Debt ceiling to be raised again very shortly

[blackangst1]

Here we go again. This is turning out to be a semi-annual event. I wonder of the senate has ever heard of expense reduction?

Senate must raise debt ceiling above $12T

The Senate must move legislation to raise the federal debt limit beyond $12.1 trillion by mid-October, a move viewed as necessary despite protests about the record levels of red ink.

The move will highlight the nation?s record debt, which has been central to Republican attacks against Democratic congressional leaders and President Barack Obama. The year?s deficit is expected to hit a record $1.6 trillion.

(Here's my favorite quote)

Democrats in control of Congress, including then-Sen. Obama (Ill.), blasted President George W. Bush for failing to contain spending when he oversaw increased deficits and raised the debt ceiling.

?Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren,? Obama said in a 2006 floor speech that preceded a Senate vote to extend the debt limit. ?America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.?

Obama later joined his Democratic colleagues in voting en bloc against raising the debt increase.

Now Obama is asking Congress to raise the debt ceiling...

?America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

I havent agreed with Obama any more than his statement here. Almost prophetic.

 

[Zensal]

Look, it doesn't matter what party you belong to, this is insane!!! We cannot keep deficit spending. $12.1 Trillion dollars. Thats $12,100,000,000,000. A quick google search puts the GDP at $13.84 trillion dollars. I do not think that we will ever be able to pay this back.

And IIRC, this does not include the debt owed to the Social Security Trust Fund.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Zensal
I do not think that we will ever be able to pay this back.

I wonder how much we could sell Taiwan to the Chinese for?

 

[Skitzer]

Madness indeed ...... I blame both parties for this tragic set of circumstances.
We have a bunch of power hungry, fiscally irresponsible morons in the Congress.
I've said it before ...... I'll say it again ...... TERM LIMITS!!

 

[alchemize]

Term limits won't do it. The only thing that would have ever fixed it was a balanced budget amendment to the constitution. Unfortunately one of the few things our founding fathers didn't have foresight on...

The only way to get rid of it now is inflate it away.

 

[sciwizam]

Originally posted by: Skitzer
Madness indeed ...... I blame both parties for this tragic set of circumstances.
We have a bunch of power hungry, fiscally irresponsible morons in the Congress.
I've said it before ...... I'll say it again ...... TERM LIMITS!!

We already have them, called elections. Too bad the sheeple vote blindly.

 

[MotF Bane]

Fuck you government. Fuck you.

 

[QuantumPion]

Congress will never cut spending as long as they can buy your vote with your own money.

As long as ~50% of the population pays no income taxes, things will never change.

 

[Slew Foot]

In unrelated news Gold goes over $1000 oz.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Zensal
I do not think that we will ever be able to pay this back.

Was it ever intended to be paid back?

 

[Exterous]

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
Congress will never cut spending as long as they can buy your vote with your own money.

:thumbsup:

A bugetary cut back would mean US citizens might have to do without stuff

*gasp*

 

[StageLeft]

These votes are so stupid, why do they bother? Can anybody explain the purpose of this ceiling? In recent memory have they ever said no and the ceiling was not raised?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
These votes are so stupid, why do they bother? Can anybody explain the purpose of this ceiling? In recent memory have they ever said no and the ceiling was not raised?

It's a process set up to prevent monetary dictatorship. How can a president have the Fed monetize debt if the debt is at it's ceiling?

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Skoorb
These votes are so stupid, why do they bother? Can anybody explain the purpose of this ceiling? In recent memory have they ever said no and the ceiling was not raised?

It's a process set up to prevent monetary dictatorship. How can a president have the Fed monetize debt if the debt is at it's ceiling?

Makes sense.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Zensal
Look, it doesn't matter what party you belong to, this is insane!!! We cannot keep deficit spending. $12.1 Trillion dollars. Thats $12,100,000,000,000. A quick google search puts the GDP at $13.84 trillion dollars. I do not think that we will ever be able to pay this back.

