlocked, I don't see a great moral problem with returning it, unless you outright lie and deny overclocking it. It does seem like a somewhat borderline chip. I agree it is a grey area though.
 

jvroig

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,394
1
81
You gotta be the unluckiest guy in the world. Just RMA it and keep your fingers crossed.
Well, strictly speaking, "unluckier guys" would be those who couldn't afford a ~$200 purchase just for kicks even though clearly unnecessary

I overclocked the CPU, several times and with several different settings, since I got it. That voided the warranty. Then it died. There is no question it would be RMA fraud. Even the old AMD Dragon Platform Overclocking Guide clearly has a disclaimer in the footnote saying OC'ing voids warranty. (Also, I really never have time for trivialities like RMA; I've never RMA'd anything in my life so far. Even if I did have a valid thing to RMA, I never go to that trouble. I'd just buy a new one and forget about it or carry on with whatever crazy thing I was doing.)
 

jvroig

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,394
1
81
Atleast you still had your 1090T to reuse, but no fun losing HW
Indeed, killing hardware is always a bit of bother (especially mobos). Though this one is a very minor nuisance. I have four machines at home (counting this one), and a complete backup of everything (important work files, projects, personal files, steam games, etc) resides in 2 external 2TB drives (mirror copies of each other). Even if this one straight up exploded, I would just settle on another machine, restore from backup whatever was necessary, and be on my way.

You cant be serious? Are you advocating RMA fraud?
Perhaps there is a grey area here in his mind (but none in mine). No RMA from me, clearly.
 

Durvelle27

Diamond Member
Jun 3, 2012
4,102
0
0
@61'C AMD CPUs start throttling... Not only yours exceeded that temp by 10 degrees, but could not reduce the voltage (high temps are not so dangerous. High temps and increased voltage are deadly) for several hours of powervirus tasks.
What is worth mentioning is, AMD doesn't hinder CPU overclocking. We are able to disable all the protecting instructions and put the CPUs straight into hell. Your imagination is your limit...

This is incorrect. The FX 83xx series doesn't start throttling until 70c
 

jvroig

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,394
1
81
What brand/model motherboard, any idea what level of power delivery system it has?

Could you list your full system specs (mobo, psu, cooler, etc.)

Your wish is my command, good sirs.

Relevant Specs:
Mobo: MSI 990FXA-GD80
Case: Cooler Master CM 690 (original, not the II or other editions), with 6x 120mm fans installed (positive pressure)
Cooler: Thermaltake Frio OCK
Power Supply: Corsair TX 950W
 
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jvroig

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,394
1
81
We have no clue why CPU died, agreed?
I'm pretty sure it died as a result of running it out of spec. Anyway, let's drop this talk about RMA. I won't be RMA'ing it.

I would also RMA the CPU cause there is nothing wrong with doing so. At least i don't see.
I ran the CPU out of spec and then proceeded to torture it. According to the warranty agreement, overclocking it will immediately void the warranty.

Anyway, enough talk of RMA. I won't be doing it, and my mind won't change even if there are 10 more suggestions to do so, so let's just call it a day on that RMA


If one does something dangerous that is not supported by manufacturer, and voids the warranty, one should take the responsibility...
:thumbsup:
 
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Durvelle27

Diamond Member
Jun 3, 2012
4,102
0
0
Your wish is my command, good sirs.

Relevant Specs:
Mobo: MSI 990FXA-GD80
Case: Cooler Master CM 690 (original, not the II or other editions), with 6x 120mm fans installed (positive pressure)
Cooler: Thermaltake Frio OCK
Power Supply: Corsair TX 950W

Hmmm i think your cooler is suspect also. Was it mounted correctly. I've used a Hyper 212+ w/8320 @4.4GHz with no problem for months
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
http://sites.amd.com/us/Documents/AMD_FX_Performance_Tuning_Guide.pdf
DAMAGES CAUSED BY USE OF YOUR AMD PROCESSOR OUTSIDE OF OFFICIAL AMD SPECIFICATIONS OR OUTSIDE OF FACTORY SETTINGS ARE NOT COVERED UNDER ANY AMD PRODUCT WARRANTY AND MAY NOT BE COVERED BY YOUR BOARD OR SYSTEM MANUFACTURER’S WARRANTY. SEE THE AMD OVERDRIVE UTILITY END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT OR THE APPLICABLE AMD OVERCLOCKING UTILITY FOR DETAILS.

