Decline of employee sponsered health care in the USA?

[davexnet]

Isn't Obamacare modeled (quite closely in some of it's basic points, such as the
individual mandate) modeled on a republican plan? How come the Republicans
hate it so much?

 

[mizzou]

:hmm:

i thought fully employee paid health insurance plans went the way of the dinosaur years ago.

Every place you work for, you pay $$$$$ for family coverage...yet sometimes employee single coverage is still fairly cheap or free.

 

[lupi]

yes, the shift to employer provided plans was due to the government mucking up the workplace and now we're all getting shafted again.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Isn't Obamacare modeled (quite closely in some of it's basic points, such as the
individual mandate) modeled on a republican plan? How come the Republicans
hate it so much?

Again, just because "some" Republicans came up with something similar to this turd of an idea doesn't mean the majority of us want it. Unlike some people, we don't all drink the koolaid and blindly follow whoever the current so-called leader is and regurgitate what he says.

Although, at the same time, the general republican party disgusts me anymore. Aside from a few things here and there I'm almost more libertarian now as they are more what republicans used to be. Current day republicans are more like the previous democrats, and the current democrats are a rather scary bunch that have really gone off the deep end.

 

[davexnet]

Again, just because "some" Republicans came up with something similar to this turd of an idea doesn't mean the majority of us want it. Unlike some people, we don't all drink the koolaid and blindly follow whoever the current so-called leader is and regurgitate what he says.

Although, at the same time, the general republican party disgusts me anymore. Aside from a few things here and there I'm almost more libertarian now as they are more what republicans used to be. Current day republicans are more like the previous democrats, and the current democrats are a rather scary bunch that have really gone off the deep end.

Your answer is fair However, if, as you say, "some" Republicans came up with this turd
of a plan (presumably a small minority), I must ask - what kind of plan would the
majority of Republicans have come up with. Where is this alternative?

 

[BarkingGhostar]

If healthcare is expensive I am sure part of it is because someone is making a good profit somewhere. If you invest along those profitable areas then maybe you can claim and offset. But of course you have to have money to invest money.

 

[Sust]

It's painful to see that people still think of the AMA as the culprit here. The AMA has almost nothing to do with the # of doctors produced.
The AAMC regulates the quality of all of the US allopathic medical schools and the ACGME regulates the quality of all of the US residency programs.

As other's have already said, the number of residency spots is capped by the Balanced Budget Act of 1997. You could open thousands of med schools to create thousands of med school grads per year, but there will still be the same number of residency spots from 1997.

Please speak to your local congressman or senator to fix the above if you want more physicians available. Im not a politician and dont know what this whole balanced budget act did back in 1997, but changing it to accomodate more residents might cost some money.

 

[mizzou]

If healthcare is expensive I am sure part of it is because someone is making a good profit somewhere. If you invest along those profitable areas then maybe you can claim and offset. But of course you have to have money to invest money.

so the logic is, I pay out the ass on one end, then pay out the ass on the other end and then hope I make enough for my whole ass?

IMO the reason we are paying so much for healthcare in the us is for a few reasons.

#1 Aging population
#2 Everyone on multi-meds
#3 Our science is getting much stronger, and more complicated, thus more expensive
#4 Doctor's afraid to tell customers that the gung-ho treatment may not be necessary
#5 People investing in our health to get rich

 

[mikeford]

JC Penney just did the same, dropped employer paid healthcare.

Once Obamacare kicks fully in those who pay will be screaming, and hopefully voting all clowns that did this to them out.

 

[mikeford]

Isn't Obamacare modeled (quite closely in some of it's basic points, such as the
individual mandate) modeled on a republican plan? How come the Republicans
hate it so much?

No, Romney in Mass had a working system providing most people coverage, but its a great leap to claim Obamacare is modeled after anything.

My main gripe with Obamacare is that it doesn't look like ANYBODY is getting care now that wasn't getting it before, just changes in who pays for it.

 

[highland145]

Hehe, he's discovered a propensity to post in the past couple of days.

Keeps that up and I'll have to toss him back.

Didn't Romney say that if the Dems had looked at the mistakes his state made than they wouldn't have repeated them?