And IIRC, this does not include the debt owed to the Social Security Trust Fund.

The vast majority of this debt is owed internally. If you owe your wife $20 or vice versa, does it actually matter from a family finance perspective if she 'pays you back' or not?

 

[Skitzer]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Zensal
Look, it doesn't matter what party you belong to, this is insane!!! We cannot keep deficit spending. $12.1 Trillion dollars. Thats $12,100,000,000,000. A quick google search puts the GDP at $13.84 trillion dollars. I do not think that we will ever be able to pay this back.

And IIRC, this does not include the debt owed to the Social Security Trust Fund.

The vast majority of this debt is owed internally. If you owe your wife $20 or vice versa, does it actually matter from a family finance perspective if she 'pays you back' or not?

Vast majority? Are you sure about that? Where do you get your figures from?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Zensal
Look, it doesn't matter what party you belong to, this is insane!!! We cannot keep deficit spending. $12.1 Trillion dollars. Thats $12,100,000,000,000. A quick google search puts the GDP at $13.84 trillion dollars. I do not think that we will ever be able to pay this back.

And IIRC, this does not include the debt owed to the Social Security Trust Fund.

The vast majority of this debt is owed internally. If you owe your wife $20 or vice versa, does it actually matter from a family finance perspective if she 'pays you back' or not?

You might have a point, if your analogy wasn't idiotic. I'm going to try this one on my mortgage bank.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Zensal
Look, it doesn't matter what party you belong to, this is insane!!! We cannot keep deficit spending. $12.1 Trillion dollars. Thats $12,100,000,000,000. A quick google search puts the GDP at $13.84 trillion dollars. I do not think that we will ever be able to pay this back.

And IIRC, this does not include the debt owed to the Social Security Trust Fund.

The vast majority of this debt is owed internally. If you owe your wife $20 or vice versa, does it actually matter from a family finance perspective if she 'pays you back' or not?

You might have a point, if your analogy wasn't idiotic. I'm going to try this one on my mortgage bank.

Unless your mortgage lender is a member of your family, you might want to hold up on calling someone idiotic.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Zensal
Look, it doesn't matter what party you belong to, this is insane!!! We cannot keep deficit spending. $12.1 Trillion dollars. Thats $12,100,000,000,000. A quick google search puts the GDP at $13.84 trillion dollars. I do not think that we will ever be able to pay this back.

And IIRC, this does not include the debt owed to the Social Security Trust Fund.

The vast majority of this debt is owed internally. If you owe your wife $20 or vice versa, does it actually matter from a family finance perspective if she 'pays you back' or not?

You might have a point, if your analogy wasn't idiotic. I'm going to try this one on my mortgage bank.

Unless your mortgage lender is a member of your family, you might want to hold up on calling someone idiotic.

Better qualify that with a member of your family under your roof, or that is in the same budget you operate your household in.

I'd like to see what % is internat and external. I looked for a few minutes but couldnt find a definitive answer.

nvm found it. http://www.ustreas.gov/tic/debta309.html

looks like its all external. As of 3/31/09 external debt = $13.399 trillion

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Zensal
Look, it doesn't matter what party you belong to, this is insane!!! We cannot keep deficit spending. $12.1 Trillion dollars. Thats $12,100,000,000,000. A quick google search puts the GDP at $13.84 trillion dollars. I do not think that we will ever be able to pay this back.

And IIRC, this does not include the debt owed to the Social Security Trust Fund.

The vast majority of this debt is owed internally. If you owe your wife $20 or vice versa, does it actually matter from a family finance perspective if she 'pays you back' or not?

You might have a point, if your analogy wasn't idiotic. I'm going to try this one on my mortgage bank.

Unless your mortgage lender is a member of your family, you might want to hold up on calling someone idiotic.

