Debt ceiling brawl threatens economy, consumers

[Zorkorist]

In this economy, I'm lucky to have a credit card.

Debt is the currency of the USA today.

But that doesn't make it right.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

You must have really bad credit if you can't spend more then you take in.

BTW, so I guess you are some rich fuck?

Do you know that right now your portion of the Federal debt is like $40k?

$40k may not mean much to you, but it is a year of my income.

So, at any time, someone can call my debt, and I am broke.

That's a big thing for me.

-John

 

[trenchfoot]

Every thing that the repubs do has, ultimately, the effect of taking things away from the middle class and the poor and giving it to the rich.

Keep that in mind whenever the topic of discussion has anything to do with our nation's budget, debt ceiling, the economy, social programs, tax cuts, ad infinitum. The repubs will use ANY means at their disposal to make the rich so powerful that no matter who we elect to run our nation, they will have the means to force that/those person(s) to see things their way......oh wait.....

 

[Zorkorist]

You've got it wrong Tweaker.

It's Government, never mind Republican or Democrat, that are spending, regulating, legislating, out of control, and hurting you and I.

The only recourse, is to rein in Government.

-John

 

[sandorski]

Just like Greece.

-John

Nothing like Greece.

Epic Fail.

 

[Zorkorist]

Everything like Greece.

Epic. Fail.

-John

 

[wuliheron]

You've got it wrong Tweaker.

It's Government, never mind Republican or Democrat, that are spending, regulating, legislating, out of control, and hurting you and I.

The only recourse, is to rein in Government.

What a load of childish nonsense.

At any time in the last 30 years we could have voted everyone of those motherfuckers out of office. We could black list every one of them that votes to spend more money then the government takes in, But NO! The American people wanted their government to reflect their own lifestyle of buying cheap Walmart crap and going horribly into debt. You can blame the government all you want, but it is the American people doing this to themselves and unless you are willing to place the blame squarely where it belongs they'll just do again the minute they see another chance.

 

[Zorkorist]

What is the American Government, but a subordination of the people.

Sure, e-z, the American people are to blame.

And that changes what?

We are spending uncontrollably, and our debt is monumental.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

You could also blame our constitution, which has allowed Government to spend uncontrollably, and deny our rights.

-John

 

[wuliheron]

What is the American Government, but a subordination of the people.

Sure, e-z, the American people are to blame.

And that changes what?

Like I said, if you don't place the blame squarely where it belongs people will just do it again the first chance they have. The more people blame the government, blame the republicans, blame the democrats, but don't blame the public the less anyone will take them seriously including not least of all the assholes they elect to office.

 

[Zorkorist]

I agree with that. OBV, at the end, the people are to blame.

But my Dad used to tell me, and I do still sort of belive in it, John, we are a Representative Government. This keeps the kooks and the he-haws away.

Government is corrupt. There isn't any doubt about it,

Representative Government will fail on the fallacy that any man can be good with power.

"Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

-John

 

[wuliheron]

I agree with that. OBV, at the end, the people are to blame.

But my Dad used to tell me, and I do still sort of belive in it, John, we are a Representative Government. This keeps the kooks and the he-haws away.

Government is corrupt. There isn't any doubt about it,

Representative Government will fail on the fallacy that any man can be good with power.

"Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Well then I guess you're just hell bent on screwing yourself John and encouraging others to do the same. Might I suggest a good psychologist or bridge to jump off?

 

[Zorkorist]

I'm Randian.

I only believe in myself, and watch your Governments, sway in the wind.

And comment, on your Governments.

See my Ayn Rand thread...

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2157403

-John

 

[wuliheron]

I'm Randian.

I only believe in myself, and watch your Governments, sway in the wind.

And comment, on your Governments.

See my Ayn Rand thread...

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2157403

If you only believe in yourself then I suggest that corrupt government is the least of your worries since you seem hell bent on screwing yourself.

 

[sandorski]

Everything like Greece.

Epic. Fail.

-John

Negative, sorry.

 

[boomerang]

This is what Obama said in 2006:





Now Obama has changed his mind:

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_17819404?nclick_check=1



I lol'd.

We're fucked. D against raising the limit when R is in power. D for raising the limit when D is in power. The key word is power. Whatever politicians feel it takes to regain, maintain, hold onto - power.

I stay out of the discussions about debt, money and the economy when they reach too cerebral a level here. Honestly, I'm just not very educated or worldly in those matters. I'll let those with more knowledge than myself have those.

But I do know the difference between good debt and bad debt. Anyone arguing that what our country is servicing is good debt is either more ignorant than I or not being honest with themselves.

Power - remember that? Somehow more debt equates to more power. In the little world I've created for myself astronomical debt would equate to great weakness. Nobody would lend to me if I had to continually borrow 40% of what I was spending to keep myself clothed, fed and with a roof over my head. Unless their motive was total power and control over me.

My thoughts are affirmed when George Soros states that we need to borrow and spend still more. The man responsible for collapsing economies through currency manipulation is telling us not just to continue our ways but to intensify them?

