Deciding on the Corsair H50

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aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
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Credit sexybastard.

i7 920 4.2ghz 1.328v H50 mod with a dual rad. Temps went from 74-79c to 64c-71c. So the block is hardly a limiting factor.

Sorry i'll go with ruby more, unless its skinnee... but ruby's results were not suprising.. meaning it was kinda expected on that drive block.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2062172

From Ruby:

First here's idle temps with a single fan on the H50 Radiator:



Loading up with some Linpack action after a few min:



Idle iced down:



Under load under ice:



Actual pix of the hardware:







Some other (important) facts to consider:

Hardware used:

Dawn's "beater" system!
Asus P6T7WS "supercomputer" motherboard w/latest BIOS 604
12GB Corsair Dominator 1866 memory at 8-8-8-20-1T 1.635V
Intel Xeon W3520 CPU at 208x21, 1.3V 1.25VTT

So Schmide when you have a chilled ice bath and you only get a 20c reduction.. that is considered not limited on the block side?
If she ran a ApogeeGT even on a chilled ice loop, are u aware that ruby should not have even broken 50C?

Also that radiator is about the same rad you find on a HWLabs GTS, so i know its able to handle up to 150W with a good fan, under a chilled bucket, it should of not had a problem with that cpu.



Oh Last note.. on everyone who owns a medium to high end water system... WE are currently cpu block limited as well, but our limit is way beyond the H5O direct drive.
 
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nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
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when you have a chilled ice bath and you only get a 20c reduction.. that is considered not limited on the block side?

What you are saying doesn't make sense... Yes, the block is the limiting factor when you submerge the rad in ice water, but that is because the act of submerging the rad makes it more effective. Every system has a bottleneck, if you remove one it just shifts to another. I would be really surprised if you could gain 20C by running a different block and pump with the H50's slim rad.

Oh Last note.. on everyone who owns a medium to high end water system... WE are currently cpu block limited as well, but our limit is way beyond the H5O direct drive.

This is true, but that is because we're running loops with larger rads than a slim 120.1. I know you have way more wc experience then me (and I appreciate all the advice you given me), but when is the last time you've run an OC'ed LGA 1366 cpu on a single 120.1 rad? I did it a few months ago, upgraded nothing else but the rad, and gained 15-20C. Subsequently, I upgraded the CPU block and gained about 5C. Are you saying I could have just upgraded the CPU block and gained 25C while still using the single 120.1 rad?
 

Schmide

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2002
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Sorry i'll go with ruby more, unless its skinnee... but ruby's results were not suprising.. meaning it was kinda expected on that drive block.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2062172
(snip)

So Schmide when you have a chilled ice bath and you only get a 20c reduction.. that is considered not limited on the block side?
If she ran a ApogeeGT even on a chilled ice loop, are u aware that ruby should not have even broken 50C?



OK... keep telling ur self that its not block limited.

Why would you discount someone else's work unless you have some pre-bias to wish for failure? Could it be that Ruby didn't have the greatest mount? Or a hot chip at its limit? Or some other factor? Unless the testing was done with multiple mounts to eliminate unforeseen variables, it is really inconclusive and should generally be taken a the same level as the good results.

There are many factors that make up the total c/w of a cooling system, typically worst block to best block you're looking at a few hundredths of a c/w. Other factors aside, at 200w 5c difference equals around 0.025 c/w.

Considering that the latest and greatest systems with great pumps and large rads cant get these chips to run under 65c at this high level, it would seem that the chip's own thermal interface is nearing its limits.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
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Sep 28, 2005
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What you are saying doesn't make sense... Yes, the block is the limiting factor when you submerge the rad in ice water, but that is because the act of submerging the rad makes it more effective. Every system has a bottleneck, if you remove one it just shifts to another. I would be really surprised if you could gain 20C by running a different block and pump with the H50's slim rad.



This is true, but that is because we're running loops with larger rads than a slim 120.1.

*sigh* because ruby is holding a constant or as close to as constant of a controlled ambient you can run.

By submerging the rad, your removing the heat exchanger element and going looking straight at the heat pick up element.

When your tubes are cold to the touch... coolant is cold to the touch, yet your system is pulling air temps....

There is something very limiting the system. And i couldnt careless if she was running a overclocked gulftown under there because... those temps are a bit too high for a chilled ice bath.

In short.. ruby could of thrown in an average fish hobby pump inside the bucket... with tubing.. onto a solid copper block and laid it on her cpu and would of gotten better temps.

NO JOKE. So to me that means the direct drive is really limited.

Why would you discount someone else's work unless you have some pre-bias to wish for failure?

1 word..

AMBIENT..

did he list ANYTHING about ambient?
While as ruby has Controlled Ambients... IE. ICE BATH.

Why do you think skinnee always puts a delta ambient? Because he knows without one he would get RAPED by people like me.

You need to document ambient.. and how that ambient is playing with your final temp or the test just doesnt mean anything.

You could open a door and have a swing of 5C on a water system from pulling cooler ambient.

I can build a 120x1 system which would gobble my 120x3 system.. oh.. but i would need to put it in an ice bath also.
You see without what type of work is being put on the system though ambient... its too hard to say this test is valid, or that the drive block isnt severally limited.

There are many factors that make up the total c/w of a cooling system, typically worst block to best block you're looking at a few hundredths of a c/w. Other factors aside, at 200w 5c difference equals around 0.025 c/w.

Schmide.. blocks itself in h2o have its own sub catigory... So you may be looking at a few hundredths of a c/w however in RL it comes out to as much as 7C, and thees on real CPU waterblocks.



The H5O direct drive wouldnt even rank on that ladder.
As YellowBeard once said.. its a great little start. Its not to be classed with real water because target market is after the air sinks.

You can not throw this system to compare it against a real h2o setup.
It be like you bringing in a ricer civic to the track and racing it against NASCAR cars.

If your gonna put in all that work like add a new radiator, and other sort, as well as replace the coolant, and tubing.. gah.. all that work would of been better invested in a used mid-tier setup.

Last NOTE:
ThermalTake, Zalman, and COOLIT ARE NOT REAL WATER PRODUCTS EITHER!
TT has even earned the name as "Cancer to the H2O industry"
Meaning if u add TT to anything.. your entire system will blow up or meet some unfortunate doom down the road.
 
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Schmide

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2002
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1 word..

AMBIENT..

did he list ANYTHING about ambient?
While as ruby has Controlled Ambients... IE. ICE BATH.

So you discount other factors and take an extreme example as proof over a common setup? For one there wasn't any flow within the ice bath so the Ambients where hardly controlled.

Why do you think skinnee always puts a delta ambient? Because he knows without one he would get RAPED by people like me.

It's good science as well.

You need to document ambient.. and how that ambient is playing with your final temp or the test just doesnt mean anything.

Just because the level of testing wasn't ideal, it does not exclude the drawing of conclusions. If sexybastard's ambients/mounting were relatively static, there was a 10c drop by just changing the radiator. If other factors were involved, it may be less or more.

You could open a door and have a swing of 5C on a water system from pulling cooler ambient.

Yeah it's best not to draw conclusions when extreme environments are used. Cough Cough ice baths.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
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Credit sexybastard.
So the block is hardly a limiting factor.
Didnt you say this?

So you discount other factors and take an extreme example as proof over a common setup?.

yes ruby is holding her coolant a lot more stable then your proof is.

While your proof the guy could of moved his system after the retube and gotten mixed results.

But how do we know? We dont.. vs Ruby we Do.

Closed loop works on equalibirum.
Both Tests was done without OPENING the sealed unit.
Radiator is now saturated, so that is no longer looked at the system.
Block is not pulling anywhere near the same delta ambient it should pick up @ given temp.

Block is indeed lacking.

Do you honestly want me to debate block design with you and tell you why its lacking?
If you ask anyone whose been in this hobby for a while to take a look at its base, they would say "what base."

This the average base for an already limited high end block bases.. now compare it with a H5O.




Can corsair improve the base? sure they can... will they? Not unless we ask them for it, and it doesnt increase the cost on the product.
But how can we ask them for it? By showing them its lacking, and a bit of tweeks are needed to improve its functionality.

FOUND THE BASE ON THE H5O.. so you compare yourself...
 
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PCJake

Senior member
Apr 4, 2008
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air sink? your going back to air now??

LOL.... did we scare ya with all the water talk?

Not scare...annoy, perhaps

I've already said that I changed my mind about water cooling, but no big deal. I'd rather just get the NH-D14 and be happy than start up another war.
 

Schmide

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2002
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A little mis-mashed putting a couple posts together

I can build a 120x1 system which would gobble my 120x3 system.. oh.. but i would need to put it in an ice bath also.
You see without what type of work is being put on the system though ambient... its too hard to say this test is valid, or that the drive block isnt severally limited.

Yet you directly draw that conclusion. Here?

But looking at ruby's results with an ice bucket and water... its not the rad thats limited.. its the drive block.

Continuing.

Schmide.. blocks itself in h2o have its own sub catigory... So you may be looking at a few hundredths of a c/w however in RL it comes out to as much as 7C, and thees on real CPU waterblocks.

and

Didnt you say this?
Credit sexybastard.
So the block is hardly a limiting factor.

I am not discounting the difference in performance with regards to blocks. I am inferring the H50 is mostly lacking in the radiator department. I've always argued all variables aside the radiator is generally the biggest factor in a watercooling system.



The H5O direct drive wouldnt even rank on that ladder.

Since the graph goes up to 80c and we've seen plenty of systems being held at there with the lacking rad of the H50, it would be high but on the ladder.

As YellowBeard once said.. its a great little start. Its not to be classed with real water because target market is after the air sinks.

I agree.

You can not throw this system to compare it against a real h2o setup.
It be like you bringing in a ricer civic to the track and racing it against NASCAR cars.

As car analogies go, that's a little lacking. ASSCARS are professional multi-million dollar cars that if related to the world of cooling would probably classify as vapor. (I'm reserving LN for dragsters)

If your gonna put in all that work like add a new radiator, and other sort, as well as replace the coolant, and tubing.. gah.. all that work would of been better invested in a used mid-tier setup.

Yeah but you could also say, if you already have one and would like to improve it a bit, get a cheap or used dual rad. You can get 1/4" fittings for a rad.

With regards to the block images. I'm actually impressed with the image of the H50. It looks like a capable mid range block.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
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Not scare...annoy, perhaps

I've already said that I changed my mind about water cooling, but no big deal. I'd rather just get the NH-D14 and be happy than start up another war.

its not a war.. its just a topic on debate..

I am not discounting the difference in performance with regards to blocks. I am inferring the H50 is mostly lacking in the radiator department. I've always argued all variables aside the radiator is generally the biggest factor in a watercooling system.

i see where the miscommunicaiton came out.
On Ruby's test.. only her test... it showed that the rad wasnt lacking because of the ice bath.

Yes you drop bigger radiators, you get closer to ambient and you get a cooler temp.
You are correct, but im saying the gain's could be a lot greater if they had a better base block.

And that would just require a different milling job so the pins were dug into the base, and the base was thinner.

In water.. base fin height was shown to NOT be greater then a thinner and micropin base.
(which is why all vendors are shifting to this on cpu blocks..)

Having a thinner and micropin base also makes the base less senstive to flow... unless u have an accelerator on it.
And having a low flow pump (H5O) would yield a great improvement from the said base change.

Its all on the base... if corsair fixes the base... im sure this unit would do a better and scale better with lower ambients.

^ better schmide?
 
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cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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In water.. base fin height was shown to NOT be greater then a thinner and micropin base.
(which is why all vendors are shifting to this on cpu blocks..)

Do you have a link to these tests? (sounds like interesting and informative reading)
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,537
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So, what people are saying is that the H50 is crap. Well, from a pure WC standpoint, that may be the case. However, with my setup it still beats my True by 2-3C, and that's pretty damned good for the price.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
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Sep 28, 2005
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Do you have a link to these tests? (sounds like interesting and informative reading)

its someone on XS a very long time ago.

But a bunch of designs was tested and ran though.. and it seems thinner base.. uniform channels was the all time best performing.


So, what people are saying is that the H50 is crap.

no no one is saying its crap.

What were saying is its limited in the ranges of a water product.
But if it fits your application or niche is a very nice product.

But if you got it to learn about water and do a whole bunch of things... then yes.. your better off getting used mid tier eq like swiftech / dd / eK / xspc ... ect...
 