Oh, so the US debt is held by various family members who are just going to forgive it? :roll:

To other posters, IIRC it's about 75% US 25% foreign.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Skitzer

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Zensal
Look, it doesn't matter what party you belong to, this is insane!!! We cannot keep deficit spending. $12.1 Trillion dollars. Thats $12,100,000,000,000. A quick google search puts the GDP at $13.84 trillion dollars. I do not think that we will ever be able to pay this back.

And IIRC, this does not include the debt owed to the Social Security Trust Fund.

The vast majority of this debt is owed internally. If you owe your wife $20 or vice versa, does it actually matter from a family finance perspective if she 'pays you back' or not?

Vast majority? Are you sure about that? Where do you get your figures from?

Yes, I'm quite sure. The vast majority. People always talk about how China has this stranglehold over the US due to how much of our debt it holds, when in reality it has about 10% of it. (not that this isn't an issue, just not nearly as large of one as people think.)

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Zensal
Look, it doesn't matter what party you belong to, this is insane!!! We cannot keep deficit spending. $12.1 Trillion dollars. Thats $12,100,000,000,000. A quick google search puts the GDP at $13.84 trillion dollars. I do not think that we will ever be able to pay this back.

And IIRC, this does not include the debt owed to the Social Security Trust Fund.

The vast majority of this debt is owed internally. If you owe your wife $20 or vice versa, does it actually matter from a family finance perspective if she 'pays you back' or not?

You might have a point, if your analogy wasn't idiotic. I'm going to try this one on my mortgage bank.

Unless your mortgage lender is a member of your family, you might want to hold up on calling someone idiotic.

Better qualify that with a member of your family under your roof, or that is in the same budget you operate your household in.

I'd like to see what % is internat and external. I looked for a few minutes but couldnt find a definitive answer.

It's approximately 73% internal, 27% external.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Zensal
Look, it doesn't matter what party you belong to, this is insane!!! We cannot keep deficit spending. $12.1 Trillion dollars. Thats $12,100,000,000,000. A quick google search puts the GDP at $13.84 trillion dollars. I do not think that we will ever be able to pay this back.

And IIRC, this does not include the debt owed to the Social Security Trust Fund.

The vast majority of this debt is owed internally. If you owe your wife $20 or vice versa, does it actually matter from a family finance perspective if she 'pays you back' or not?

You might have a point, if your analogy wasn't idiotic. I'm going to try this one on my mortgage bank.

Unless your mortgage lender is a member of your family, you might want to hold up on calling someone idiotic.

Better qualify that with a member of your family under your roof, or that is in the same budget you operate your household in.

I'd like to see what % is internat and external. I looked for a few minutes but couldnt find a definitive answer.

It's approximately 73% internal, 27% external.

Not according to the treasury. 13.399 trillion external as of 3/31/09 (link on prev page

and CIA lists it is 12.5 trillion as of 2007 https://www.cia.gov/library/pu...ankorder/2079rank.html

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Unless your mortgage lender is a member of your family, you might want to hold up on calling someone idiotic.

Oh, so the US debt is held by various family members who are just going to forgive it? :roll:

To other posters, IIRC it's about 75% US 25% foreign.

No, they aren't going to forgive it... it just doesn't matter. If your family operates in the same way that most families do, it operates as a cohesive economic unit. If you owe your wife $20 and you pay her back, the net worth of your family changed by zero dollars. If your family owes this to an external entity like say, a mortgage bank, when you pay them back your net worth decreases. When the US government pays a US citizen $20, the net worth and productivity of the US does not change. When the US pays China $20, we lose $20. Foreign owned debt is actual borrowed productivity from somewhere else. Internally owed debt is not.

This isn't a perfect analogy (as people are not entirely economically contained within countries, etc... etc.), but you get the idea.

 

[alchemize]

Actually I'm with you Eskimospy. We just write off all that "family debt", stop paying social security, medicare, TARP, all that other public/private welfare bullshit and we're free and clear. Great idea!

Inflate it away...