Debt ceiling brawl threatens economy, consumers

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
Nothing worrisome about Boehner's "big talk". Spending must be cut. If riders have to be attached to every bill coming out of Congress to achieve that, so be it. Somebody has to take on a position of responsibility.

Who said the following?

"Raising the debt limit is the last thing we should do. It would weaken the country. It would hurt the economy." He said, "If my Republican friends believe that increasing our debt by almost $800 billion today and more than three trillion over the last five years is the right thing to do, they should be up front about it. They should explain why they think more debt is good for the economy. How can the Republican majority in this Congress explain to their constituents that trillions of dollars in new debt is good for our economy? How can they explain that they think it's fair to force our children, our grandchildren, our great-grandchildren to finance this debt through higher taxes? That's what it will have to be. Why is it right to increase our nation's dependence on foreign credit?"

That was Harry Reid in 2006. This is how totally fucked up DC is.

This is what Obama said in 2006:

Congressional Record: March 16, 2006 (Senate), Pages S2237-S2238

Mr. OBAMA. Mr. President, I rise today to talk about America's debt problem.

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies.

Over the past 5 years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion. That is "trillion" with a "T." That is money that we have borrowed from the Social Security trust fund, borrowed from China and Japan, borrowed from American taxpayers. And over the next 5 years, between now and 2011, the President's budget will increase the debt by almost another $3.5 trillion.

Numbers that large are sometimes hard to understand. Some people may wonder why they matter. Here is why: This year, the Federal Government will spend $220 billion on interest. That is more money to pay interest on our national debt than we'll spend on Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program. That is more money to pay interest on our debt this year than we will spend on education, homeland security, transportation, and veterans benefits combined. It is more money in one year than we are likely to spend to rebuild the devastated gulf coast in a way that honors the best of America.

And the cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the Federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and States of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports, and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on.

Every dollar we pay in interest is a dollar that is not going to investment in America's priorities. Instead, interest payments are a significant tax on all Americans--a debt tax that Washington doesn't want to talk about. If Washington were serious about honest tax relief in this country, we would see an effort to reduce our national debt by returning to responsible fiscal policies.

But we are not doing that. Despite repeated efforts by Senators Conrad and Feingold, the Senate continues to reject a return to the commonsense Pay-go rules that used to apply. Previously, Pay-go rules applied both to increases in mandatory spending and to tax cuts. The Senate had to abide by the commonsense budgeting principle of balancing expenses and revenues. Unfortunately, the principle was abandoned, and now the demands of budget discipline apply only to spending.

As a result, tax breaks have not been paid for by reductions in Federal spending, and thus the only way to pay for them has been to increase our deficit to historically high levels and borrow more and more money. Now we have to pay for those tax breaks plus the cost of borrowing for them. Instead of reducing the deficit, as some people claimed, the fiscal policies of this administration and its allies in Congress will add more than $600 million in debt for each of the next 5 years. That is why I will once again cosponsor the Pay-go amendment and continue to hope that my colleagues will return to a smart rule that has worked in the past and can work again.

Our debt also matters internationally. My friend, the ranking member of the Senate Budget Committee, likes to remind us that it took 42 Presidents 224 years to run up only $1 trillion of foreign-held debt.

This administration did more than that in just 5 years. Now, there is nothing wrong with borrowing from foreign countries. But we must remember that the more we depend on foreign nations to lend us money, the more our economic security is tied to the whims of foreign leaders whose interests might not be aligned with ours.

Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that "the buck stops here."

Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem
and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.

I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit



Now Obama has changed his mind:

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_17819404?nclick_check=1

A fight over raising the debt limit is looming, and the White House is trying to explain away the apparent contradiction between Obama's previous opposition, and his position now that it must be increased.

Press Secretary Jay Carney said Monday that Obama believes his vote was a mistake. He said Obama now realizes that the debt ceiling is too important to be trifled with.

I lol'd.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,560
8
0
What do you mean free markets? The super wealthy want us in as much debt as possible. it's tax free income to them and enslaves us working people.

They would have us paying 100% of our tax dollars to service them if they could.

If interest rate changes to a more normal 6% we will pay 50% right now.

DEBT DOES YOU NO FAVORS ANYONE WHO THINKS SO IS A GOD DAMN FOOL.



Idealistically you are correct. But the real consequence of defaulting on the debt would be much worse than your chicken little stories....

I want to know where all those uncertainty parrots from last year are on this debt ceiling debate. NOTHING WILL have a bigger impact on the markets than destroying the lending rates for American Businesses. The fragile world economy will collapse seeing our fantastic wall street rally come crashing down to new lows..

Go ahead and play with matches when your drenched with gas..


Its begging to be apparent that the tea party and this new zelotous wing of the remnants of the conservative party wants to win at any cost...global collapse be damned they want their small gubment...


Keep advocating for your world collapse zebo it will come....
 

shangshang

Senior member
May 17, 2008
830
0
0
Let's see. American people are in debt. American government is also in debt.

American dream going down the toilet on all levels.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Idealistically you are correct. But the real consequence of defaulting on the debt would be much worse than your chicken little stories....

I want to know where all those uncertainty parrots from last year are on this debt ceiling debate. NOTHING WILL have a bigger impact on the markets than destroying the lending rates for American Businesses. The fragile world economy will collapse seeing our fantastic wall street rally come crashing down to new lows..

Go ahead and play with matches when your drenched with gas..