 

[sportage]

Everyone knew all too well that employer based healthcare eventually is and was doomed.
Even the better employers, for years, have been raising premiums, co-pays, yearly deductibles, adding on hefty penalties for smokers, and even with all that employers were finding it necessary to play musical chairs with which insurer would be the cheaper less costly provider to switch to.

Talk about this BS illusion of keeping your same doctor, how about just keeping the same insurance company year after year from your employer?

And if you haven't noticed, for most all employers to attempt with keeping up with rising costs, employers have had to enact employment policies like cutting back workers hours, introducing the work furlough, reducing their over all paid benefit packages, eliminate personal days, and in some cases cut back on sick days/vacation days offered to new hires.

So Obamacare really has had nothing at all to do with this ever changing trend occurring over the last twenty+ years concerning employer based healthcare.
Obamacare introduced a bit of an alternative, except that obamacare is still that dreaded insurance for profit based system.
Republicans can claim Obamacare is government healthcare, but sadly it is not anything nears.
We still live in that old healthcare for profit insurance system, or in other words, still doing it the republican way.

Yes, we absolutely need national healthcare.
National healthcare paid for by raising the sales tax with introducing a hike in every states sales tax in order to pay for national healthcare for all.
Paying 6 cents more state sales tax, or even 10 cents more, while giving you and everyone else in America full access to healthcare along with full prescription drug coverage.
That increase in the sales tax would still end up personally saving every individual hundreds if not thousands of dollars every year, compared with ones current healthcare costs.

Everyone covered.
No exceptions.
No uninsured.
No out of pocket outside of paying the state sales tax.
Healthier citizens.
Fewer bankruptcies.
Healthier economy.
Greater employment opportunities.
Greater employer opportunities.
Increased wealth for the middle class.
Increased access for higher educational opportunities.
Less personal debt.
Less personal debt equaling less national debt.
And did I mention, a healthier America?
All simply due with every America having full healthcare and drug care access.

Revamp the current healthcare system, with total elimination of that profit portion within healthcare, once and for all.
Eliminate every partaker from this healthcare for profit cookie jar.
Tame that beast and the never ending hunger for more and more and more profit.

It is so tragic and so too bad that people rather live with, support the current system we have now, foolishly believing the beast can somehow be tamed by trying this gimmick or that gimmick, instead of every American insisting thru the ballot that we demand national healthcare and once and for all.
And once and for all put an end to this bankrupting, pick and choose, some have some have not, limited, limiting, outrageous healthcare for profit insanity we suffer and die with in America.
It is tragic that so many people actually believe healthcare for profit somehow benefits the public, totally blinded to the fact it simply endlessly feeds the beast.

People could change all that, if they had the balls to vote in the leaders that would give us national healthcare. And stop believing all the con artist double talk that would have people believe America currently has the best healthcare system in the world.
Well yeah, maybe the best of all the poorest third world countries.

 

[Vdubchaos]

My wife works for United Airlines at LAX as a customer service rep. The salary starts
at about $10 per hour for new hires. Last year they provided access to an HMO for almost
no employee out-of-pocket cost for worker, spouse and two children.
They recently negotiated a new "package" with the unions, which dealt with many things,
health care included. Now, the equivalent package has a cost of ~ $400 per month.
This is beyond the reach of many of these employees.

Apply for Obamacare, you might be able to get subsidy from government and better plan outside of employer.

I can only think they're doing this because they know the alternative is
available - they're forcing you into coveredca.com, the California Obamacare exchange,
where most likely, many will get subsidized coverage.

That's the trend, employees letting go of benefits to get them on Obamacare = profit for companies

Remember, government/Obama works for Corps/companies....not people.

READ: so take advantage of that?

Is this to become the new normal? What's to stop other companies doing something
similar?

Yes, ALL/most companies are letting go of coverage

 

[herm0016]

Yes, we absolutely need national healthcare.
National healthcare paid for by raising the sales tax with introducing a hike in every states sales tax in order to pay for national healthcare for all.
Paying 6 cents more state sales tax, or even 10 cents more, while giving you and everyone else in America full access to healthcare along with full prescription drug coverage.
That increase in the sales tax would still end up personally saving every individual hundreds if not thousands of dollars every year, compared with ones current healthcare costs.

How do you figure the most regressive way to tax a nation is the best way to pay for health care? and 10c more may not sound like a lot on a dollar, but raising the sales tax from 6 to 16% in Michigan, or from like 11? in some cities to 21% would have a huge impact that contradicts your list of things you think would happen. increasing the cost of literally everything by 10% would crush low and middle income people. unless you are sick with some chronic thing, i really fail to see many people spending more than 10% of their total income on health care.


on another note: the company I work for is completely self insured. they are spending money on new programs that are not insurance based, but cash payment based. I call a number to get a consult, I can skype with a doctor if I need to and they get paid cash for the service. Maybe that's really the way to go for companies, a system by which the employee pays a fee each time, and the company pays cash. there are no actuarial tables and giant middle man. the rise of cash payment healthcare is upon us, and I see it as a good thing. healthcare governed by market forces just like any other service, and not medicaid/care/insurance companies. We still need to keep everyone serviced somehow, but maybe we are looking at it from the wrong side.

 

[OverVolt]

Everyone knew all too well that employer based healthcare eventually is and was doomed.
Even the better employers, for years, have been raising premiums, co-pays, yearly deductibles, adding on hefty penalties for smokers, and even with all that employers were finding it necessary to play musical chairs with which insurer would be the cheaper less costly provider to switch to.

Talk about this BS illusion of keeping your same doctor, how about just keeping the same insurance company year after year from your employer?

And if you haven't noticed, for most all employers to attempt with keeping up with rising costs, employers have had to enact employment policies like cutting back workers hours, introducing the work furlough, reducing their over all paid benefit packages, eliminate personal days, and in some cases cut back on sick days/vacation days offered to new hires.

So Obamacare really has had nothing at all to do with this ever changing trend occurring over the last twenty+ years concerning employer based healthcare.
Obamacare introduced a bit of an alternative, except that obamacare is still that dreaded insurance for profit based system.
Republicans can claim Obamacare is government healthcare, but sadly it is not anything nears.
We still live in that old healthcare for profit insurance system, or in other words, still doing it the republican way.

Yes, we absolutely need national healthcare.
National healthcare paid for by raising the sales tax with introducing a hike in every states sales tax in order to pay for national healthcare for all.
Paying 6 cents more state sales tax, or even 10 cents more, while giving you and everyone else in America full access to healthcare along with full prescription drug coverage.
That increase in the sales tax would still end up personally saving every individual hundreds if not thousands of dollars every year, compared with ones current healthcare costs.

Everyone covered.
No exceptions.
No uninsured.
No out of pocket outside of paying the state sales tax.
Healthier citizens.
Fewer bankruptcies.
Healthier economy.
Greater employment opportunities.
Greater employer opportunities.
Increased wealth for the middle class.
Increased access for higher educational opportunities.
Less personal debt.
Less personal debt equaling less national debt.
And did I mention, a healthier America?
All simply due with every America having full healthcare and drug care access.

Revamp the current healthcare system, with total elimination of that profit portion within healthcare, once and for all.
Eliminate every partaker from this healthcare for profit cookie jar.
Tame that beast and the never ending hunger for more and more and more profit.

It is so tragic and so too bad that people rather live with, support the current system we have now, foolishly believing the beast can somehow be tamed by trying this gimmick or that gimmick, instead of every American insisting thru the ballot that we demand national healthcare and once and for all.
And once and for all put an end to this bankrupting, pick and choose, some have some have not, limited, limiting, outrageous healthcare for profit insanity we suffer and die with in America.
It is tragic that so many people actually believe healthcare for profit somehow benefits the public, totally blinded to the fact it simply endlessly feeds the beast.

People could change all that, if they had the balls to vote in the leaders that would give us national healthcare. And stop believing all the con artist double talk that would have people believe America currently has the best healthcare system in the world.
Well yeah, maybe the best of all the poorest third world countries.

Zzzz did you vote for Obama?

 

[Vdubchaos]

People could change all that, if they had the balls to vote in the leaders that would give us national healthcare. And stop believing all the con artist double talk that would have people believe America currently has the best healthcare system in the world.
Well yeah, maybe the best of all the poorest third world countries.

Voting will never change any of that anyways.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Your answer is fair However, if, as you say, "some" Republicans came up with this turd
of a plan (presumably a small minority), I must ask - what kind of plan would the
majority of Republicans have come up with. Where is this alternative?

