Dedicated Desktop vs. Dedicated Server

[mitchelt]

We currently run Peachtree / Sage 50 off of the accounting guys desktop, he also uses this PC for normal day to day responsibilities.

The data file is on the above desktop.

There are a total of 3 users who point to his PC and they always complain it's slow and takes forever for simple reports.

I want to look into moving the data file to a new dedicated PC or Server and that new machines only purpose will be to run Peachtree.

Do you think a nice Desktop (Dell i5/i7) will work or do I really need a Server (entry-level)? Either one will have at least 8Gig of Ram.

 

[krnmastersgt]

How big are the reports and files that are being requested from the system? If they aren't too large, the main drain on speed is likely either a poorly set up network between the systems, or the hard drive is struggling to support multiple users.

How often are the files called for, what size are they, and how is your network share set up between the systems?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

We currently run Peachtree / Sage 50 off of the accounting guys desktop, he also uses this PC for normal day to day responsibilities.

The data file is on the above desktop.

There are a total of 3 users who point to his PC and they always complain it's slow and takes forever for simple reports.

I want to look into moving the data file to a new dedicated PC or Server and that new machines only purpose will be to run Peachtree.

Do you think a nice Desktop (Dell i5/i7) will work or do I really need a Server (entry-level)? Either one will have at least 8Gig of Ram.

I'm inclined to think that 3 users isn't going to require some Xeon server system. For accounting software, I don't see why an i5 or i7 system wouldn't be more than "just adequate." It could probably function concurrently as a file server for that number of users.

But let's start at the beginning. What sort of hardware is in the "accounting guy's" system?

And I'm assuming that the Peachtree accounting software accommodates multi-user simultaneous access, just as a networked DBMS system would. FWIW, accounting software of that type is a specialized database application.

My familiarity with this is "dated," but there is usually a server component with a client "front-end" installed on each workstation. As with multi-user database access, there is a record-locking feature to prevent two users accessing the same record from pre-empting each other's changes.

 

[Ketchup]

I would want to look at the Performance Networking tabs on Task Manager and see what happens when one of the users tries to run one of these repots.

That should tell you where the slowness is coming from. Once you find the bottleneck, you will be able to decide what kind of adjustments need to be made.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I also agree there should be a focus on the networking.

I'd heard of Peachtree eons ago. I guess with my "Veil of Ignorance" about the details, I'm initially concerned as to whether the software (and version) supports multi-user access. But for an accounting package like that, there would certainly be a multi-user version as I described earlier. And I'm pretty sure it would work as I described.

 

[mitchelt]

The current desktop is a Dell i5, Win7 Pro, 8 Gigs of Ram, not sure about the hard drive but I believe it's a standard 5400 or 7200rpm?

The version of Peachtree we are using is multiuser.

I'm not sure about the size of the data file or the size of the reports. Checking that at this moment would "inappropriate".

My goal is to get my ducks in a row now, so when the time comes, I will be able to set things up in a better fashion. This also goes for the main server which at best, can be described as antiquated.

Thanks.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

The current desktop is a Dell i5, Win7 Pro, 8 Gigs of Ram, not sure about the hard drive but I believe it's a standard 5400 or 7200rpm?

The version of Peachtree we are using is multiuser.

I'm not sure about the size of the data file or the size of the reports. Checking that at this moment would "inappropriate".

My goal is to get my ducks in a row now, so when the time comes, I will be able to set things up in a better fashion. This also goes for the main server which at best, can be described as antiquated.

Thanks.

The problem with simultaneous workstation and "server" usage might include the way the system is tweaked to favor user programs versus background processes. And I'd also look at your printer(s), length of the reports and how the reports are generated. I've seen printers take "forever" dealing with report outputs, whereas a simple text output mode is much quicker.

But again -- my experience with these things is "dated." I just cannot imagine how an i5 system is "too slow" for an accounting program like that, especially with only three other users. How does the program behave to any one of those users when they are only updating files or posting new transactions?

Throwing an extra computer into the mix with "all-server" duties is only going to make things better. It sounds to me that the current configuration is some type of "peer-to-peer." With the "accounting-guy's" machine serving as both workstation and server, any small business even with the small number of users would benefit from separating those functions with an extra system.

That only leaves the question about an OS choice for the server, but I'd think you'd get by just fine with a "Server Essentials" version. I'd even seen an article at Maximum PC touting Windows 8.1 as replacement for WHS -- which was essentially a scaled-down Win 2008 server R2 product.

 

[mfenn]

The current desktop is a Dell i5, Win7 Pro, 8 Gigs of Ram, not sure about the hard drive but I believe it's a standard 5400 or 7200rpm?

The version of Peachtree we are using is multiuser.

I'm not sure about the size of the data file or the size of the reports. Checking that at this moment would "inappropriate".

My goal is to get my ducks in a row now, so when the time comes, I will be able to set things up in a better fashion. This also goes for the main server which at best, can be described as antiquated.

Thanks.

Without information as to the actual performance bottleneck, it's hard to make a solid recommendation. We can only say general things like "yes, separating the functions probably a good idea".

 

[mitchelt]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to post your comments and suggestions...I always find it amazing that people are so willing to help.

After doing a bunch of research I found that Peachtree in Multiuser mode is optimized for Windows Server 2012. Seeing that we will not be exceeding 25 users, it looks like Windows Server 2012 Essentials (thanks BonzaiDuck) will work for us and it's nice it supports 2 CPU's.

Because I want to also upgrade our very old file server, I now have to decide whether to get one mid-range Server that can handle the file serving and Peachtree or get two entry-level ones.

We only have a total of 10 users (3 Peachtree users) they hit the server to login (Active Directory) and store MS Office Files and PDF's/Image files. Email is via our Website Hosting company.

I would think the following configuration could handle all of our needs on 1 server, about $3500 + OS.

Dell PowerEdge T430 PowerEdge T430 Server
DUAL - Processor Intel® Xeon® E5-2620 v3 2.4GHz,15M Cache,8.00GT/s QPI,Turbo,HT,6C/12T (85W) Max Mem 1866MHz edit
32GB RDIMM, 2133MT/s, Dual Rank, x4 Data Width
(I won't bother you guys right now Hwith DD's and Raid configuration)

What do you think?

Thanks!

 

[nsafreak]

That server will be more than sufficient for the tasks that you described. TBH you would probably be fine with a single CPU if you're looking to constrain costs a bit. Don't forget, RAID is not a backup it's just a form of redundancy. It's a good thing to have but you will still need to setup a backup solution, especially for something as important as accounting files.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I may be speaking from "dated experience" as I said. But with ten users, I'd suspect (as nsafreak said), the six cores of a single Xeon E5-2620 would be . . . beyond adequate.

Since it's a business situation, I suppose you could attempt to define a "project' with "upgrade phases" so as to avoid investing unnecessarily.

I see the basic "starting price" is about $1,500. Can't tell whether that includes only one CPU or two, but I'd think it's one. That leaves you to define your storage solution.

Also, I'm not sure there would be a need for 32GB of memory. Somebody correct me if you feel like it! These things aren't major issues except for trimming the initial outlay.

 

[mitchelt]

Thank you for the tips...I'm a guy, what can I say...I like overkill.

Perhaps the best way to go is get a server that can handle 2 cpu's but only go with 1 for now and that gives me room to expand. Same with the ram, I can start with 16gig and go from there. Can you install the 2nd CPU later on without having to reconfigure things?

That will take the price down quite a bit.

Thank you for the Raid reminder...we do have an offsite backup service that I have tested once in a while to make sure all is well.

 

[Ketchup]

I'll admit it, I am a bit confused here. First we are talking about the accounting guy's pc.

Then we are talking about a "Dell i5, Win7 Pro, 8 Gigs of Ram, not sure about the hard drive but I believe it's a standard 5400 or 7200rpm?"

Is this the computer the software is on, or is this the sever you are talking about upgrading to:

Dell PowerEdge T430 PowerEdge T430 Server
DUAL - Processor Intel® Xeon® E5-2620 v3 2.4GHz,15M Cache,8.00GT/s QPI,Turbo,HT,6C/12T (85W) Max Mem 1866MHz edit
32GB RDIMM, 2133MT/s, Dual Rank, x4 Data Width
(I won't bother you guys right now Hwith DD's and Raid configuration)

Which really sounds like overkill for 25 users, and " We only have a total of 10 users (3 Peachtree users) they hit the server to login (Active Directory) and store MS Office Files and PDF's/Image files. Email is via our Website Hosting company."

Like I said above, you really need to be looking at network, CPU, and RAM utilization (on client and server sides (and server includes the PC running Peachtree ATM)) instead of just guessing what will fix the problem.

If you have sever users storing files on the server all day long, that can really clog up things. Possibly silly question, but what is your network like? Is everyone on gigabit ethernet? 100 megabit? wifi?

I am not trying to by rude, just explaining what I see from the info you have presented.

 

[mitchelt]

Ketchup79...
This is the accounting guys PC that currently holds the Datafile for Peachtree:
- "Dell i5, Win7 Pro, 8 Gigs of Ram, not sure about the hard drive but I believe it's a standard 5400 or 7200rpm?"

The "Dell PowerEdge T430 PowerEdge T430 Server DUAL - Processor" was what I was thinking of getting, but it now seems like overkill.

The questions about the facility are good ones, we are going to move into a new building, so I will have the luxury of configuring it the correct way from the beginning.

Everything will be wired, no wifi. I would have to check the PC's to see if they are 100Meg or 1 Gig...they are all fairly new, so I might cautiously assume 1Gig.

The files the users work with are normally Excel or Word...nothing major or big.

You are not being rude...I always welcome advice and comments.

 

[Ketchup]

Good info. Are the switches and hubs gigabit? Can/will the upgrades be postponed to the new facility?

 

[Burpo]

Brand new and still overkill for file server. Just add what ever ram & hard drives you want..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-PowerE...429?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4194f62495

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Brand new and still overkill for file server. Just add what ever ram & hard drives you want..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-PowerE...429?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4194f62495

I have a minor question.

He mentioned "an old file server."

What sort of hardware in that system?

I'm sort of surprised that it had never been attempted to put the Peachtree "server-end" on that system, and see what develops. Would it have been "the accounting guy's" choice to install Peachtree on his system with those of the other two users without exploiting the file-server?

 

[Burpo]

You don't need a file server for Peachtree, but it's always better to have one.
The Ivy Bridge Xeon in that server is a quad core (upgradeable), but look at the rest of the specs. Still overkill..

 

[inachu]

Remember that a server has a high I/O VS a regular computer. A server can handle lots more data than a normal Windows OS/PC

Even for a server I would at least make sure it had a minimum of 32 gig of ram. You can get by with 16 in your small workgroup.

 

[mitchelt]

The building we will hopefully get into is old, but I will be able to get new switches/routers to make sure we are running 1Gig. Nothing will be purchased until it's a done deal.

Not sure what the specs are on the old file server, but its got to be at least 10 years old and running Server 2000 /2003 which is not compatible with Peachtree/Sage 50.

Nice price on that Dell Server on eBay!

The cost between 16Gig and 32Gig is minimal so I am sure we'll go with 32.

If I get a server that can handle dual cpu's and start with one, can I add the 2nd one easily or do I have to reinstall the OS (probably Win Server 2012 Essentials)?

I want to make sure what ever we purchase lasts a decent amount of years and does what we need.

Thanks.

 

[Ketchup]

Cool. In that case, go with the best your budget will allow, as ideally you won't be upgrading it for some time.

I do like the idea of lots of RAM, one CPU and room for a second. DDR4 will probably raise the price of DDR3 down the road, so I think it is a good idea to go a little overboard there.

 

[mfenn]

Peachtree multi-user mostly just uses the server computer as a file server, which the workstations mount as a shared drive. So the requirements for the server are quite minimal.

The PowerEdge T110 II that Burpo linked would work fine for a file server and has enough CPU power to do pretty much whatever you'd want. However, I would want at least 16 GB of RAM and RAID hard disks if it were serving multiple purposes. Also keep in mind that domain controllers are pretty "special" in their configuration and there are lots of gotchas when trying to run standard machines on them. I'd at least run the DC as a separate Windows instance in a VM.

 

[Burpo]

The building we will hopefully get into is old, but I will be able to get new switches/routers to make sure we are running 1Gig. Nothing will be purchased until it's a done deal.

Not sure what the specs are on the old file server, but its got to be at least 10 years old and running Server 2000 /2003 which is not compatible with Peachtree/Sage 50.

Nice price on that Dell Server on eBay!

The cost between 16Gig and 32Gig is minimal so I am sure we'll go with 32.

If I get a server that can handle dual cpu's and start with one, can I add the 2nd one easily or do I have to reinstall the OS (probably Win Server 2012 Essentials)?

I want to make sure what ever we purchase lasts a decent amount of years and does what we need.

Thanks.

Wrong about Windows Server 2003 & Peachtree Sage 50. Read the requirements..

http://www.cpac.com.hk/peachtreesystem/peachtreesystem.htm

The server I pointed out w/32Gb ram will handle 25 users for a very long time..
Peachtree hasn't changed much since 2004 when I did a similar install for 16 users on an HP Server (pre- Netburst).

 

[saratoga172]

The building we will hopefully get into is old, but I will be able to get new switches/routers to make sure we are running 1Gig. Nothing will be purchased until it's a done deal.

Not sure what the specs are on the old file server, but its got to be at least 10 years old and running Server 2000 /2003 which is not compatible with Peachtree/Sage 50.

Nice price on that Dell Server on eBay!

The cost between 16Gig and 32Gig is minimal so I am sure we'll go with 32.

If I get a server that can handle dual cpu's and start with one, can I add the 2nd one easily or do I have to reinstall the OS (probably Win Server 2012 Essentials)?

I want to make sure what ever we purchase lasts a decent amount of years and does what we need.

Thanks.

Keep this in mind. I've gone through 4 building moves/build outs with my current job over the past 3 years. We spec'd everything out for gigabit for all user systems and connections. The catch is that we still connect most user systems to the LAN port on their desk phones. These ports are only 100mbit. So take a look at the infrastructure and what setup you've got in house when considering what the users are connecting to.

Having said that my takeaway would be this. If the accounting guy has a 100mbit connection (all pc's from the past 5 years have gbit) from his computer then the network is likely being bogged down. This in combination with the spindle hard drive. We use Dell's and they are notorious for using 5400RPM drives in their mainstream business builds. In other words, they are there unless you specify otherwise. This will be your other bottleneck.

For the server 32gb and dual 6C/12T processors is hugely overkill for 10 people. I'm not saying don't do it because you have room for software expansion over the next 5 years, but it really isn't needed. Your bigger consideration should be the storage. I would highly recommend looking at 10k RPM hard drives. These give the best price/performance. You can do a config with 2 (RAID 1), 3 (RAID 5), 4 (RAID 10), or some other combination. The last physical server we ordered had 5 drives. 2 in RAID 1 for the OS and 3 in RAID 5 for data. It runs an Exchange server for 350 people and works flawlessly. It's also got 32gb, dual 6C/12T processors. Similar to the setup you're looking at.

As long as your server has a solid network connection (1gb), 8gb memory or more, quad or six core processor (higher frequency would help you more here), and solid storage you'll be set. This will also save you some money for any other areas of improvement or a backup solution.

 

[Ketchup]

Keep this in mind. I've gone through 4 building moves/build outs with my current job over the past 3 years. We spec'd everything out for gigabit for all user systems and connections. The catch is that we still connect most user systems to the LAN port on their desk phones. These ports are only 100mbit. So take a look at the infrastructure and what setup you've got in house when considering what the users are connecting to....

Just wanted to comment on this as we have seen similar issues here. What was done to mitigate this was to set up two to three connections per office/cube. Was it a pain? I am sure. Was it worth it? I think so. I am amazed at how quickly I can get files to a network drive when the need arises.

Since you guys will be starting from scratch mitchelt, this is definitely the way to go.