Its begging to be apparent that the tea party and this new zelotous wing of the remnants of the conservative party wants to win at any cost...global collapse be damned they want their small gubment...


Keep advocating for your world collapse zebo it will come....

Well I'd tax to buy what we want rather than debt which only makes rich richer.. First by selling Americans out for slave labor abroad and huge margins then by putting Americans in debt to same people who sold them out..I've made this clear... And Default is not an option. They will have seniors eating cat food and disband schools before we are allowed to default. Bank on it.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
Idealistically you are correct. But the real consequence of defaulting on the debt would be much worse than your chicken little stories....

I want to know where all those uncertainty parrots from last year are on this debt ceiling debate. NOTHING WILL have a bigger impact on the markets than destroying the lending rates for American Businesses. The fragile world economy will collapse seeing our fantastic wall street rally come crashing down to new lows..

Go ahead and play with matches when your drenched with gas..


Its begging to be apparent that the tea party and this new zelotous wing of the remnants of the conservative party wants to win at any cost...global collapse be damned they want their small gubment...


Keep advocating for your world collapse zebo it will come....
You can't scare us, in saying it will be SO MUCH WORSE, if we put a damper on Government spending.

Will it be painful, absolutely, but it will get better.

-John
 
Last edited:

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
Republicans changed their mind too. Under Bush, did they ask for spending cuts when they raised the debt ceiling?

I'm not going to look it up but I doubt they did were against raising it.
Have you seen me defending the 2000-2006 republican spending?
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
What do you mean free markets? The super wealthy want us in as much debt as possible. it's tax free income to them and enslaves us working people.

They would have us paying 100% of our tax dollars to service them if they could.

If interest rate changes to a more normal 6% we will pay 50% right now.

DEBT DOES YOU NO FAVORS ANYONE WHO THINKS SO IS A GOD DAMN FOOL.

Just talking about not paying bills will cause interest rates to climb. That is what not raising the debt ceiling means, means we don't pay our bills. That's no way to run a government, business, or home.

So borrowing money to buy a house or run a business makes a person a fool ?
 

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
As a country we have become so divided and poisoned by partisanship that we will gladly cut off a leg or make terrible decisions for the country as a whole just to punish or fellow countrymen for their differing ideology.

I'm begining to think we somehow have to move away from the two party political system before it brings the whole country down.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
Lieing about ones ability to pay the bills, is more disastrous.

See, Greece.

-John
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
And someone once said, that the biggest lie you can tell, is to yourself.

-John
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,560
8
0
You can't scare us, in saying it will be SO MUCH WORSE, if we put a damper on Government spending.

Will it be painful, absolutely, but it will get better.

-John

Do you realize that 4 trillion of the debt ceiling is owed to the US government? As in the federal government buys bonds-great investing btw-with the surplus's of SS. Add all those bonds together and you get 4 trillion of the 14 trillion.

What you need to realize is that the debt ceiling and our current fiscal crisis are two different things..

I know complex though is difficult for some here but at least try to understand what you think you know...
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Let's face it:

Raising the debt ceiling is good policy (deal with the budget issues separately), and opposing the other party's president raising the debt ceiling is good politics.

On this, both parties do it.

When the right only discussed Democrats doing it, it's not honest.

The people are largely at fault who childishly want to hear the opposition to it.

Is it realistic to expect politicians to anger their constituents by defending the other party's president for rasing it?

A few will, but I suspect it's not many.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Do you realize that 4 trillion of the debt ceiling is owed to the US government? As in the federal government buys bonds-great investing btw-with the surplus's of SS. Add all those bonds together and you get 4 trillion of the 14 trillion.

What you need to realize is that the debt ceiling and our current fiscal crisis are two different things..

I know complex though is difficult for some here but at least try to understand what you think you know...

That's not the way I understand it. The Fed just prints money to buy back bonds intentionally causing inflation due to the current rate being below 2%. SS really has nothing to do with it.
 

YoungGun21

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
2,551
1
81
That's not the way I understand it. The Fed just prints money to buy back bonds intentionally causing inflation due to the current rate being below 2%. SS really has nothing to do with it.

What do you understand?

They don't just print money. The money comes from places.

Also, they aren't buying bonds to cause inflation. That might be an effect, but really it was to get people to invest in stocks rather than bonds.
 
Last edited:

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,560
8
0
That's not the way I understand it. The Fed just prints money to buy back bonds intentionally causing inflation due to the current rate being below 2%. SS really has nothing to do with it.

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAna...04111853/Trust-Fund-28-Know-Its-Just-IOUs.htm

Officially, the trust fund holds $2.6 trillion in special-issue Treasury bonds. In reality, it has no assets of any value to help the government afford the cost of benefits that has already overtaken the program's payroll-tax revenue.

The trust fund bonds are, in effect, IOUs from one branch of government — the Treasury — to another. In 2011, as the Social Security Administration cashes in a projected $45 billion in trust fund bonds to make up for a revenue shortfall, Treasury will have to borrow an additional $45 billion to redeem the bonds. snip


I have seen 4 T and 2.6 T when referencing the held bonds...
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
Which makes that whole argument a moot point, no?

The simple fact is that we are spending more than we take in (the government is doing this... us mere mortal citizens, cannot) and our debt is growing out of control.

-John
 

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
Which makes that whole argument a moot point, no?

The simple fact is that we are spending more than we take in (the government is doing this... us mere mortal citizens, cannot) and our debt is growing out of control.


You must have really bad credit if you can't spend more then you take in.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |