Dedicated Blu-ray Player vs PS3 vs HTPC vs Waiting

[Chiropteran]

Hasn't blueray been out for awhile? Why are all the bluray players still so expensive?

Given reasonable pricing, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a dedicated player and just be done with it. But it seems like the cheapest bluray players are $300+, and reading the reviews it sounds like they are all terribly slow and have problems with some discs and all in all I'm afraid to buy one. Then there are the "nice" players with pretty much only positive reviews, but they all run $500+.

Given a ps3 can be had for $400, it seems wrong to even consider the dedicated players that cost more than that. Still, I'm not much of a console gamer. If I buy a PS3 it will just be a dedicated DVD player and I doubt I will buy any games for it. Does the PS3 up-convert regular DVDs to 1080p in a good way? If not, that might be the reason to pay more for a player instead of getting a PS3.

Third option I am thinking about, is buying a small form-factor Dell, throwing in a video card with HDMI output and a bluray reader. Originally I didn't even consider this because of cost, but that was before I realized how expensive the dedicated players are. I could get a low end Dell for $300, it would be nearly silent, I could throw on Vista with media center and get a decent silent video card for $50~ with HDMI output, am I missing anything? Would I need to get a better soundcard or does the HDMI make the sound card irrelevant? How much would I be looking at to pay for bluray playing software, and would it work through media center?

Fourth option is to say f*ck bluray and it's overpriced hardware and just buy a nice up-converting DVD player, and watch regular DVDs. Right now, this is what I am leaning towards.

I don't usually buy DVDs, I own about 8 and only that many because of gift cards for Best Buy I have received over the years. Instead I use netflix, and watch 2-4 movies a week. I see a good bluray selection on netflix so if I did get a player I could start taking advantage of that. I'm just not into the idea of throwing $300 into a player that is ridiculously slow at opening menus and locks up when paused, which seem to be common complaints on the customer reviews I have seen.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Chiropteran
Hasn't blueray been out for awhile? Why are all the bluray players still so expensive?

The new models out today are half the price of the then current models a year ago. "Expensive" and "reasonable" are subjective terms. I spent $350 on a dvd player ten years ago.

 

[Blurry]

There is a reason why many standalones are more expensive than the PS3 -
1) They can output all the HD Audio formats via bitstream to the receiver, which for many audiophiles, is a major reason why the PS3 will always be a "secondary" Blu-Ray setup. In case you didn't know, the PS3 currently supports most of the HD Audio formats, but they are first "decoded" by the machine itself then sent as a 7 channel uncompressed PCM file via HDMI)
2) They may have better video processing capabilities (although IMO, the difference is quite nil from that of a PS3)
3) They are more suited for watching movies (if you have seen the PS3's remote, you'll realize the biggest problem is the lack of a POWER button)

Of course, I am only talking about the "nice" players that you mentioned.
Generally in my opinion, the PS3 is fine - unless you are a audio/videophile. The PS3 is one of the best DVD upconverters - no problems there.

I would discourage you from going the HTPC route - as currently, there is no way to get HD Audio off from the Blu-Ray discs (the HDMI output from video cards is actually a mix of HDCP Video/Optical Out, meaning you'll get HD video, but only 5.1 "standard" audio). Plus, configuring the software and hardware might be a bit of a mess, and IMO, not worth the hassle.

By your inclinations, I think you should just get a nice upconverting DVD player or the PS3 and call it a day.

Hope it helps

 

[Chiropteran]

That helps, knowing that the PS3 is good at up-converting makes it a little more enticing to me. Lack of a remote doesn't bother me too much- I'm the sort of person who hates to pause a movie, usually once I get the movie started I sit and watch it all the way through so it wouldn't bother me too much to have to get up and turn the PS3 off at the end.

The new models out today are half the price of the then current models a year ago.

I just don't understand that at all. So people actually paid $600+ for a bluray player when they could get a PS3 for less? I'm just confused by the economics of it, is bluray supposed to be a niche product? I thought they were going for the mass market now that they won the standards war. Where are the brands like Apex from back when DVD was the new thing?