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
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Mine fell to the floor and it still works without leaking. Of course if it fell on the hose it probably would have squirted a bit.

its someone on XS a very long time ago.

But a bunch of designs was tested and ran though.. and it seems thinner base.. uniform channels was the all time best performing.




no no one is saying its crap.

What were saying is its limited in the ranges of a water product.
But if it fits your application or niche is a very nice product.

But if you got it to learn about water and do a whole bunch of things... then yes.. your better off getting used mid tier eq like swiftech / dd / eK / xspc ... ect...
 

yours truly

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2006
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There are a couple of HSFs that I really like, but many of them seem so big that I'd worry about them coming in contact with the fins on the Corsair Dominator RAM when placed on the P6X58D-E board.

Hi, apparently the NH-D14 is compatible with Dominator DDR3 RAM, but the heat spreader needs to be removed for it to fit:

http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=faqs&step=2&lng=de&products_id=34#14

But I'm not 100% sure the P6X58D-E is compatible with the NH-D14. It's not listed on Noctua's website, but the P6X58D Premium is. Are these motherboards almost identical?
 

PCJake

Senior member
Apr 4, 2008
319
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Hi, apparently the NH-D14 is compatible with Dominator DDR3 RAM, but the heat spreader needs to be removed for it to fit:

http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=faqs&step=2&lng=de&products_id=34#14

But I'm not 100% sure the P6X58D-E is compatible with the NH-D14. It's not listed on Noctua's website, but the P6X58D Premium is. Are these motherboards almost identical?

Hello, thanks for your help. I just looked at that very same page with the bit on the Dominator RAM yesterday before I ordered, so it is my plan to remove the fins. And yes, the P6X58D Premium and the P6X58D-E are almost identical, so I don't foresee any compatibility problems.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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Has anyone measured base thickness of h50 vs something like Supreme HF or Apogee XT?
 

yours truly

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2006
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Hello, thanks for your help. I just looked at that very same page with the bit on the Dominator RAM yesterday before I ordered, so it is my plan to remove the fins. And yes, the P6X58D Premium and the P6X58D-E are almost identical, so I don't foresee any compatibility problems.

Ah ok. I've been speccing out a new PC very similar to the one you're building, and would be interested in how you get on. Keep us posted!

Thanks
 

Russwinters

Senior member
Jul 31, 2009
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Out of curiosity; has anyone tried putting a good fan blowing directly at the base (from the side) as well?


Was just curious if that would make much of a difference.
 

Nurn

Member
Sep 18, 2007
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I have my i7 920 overclocked to 4 GHZ, on a P6X58D - Premium, cooled by a $30 Coolermaster Hyper 212 plus. Admittedly, my voltage is pretty low compared to most others (1.21 vcore), but from the reviews I have read, the H50 is not quite as good as a higher-end air cooler like the Noctua (although it is probably better than my Hyper 212 plus, but for twice the price). If you have a well-ventilated case, a good air cooler is all you need.

P.S. Generally, I believe that a 930 needs a bit more voltage than a 920 to overclock to 4 GHz. Your mobo choice is excellent. I just use the Corsair XMS 1600C7 Ram (without the fancy heatsinks), and it's all good.
 
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yours truly

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2006
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Hi, this is a silly question, but what's the best way to apply thermal paste?

I'm thinking of investing in a Noctua NH-D14, but looking at the instructions on their website and youtube, they seem to apply a small amount of paste on the middle of the processor, instead of a thin layer all over.

Which way would be more effective, and how much thermal paste is enough? About the size of a pea, or roughly the same amount you'd put on a toothbrush?

I feel stupid for asking, but as I've never build a PC, I don't know.

Thanks.

ps where have all the smilies gone!?
 

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
485
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Watch this to see how different application techniques work, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyXLu1Ms-q4



Hi, this is a silly question, but what's the best way to apply thermal paste?

I'm thinking of investing in a Noctua NH-D14, but looking at the instructions on their website and youtube, they seem to apply a small amount of paste on the middle of the processor, instead of a thin layer all over.

Which way would be more effective, and how much thermal paste is enough? About the size of a pea, or roughly the same amount you'd put on a toothbrush?

I feel stupid for asking, but as I've never build a PC, I don't know.

Thanks.

ps where have all the smilies gone!?
 
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