The problem is that Republicans and Democrats can't even agree on the goals for a healthcare system. Lowering costs vs more people covered.

The real solution is to let Obamacare run its course, let the healthcare system be "ruined," then we get defacto rationing which will control costs:

You got money? Welcome to our cash pay luxury clinic serviced by the best doctors in your region!

Only got exchange-based insurance or nothing at all? Welcome to the rundown hospital ghetto where every doctor has a high rate of complications!


The biggest payer of health care right now is Medicare. Even rich old people still use their Medicare because "they paid for it for years dammit." Turn Medicare into Medicaid (aka make it a liability to be on Medicare) and suddenly all those rich old people will self-insure instead and billions of Medicaid dollars are not spent (without legislated means testing).

 

[Vdubchaos]

The problem is that Republicans and Democrats can't even agree on the goals for a healthcare system. Lowering costs vs more people covered.

I think you are forgetting that our politicians work for Corps/Business first, people second (heck probably not even second).

There is no solution, but first step would be to make legal corruption illegal (lobbying)....

 

[poofyhairguy]

I think you are forgetting that our politicians work for Corps/Business first, people second (heck probably not even second).

Agree, any solution that didn't end up with a windfall for the insurance companies wasn't going to get considered. It looks like they were lied to though about the level of windfall (aka the young signing up to get fleeced) so now the taxpayer has to make up the difference.

Honestly though to a politician the insurance company serves a purpose- they are the one that actually say NO to grandma. Politicians don't have the balls to sit on public and transparent death panels so instead they will be recreated at each insurance company.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Everyone knew all too well that employer based healthcare eventually is and was doomed.
Even the better employers, for years, have been raising premiums, co-pays, yearly deductibles, adding on hefty penalties for smokers, and even with all that employers were finding it necessary to play musical chairs with which insurer would be the cheaper less costly provider to switch to.

Talk about this BS illusion of keeping your same doctor, how about just keeping the same insurance company year after year from your employer?

And if you haven't noticed, for most all employers to attempt with keeping up with rising costs, employers have had to enact employment policies like cutting back workers hours, introducing the work furlough, reducing their over all paid benefit packages, eliminate personal days, and in some cases cut back on sick days/vacation days offered to new hires.

So Obamacare really has had nothing at all to do with this ever changing trend occurring over the last twenty+ years concerning employer based healthcare.
Obamacare introduced a bit of an alternative, except that obamacare is still that dreaded insurance for profit based system.
Republicans can claim Obamacare is government healthcare, but sadly it is not anything nears.
We still live in that old healthcare for profit insurance system, or in other words, still doing it the republican way.

Yes, we absolutely need national healthcare.
National healthcare paid for by raising the sales tax with introducing a hike in every states sales tax in order to pay for national healthcare for all.
Paying 6 cents more state sales tax, or even 10 cents more, while giving you and everyone else in America full access to healthcare along with full prescription drug coverage.
That increase in the sales tax would still end up personally saving every individual hundreds if not thousands of dollars every year, compared with ones current healthcare costs.

Everyone covered.
No exceptions.
No uninsured.
No out of pocket outside of paying the state sales tax.
Healthier citizens.
Fewer bankruptcies.
Healthier economy.
Greater employment opportunities.
Greater employer opportunities.
Increased wealth for the middle class.
Increased access for higher educational opportunities.
Less personal debt.
Less personal debt equaling less national debt.
And did I mention, a healthier America?
All simply due with every America having full healthcare and drug care access.

Revamp the current healthcare system, with total elimination of that profit portion within healthcare, once and for all.
Eliminate every partaker from this healthcare for profit cookie jar.
Tame that beast and the never ending hunger for more and more and more profit.

It is so tragic and so too bad that people rather live with, support the current system we have now, foolishly believing the beast can somehow be tamed by trying this gimmick or that gimmick, instead of every American insisting thru the ballot that we demand national healthcare and once and for all.
And once and for all put an end to this bankrupting, pick and choose, some have some have not, limited, limiting, outrageous healthcare for profit insanity we suffer and die with in America.
It is tragic that so many people actually believe healthcare for profit somehow benefits the public, totally blinded to the fact it simply endlessly feeds the beast.