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Blurry


There is a reason why many standalones are more expensive than the PS3 -
1) Sony is eating $150-$200 a console for market share

Fixed.

 

[Blurry]

Well it's not much different than it was eight years ago when DVD's were first being released. You could get a "basic" DVD player for ~$100, but if you wanted component outputs, progressive scan, and both Dolby Digital and DTS support, you had to shell out anywhere from $300 to $1000.

Same thing applies to Blu Ray now - if you want the best possible audio reproduction, you buy the most expensive ones available.

 

[BassBomb]

Mr Blurry, what can a PS3 bitstream via optical?

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: Blurry
1) They can output all the HD Audio formats via bitstream to the receiver, which for many audiophiles, is a major reason why the PS3 will always be a "secondary" Blu-Ray setup. In case you didn't know, the PS3 currently supports most of the HD Audio formats, but they are first "decoded" by the machine itself then sent as a 7 channel uncompressed PCM file via HDMI)

I never really understood this line of reasoning. Outputting as bitstream should be _cheaper_ since you don't need hardware to decode. My suspicion is that it's really just a way of differentiating a player for the home theater crowd, and therefore allow it to be priced higher.

2) They may have better video processing capabilities (although IMO, the difference is quite nil from that of a PS3)

Maybe. I'd be a little surprised if that was the case - not because I think the PS3 is absolutely amazing, but more because there's only so many ways of decoding H.264 or VC-1.

3) They are more suited for watching movies (if you have seen the PS3's remote, you'll realize the biggest problem is the lack of a POWER button)

Yeah, the lack of IR on the PS3 is completely perplexing, and smells of artificial market manipulation. I'd love for someone to sue Sony, just so someone could investigate for anti-competitive practices when it comes to making Blu-Ray players.

Generally in my opinion, the PS3 is fine - unless you are a audio/videophile. The PS3 is one of the best DVD upconverters - no problems there.

I'm not sure I agree that it's one of the best, but most people kinda ignore the ultra high-end, too. It is, however, pretty good as they go.

I would discourage you from going the HTPC route - as currently, there is no way to get HD Audio off from the Blu-Ray discs (the HDMI output from video cards is actually a mix of HDCP Video/Optical Out, meaning you'll get HD video, but only 5.1 "standard" audio). Plus, configuring the software and hardware might be a bit of a mess, and IMO, not worth the hassle.

This is actually going to change by the end of the year - Asus has a card which should do just that.

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: BassBomb
Mr Blurry, what can a PS3 bitstream via optical?

DD-5.1, DTS, or PCM-2.0. It _cannot_ do any of the newer audio standard, or PCM-5.1/7.1.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: BassBomb
Mr Blurry, what can a PS3 bitstream via optical?

DD-5.1, DTS, or PCM-2.0. It _cannot_ do any of the newer audio standard, or PCM-5.1/7.1.

My understanding is that it does PCM 5-7.1

EDIT: sorry I just realized you were talking about ONLY optical. Ignore my remark.

 

[GoodToGo]

Originally posted by: Blurry


There is a reason why many standalones are more expensive than the PS3 -
1) They can output all the HD Audio formats via bitstream to the receiver, which for many audiophiles, is a major reason why the PS3 will always be a "secondary" Blu-Ray setup. In case you didn't know, the PS3 currently supports most of the HD Audio formats, but they are first "decoded" by the machine itself then sent as a 7 channel uncompressed PCM file via HDMI)
2) They may have better video processing capabilities (although IMO, the difference is quite nil from that of a PS3)
3) They are more suited for watching movies (if you have seen the PS3's remote, you'll realize the biggest problem is the lack of a POWER button)

Of course, I am only talking about the "nice" players that you mentioned.
Generally in my opinion, the PS3 is fine - unless you are a audio/videophile. The PS3 is one of the best DVD upconverters - no problems there.

I would discourage you from going the HTPC route - as currently, there is no way to get HD Audio off from the Blu-Ray discs (the HDMI output from video cards is actually a mix of HDCP Video/Optical Out, meaning you'll get HD video, but only 5.1 "standard" audio). Plus, configuring the software and hardware might be a bit of a mess, and IMO, not worth the hassle.

By your inclinations, I think you should just get a nice upconverting DVD player or the PS3 and call it a day.

Hope it helps

The sound difference cannot be there. The PS3 converts it to LPCM and then sends it to the receiver. Unless your setup is screwed, LPCM is same as DTS MA and TruDD. I think most people just get a high out of the fact that their receiver is displaying the logo of DD or DTS, that's it.

Edit: BTW ,the 4850 can do 8 channel audio over HDMI...

AT review

 

[Dari]

The PS3 remote has a Power button. Not sure why this disinformation continues to persist. It's the PS button in the middle.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: Dari
The PS3 remote has a Power button. Not sure why this disinformation continues to persist. It's the PS button in the middle.

It's not a power button if it doesn't have the symbol, or doesn't at least say on/off. Clearly, you don't have a wife or girlfriend who plays movies on your PS3.

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: GoodToGo
The sound difference cannot be there. The PS3 converts it to LPCM and then sends it to the receiver. Unless your setup is screwed, LPCM is same as DTS MA and TruDD. I think most people just get a high out of the fact that their receiver is displaying the logo of DD or DTS, that's it.

There are very, very few receivers on the market which can do post-processing on LPCM, and post-processing can raise the sound quality a bit by compensating for speaker placement and the like. It's not make or break, but it is a feature that's handy to have for non-interactive titles.

There could also be a difference in how well your receiver vs. the PS3 does decoding - remember that this isn't just about lossless formats, it's about the new lossy ones (DD+ and DTS-HD HR), too. I wouldn't be shocked to hear that there was some difference doing the lossless format decoding, too, but like you said, there should be a lot less due to the lossless nature of the formats.

 

[dmw16]

The PS3 remote (not to be confused with a controller) does have a power button. Hitting the eject button and (i think) the round "PS" button in the middle turns my console on.

 

[Oyeve]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Chiropteran
Hasn't blueray been out for awhile? Why are all the bluray players still so expensive?

The new models out today are half the price of the then current models a year ago. "Expensive" and "reasonable" are subjective terms. I spent $350 on a dvd player ten years ago.

$300? I spent $1200 10 years ago on a LD/DVD combo player. Still use it today too. Still sells for $700+ if you can find one. And it was, at the time, a 2nd gen player too.

 

[Chiropteran]

My TV will be arriving in a couple hours now. I didn't buy anything yet, but after it gets here and I know it's all working I'm just going to run to Best Buy and get a PS3 + remote package. Possibly a game too, I was pissed that there was no PC version of GTA4 so maybe I'll pick up a copy of it.

 

[Oyeve]

Originally posted by: Chiropteran
My TV will be arriving in a couple hours now. I didn't buy anything yet, but after it gets here and I know it's all working I'm just going to run to Best Buy and get a PS3 + remote package. Possibly a game too, I was pissed that there was no PC version of GTA4 so maybe I'll pick up a copy of it.

GTA games usually come out on PC 6 months after release. But get it anyway. Good game.

 

[Chiropteran]

Skipped the game for now, instead I spent like $100 on an hdmi cable. Then I ordered 3 from newegg for $16 total, so the cable from best buy is going to be returned. Damn highway robbery.

 

[KLin]

Originally posted by: Chiropteran
Skipped the game for now, instead I spent like $100 on an hdmi cable. Then I ordered 3 from newegg for $16 total, so the cable from best buy is going to be returned. Damn highway robbery.

Never ever buy cables from a B&M.

http://www.monoprice.com

 

[conehead433]

If you already had a PC that you could make into a BD HTPC you could do that for a reasonable price. But for what you're going to be spending a dedicated player would probably end up being less. Additionally make sure the PC meets the necessary hardware requirements and be prepared for some tweaking to get it all working properly.

Hi-Def Ready?