I think it is clear why AMD does not support CPUs toasted by overclocking. IT HURTS THEM FINANACIALLY. Connect the dots, a pro-AMD poster made a suggestion that would harm AMD financially, as if AMD really needs more lost $$$.
 

jvroig

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,394
1
81
@61'C AMD CPUs start throttling... Not only yours exceeded that temp by 10 degrees, but could not reduce the voltage (high temps are not so dangerous. High temps and increased voltage are deadly) for several hours of powervirus tasks.

This is incorrect. The FX 83xx series doesn't start throttling until 70c

I'm not sure which of you is more accurate, but the real problem isn't whether it is 61C or 70C. The real issue (in my mind, anyway) is that this info is not published by AMD. The FX-8350 neither has the range of operating voltages nor the max operating temperature published (unlike, say, the Phenom II parts). You guys could argue 'til the cows come home, but without an official published reference from AMD it wouldn't really matter, would it?

The death of this CPU is a very minor nuisance to me, I'm not even aggravated by it. I'm not pissed or anything, even though I could say "damn you, AMD! If only you published the voltages and max temps acceptable, I could have avoided this!". Killing something is an inherent risk which I accepted when I started overclocking years ago. That it happened to be a CPU this time changes nothing. It's simply a risk that comes with the hobby. I knew the risks were a bit higher here where I have no official published guidelines upon which to guide my tinkering, but I accepted that and continued tinkering. I reaped what I sowed, and I'm fine with it.
 

jvroig

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,394
1
81
Hmmm i think your cooler is suspect also. Was it mounted correctly. I've used a Hyper 212+ w/8320 @4.4GHz with no problem for months
Oh no, read the reviews of this cooler in places like HardwareSecrets. This is a huge beastly cooler that comes with two fans and is very loud at maximum. I've touched on this on the "Long Story" portion of my OP, so I won't elaborate too much here. It's not the cooler, it's the subpar thermal paste. With the same cooler but a far superior Tuniq as paste, temps were lower by over 10C. Anyway, read all about it in the OP's "Long Story" section if you like.
 

Durvelle27

Diamond Member
Jun 3, 2012
4,102
0
0
I'm not sure which of you is more accurate, but the real problem isn't whether it is 61C or 70C. The real issue (in my mind, anyway) is that this info is not published by AMD. The FX-8350 neither has the range of operating voltages nor the max operating temperature published (unlike, say, the Phenom II parts). You guys could argue 'til the cows come home, but without an official published reference from AMD it wouldn't really matter, would it?

The death of this CPU is a very minor nuisance to me, I'm not even aggravated by it. I'm not pissed or anything, even though I could say "damn you, AMD! If only you published the voltages and max temps acceptable, I could have avoided this!". Killing something is an inherent risk which I accepted when I started overclocking years ago. That it happened to be a CPU this time changes nothing. It's simply a risk that comes with the hobby. I knew the risks were a bit higher here where I have no official published guidelines upon which to guide my tinkering, but I accepted that and continued tinkering. I reaped what I sowed, and I'm fine with it.
Well this is from my own experience from personal use and when OC'd the FX 83xx throttled at 70c and PC froze at 74c.

For FX CPUs volts aren't really a problem temps are. FX CPUs can handle well above 1.7v if you can keep temps below 67c.

I've pushed over 1.6v into my 8320 currently at 1.55v




My friends 8350 @5.5GHz 1.73v



but we both use H20
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
Indeed, killing hardware is always a bit of bother (especially mobos). Though this one is a very minor nuisance. I have four machines at home (counting this one), and a complete backup of everything (important work files, projects, personal files, steam games, etc) resides in 2 external 2TB drives (mirror copies of each other). Even if this one straight up exploded, I would just settle on another machine, restore from backup whatever was necessary, and be on my way.


Perhaps there is a grey area here in his mind (but none in mine). No RMA from me, clearly.

I respect your decision and legally it is the correct one without a doubt. It just annoys me to see amd and also Intel advertising chips as "unlocked", but voiding the warranty if you use a feature they are advertising. I see this as more frustrating with amd because they have more unlocked chips and they (or resellers/builders) tend to stress this in their advertising, but Intel does it as well.
 
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