Cut the red wire or cut the blue wire. You're being told to cut the red. You have to decide if the guy in the headset is the good guy or the bad guy. Mr. Soros is the bad guy.

Cut the blue wire - quit borrowing.

 

[Double Trouble]

It's actually sick that the nation has come to this point that now not raising the debt ceiling again (has been done literally dozens of times in past several decades) is considered the problem. That is not the problem, it is a symptom. The government spends almost twice what it brings in. THAT is the problem, the ceiling is a symptom.

Stop with your silly logic. Doesn't everyone just keep calling their credit card company to keep raising their limits when they get close to the max instead of paying off some of the balance??

I know, I know, it's not as simple as that, but it's patently absurd that we've gotten so accustomed to raising the debt ceiling (raising our credit card limit) regularly to support spending money we don't have.......

 

[Double Trouble]

What a load of childish nonsense.

At any time in the last 30 years we could have voted everyone of those motherfuckers out of office. We could black list every one of them that votes to spend more money then the government takes in, But NO! The American people wanted their government to reflect their own lifestyle of buying cheap Walmart crap and going horribly into debt. You can blame the government all you want, but it is the American people doing this to themselves and unless you are willing to place the blame squarely where it belongs they'll just do again the minute they see another chance.

Can't say I disagree with this either. We keep putting rats in DC who waste all the money and promise us rainbows and unicorns... It's our own faults as much as it is the fault of our "leaders".

 

[boomerang]

Stop with your silly logic. Doesn't everyone just keep calling their credit card company to keep raising their limits when they get close to the max instead of paying off some of the balance??

I know, I know, it's not as simple as that, but it's patently absurd that we've gotten so accustomed to raising the debt ceiling (raising our credit card limit) regularly to support spending money we don't have.......

We have to raise it. We have no other option. But raising it in conjunction with cuts in spending is the only viable option for the possibility of reversal of our financial condition. It's little more than common sense.

We're going to have to learn to get by without cherry blossom parades, cowboy poetry festivals, and far bigger things like ethanol subsidies and being the worlds policeman.

 

[Darwin333]

Earmarks are a mix of good and terrible. But they total just under $16 billion a year, in a budget over three trillion dollars, with defense alone nearly $700 billion and the extension of tax cuts for the rich $70 billion per year.

Cut defense clean in half and factor in the tax cuts for the rich, still over a trillion to go. What else ya got?

 

[Darwin333]

Idealistically you are correct. But the real consequence of defaulting on the debt would be much worse than your chicken little stories....

I want to know where all those uncertainty parrots from last year are on this debt ceiling debate. NOTHING WILL have a bigger impact on the markets than destroying the lending rates for American Businesses. The fragile world economy will collapse seeing our fantastic wall street rally come crashing down to new lows..

Go ahead and play with matches when your drenched with gas..


Its begging to be apparent that the tea party and this new zelotous wing of the remnants of the conservative party wants to win at any cost...global collapse be damned they want their small gubment...


Keep advocating for your world collapse zebo it will come....

The math is rather simple if anyone cares to actually do it.

If you get your way, what do you propose we do when our super low introductory interest rate ends? Keep in mind that last year ALL of our revenue barely covered mandatory spending which is only our big entitlement programs and interest on the debt. When that interest payment rises dramatically due to higher rates it will consume any increased revenue from taxes on the rich and realistic economic growth (not even going to get into the necessary economic contraction that must happen when we pull the deficit spending out of the economy), what do we do then?

Also keep in mind that regardless of what the tax rates have been we have never been able to collect more than a certain percentage of GDP in Federal revenue.

 

[Thump553]

I'm truely convinced that the teabaggers will only be happy when their actions tip the USA into a major depression and end the US's role as a superpower. Then they will be able to say "I told you so."

Every action they have taken so far (outside of the politically motivated fundamentalist ones, like trying to kill NPR and Planned Parenthood) seems focused on reached that nadir.

The ONLY way to even start approaching a balanced budget is to increase revenue as well as cut expenses. Since not only are tax increases off the table (in fact the GOP just rammed through another extension of tax cuts, for Pete's sake) and as the big chunks of expendtures are off the table (the Pentagon, aid to Israel ($3 billion a year plus another $2 billion annually in "loan guarantees," entitlements, etc) I'm at a loss as to how any meaningful reform can be accomplished. Instead all we will get is continued sniping at discretionary programs that are out of favor with the far right.

 

[matt0611]

Cut defense clean in half and factor in the tax cuts for the rich, still over a trillion to go. What else ya got?

Ah, thats their big secret, after military cuts and tax increases on the rich, what else do they have? (because we all know that will never get close to balancing the budget).
Theres really only one thing: tax increases...on you.

 

[senseamp]

Ah, thats their big secret, after military cuts and tax increases on the rich, what else do they have? (because we all know that will never get close to balancing the budget).
Theres really only one thing: tax increases...on you.

We had higher taxes in the 90s, life was good until Republicans royally screwed up everything.

 

[Genx87]

Obama should veto any non-clean bill. The debt ceiling should be determined by the free markets, not Boehner.

Tht doesnt make sense.