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: conehead433
If you already had a PC that you could make into a BD HTPC you could do that for a reasonable price. But for what you're going to be spending a dedicated player would probably end up being less. Additionally make sure the PC meets the necessary hardware requirements and be prepared for some tweaking to get it all working properly.

Hi-Def Ready?

A BD drive for a HTPC is going to run at least $150 currently. BD playback with PowerDVD Ultra v8.0 (assuming he doesn't already own it) is going to run an additional $100. That goes a long way towards just getting a 40GB PS3. You can get 25% back using www.live.com search by buying the PS3 off of eBay with Paypal, making the final price around $300.

All that said, I have a BD capable HTPC. If surfing the web, playback of .mkv etc. files, gaming, or usage of other applications is desirable; a HTPC might be a good solution for the OP. To do it "right", it is going to be a lot more expensive though. I got quite a few decent deals on my hardware, but my setup breaks down like this.

Antec Solo with 380w Antec Earthwatts PS - ~$60
ATI 2600 Pro - $35
Abit IP35-E Motherboard - $50
3GB RAM - $30
LG BD/HD-DVD combo drive - $160 (actually paid $250 over a year ago, but the price of this has come down substantially now)
HT Omega Striker 7.1 sound card - $80
Intel E8400 CPU - $120 (just upgraded to this and sold old CPU for ~$50, $170-$50=$120)
250GB and 750GB hard drives - ~$200 for both
PowerDVD Ultra v8.0 - $100
Windows Vista Home Premium Full Version - $125 Used
Zalman 9500CU HSF for the CPU - $55

By the time you figure in fans etc., you can easily hit $1000 going the HTPC route. Now if you're using your HTPC for other work or leisure, then one can easily justify the cost.

I use my extra machine (the one with components listed above) to batch encode AVI files from DVD rips, batch encode MP3s, run Tversity to serve files to a PS3 in another room, playback BD discs (obviously), surf the Internet, playback 720p .mkv files, run P2P software, and rip HD-DVD/BD/DVD discs. It's basically on 24/7 and if it's not doing something I previously mentioned, it is running two instances of Folding@Home. For me the investment was well worth the money I spent.

My HTPC even makes economic sense to me at ~$1000 spent, because my main computer would be running Tversity and doing everything else I mentioned 24/7 if I didn't have it. Running my HTPC takes ~100w of power at full load (Tversity, apps, and 2xFolding@Home clients), whereas my main PC takes ~350w at full load (Q6600, 2xoptical, 3xHDD, 2x4850 video, 610w PC Power and Cooling PS). Not to mention my main rig is free to play games, run productivity apps, or get twice as many discs ripped (this will subside soon because I'm converting nearly my entire entertainment library to digital files) and encoded.

 

[kalrith]

I bought this remote for my PS3. It adds a USB IR receiver to the PS3. I then programmed my Harmony universal remote. It has all of the controls I want except for a power button. It's not a big deal, because I almost always switch the disc first anyways, which turns on the machine. However, there have been a couple of times that I hit off on my remote and forgot to go turn off the PS3. It's annoying but much less so than either buying a really expensive blutooth universal remote or going back to juggling multiple remotes.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: kalrith
I bought this remote for my PS3. It adds a USB IR receiver to the PS3. I then programmed my Harmony universal remote. It has all of the controls I want except for a power button. It's not a big deal, because I almost always switch the disc first anyways, which turns on the machine. However, there have been a couple of times that I hit off on my remote and forgot to go turn off the PS3. It's annoying but much less so than either buying a really expensive blutooth universal remote or going back to juggling multiple remotes.

That's an awesome idea! I don't really use the advanced features anyway.

 

[uli2000]

The PS3 cant stream hd codecs via optical because there isnt the bandwith to do it. Same with any other blu-ray player.

As far as the ps3 as a br player...

I find the picture to softer, not as vivid, on blu-ray and upscaled dvd on the ps3 compaired to hd-dvd and upscalled dvd on my A2. I would like to rent something on BR I already have on hd-dvd just to compair and make sure I dont have a red bias.