People could change all that, if they had the balls to vote in the leaders that would give us national healthcare. And stop believing all the con artist double talk that would have people believe America currently has the best healthcare system in the world.
Well yeah, maybe the best of all the poorest third world countries.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/03/health-care-costs-_n_3998425.html

Basically, everything we do for healthcare in the US is extremely expensive. Healthcare spending in 2011 was 17.9% of GDP. That's about $2.8 trillion. Total federal tax revenues in 2011 were $2.303 trillion. Medicare and Medicaid were about $788 billion of that. I don't feel like looking up all of the state info, so let's be generous and say the states chipped in another $500 billion to healthcare programs. That's still about $1.5 trillion that needs to be paid for by the public in your opinion, on top of a $1.5 trillion deficit. $1.5 trillion is about another 2/3rds on top of current revenues, to make it financially neutral. You think we can realistically raise total taxes by 2/3rd of the federal revenues? I'm sure there are some efficiencies from having a single payer system, so let's say you only have to raise taxes by 50%. Does that sound doable? Probably not. So you either have to raise total GDP, raise taxes, ration services, or a combo of all 3.

 

[poofyhairguy]

The real problem is the expectations of Americans. "The customer is always right" applies to medicine and it leads to incredible waste due to entitlement. But that entitlement is disconnected from paying, so everyone who is insured (even if by Medicaid/Medicare) feels they have the right to demand whatever they want.

We get sick? Then we don't want a nurse and a pat on the head, we want a specialist YESTERDAY to examine us.

Granda is at the end of her days and is dying in the hospital? We DEMAND you do every type of expensive procedure possible to give her another 24 hours of life. Let someone else pay the bill I can't let go!

We can't handle a NO, we can't deal with a lack of access to doctors. We want it all, we want every American to have it, and we want it now. So the system crumbles.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Issue is at every corner.

People are not exactly healthy in this country
Companies keep selling us shitty food/do their best to eat CRAP
Politicians are in bed with corps/ins companies/pharma etc
And each and every sector of healthcare profession is WAY too overpaid

There really isn't one solution to any of this........but shit will hit the fan, just a matter of time.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Issue is at every corner.

People are not exactly healthy in this country
Companies keep selling us shitty food/do their best to eat CRAP
Politicians are in bed with corps/ins companies/pharma etc
And each and every sector of healthcare profession is WAY too overpaid

There really isn't one solution to any of this........but shit will hit the fan, just a matter of time.

This is my crazy estimation of where we're headed in the next 50 years. I'm just an armchair economist/politician, so this is all wild speculation based on whatever bad information I have:

Private individuals will still be able to pay for better/non-covered services, but it will all be paid up front. There won't be medical bankruptcies, which you can take as a good thing or a bad thing, in certain cases. The wealthy will be able to afford better private care. The non-wealthy won't be able to afford the up front costs, so they'll be in public care.

Lower and middle class people will be on government insurance. Rates will be limited for all care and drugs, similar to Medicare and existing insurance companies who have "networks." As spending continues to grow, several measures will be taken to limit costs:
- Salaries for healthcare professionals will be government mandated based on an HHS scale.
- New taxes will be added to consumer goods that are unhealthy. Take this as far as you want - fast food, snack food, soda, beer, cigarettes, gasoline, video games, etc.
- Care will be rationed. Age limits will be set for various procedures or drugs. Disease stages will be assessed and care will be denied based on statistical analysis. Some of this happens with current insurance companies.
- Preventative care (annual checkups and age based tests) may be mandated.

Some of this is already law in other countries. The problem they haven't yet faced is an aging populace with bad health, huge expectations for healthcare, and shrinking/slow growing GDP. Once that happens, something has to be done to balance revenues with expenditures and I have a feeling what I described isn't far off.

 

[Vdubchaos]

I don't disagree, at this point I think social care IS the way to go. But not "just social" care.

We all know combination of social with private has worked very well in other countries.

Heck, we are already spending more tax money per person than those countries that have social care....so why not?

 

[shortylickens]

I don't disagree, at this point I think social care IS the way to go. But not "just social" care.

We all know combination of social with private has worked very well in other countries.

Heck, we are already spending more tax money per person than those countries that have social care....so why not?

We have to keep a huge military to protect all those countries with "free" healthcare.