deleted

[WantMoreDeals]

 

[HappyPuppy]

I think it's called fraud. He could probably get in trouble if he doesn't cooperate.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Tell your firend to take some of his ill-gotten profit from his scheme and consult an attorney.

 

[amnesiac]

it's called fraud.
Get an attorney.

 

[WantMoreDeals]

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: WantMoreDeals
really !!!!

I am just curious but is it not the website fault that they had a flaw in the system???
plus they shipped the items with valid receipts and charged his credit card as well....

Is it not similar to applying dollar off coupon valid of specific item but u get it for any item???

Thanks for ur help

If I leave my car door unlocked and someone steals my radio, it's still theft regardless of the fact that it's my fault I didn't lock the door.

Your friend needs to contact a real lawyer, but the quick answer is that what he clearly did was wrong. The existence of the flaw does not justify using it to get a discount on whatever you want.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Wantmoredeals -

Your "friend" may have committed fraud. I find it odd how emotional response is. Do you have a reason to be so defensive?

Seriously - seek legal counsel.

 

[PsychoAndy]

Originally posted by: WantMoreDeals
Hi,

I have this question. My friend recently found a flaw in a major online merchant's website.. The website had great discount on certain items. however, by changing the item number he was able to order various other items for a Same percentage discount. The website accepted the change and completed his orders and shipped the goods to him. Since this worked without any trouble he continued to do this for a while. Recently he got a call from the company mentioning that what he did was illegal and that its against the law and asking him to return the items.

Here are my questions:
1) was what he did wrong? There was a flaw in the website ordering system which allowed him to order the items for great discount. is he responsible for Finding the flaw and using it?

2) Is it legal for them to ask him to ship back things that has already reached him and infact his credit cards have been charged ( the discounted price) and he has valid receipts from the merchant?

3) Can they file a case against him or any other legal action?

4) he sold few of the items and has some with him and he has no issue with returning the items he has with him but if he returns the items can they be used as some form of evidence against him?

5)he really does not want to get in any form of legal mess. he thought that what he did was legal as the website was letting him place the orders and they had every right to cancel them or not ship them....but they did....

As mentioned before he did not change anything on the website. he did not break into their servers or anything.... all he did was change the itemID on the URL and it worked...

he is very scared and i felt I can help him.

any help will be great...

Still fraud chief. If he consulted you or someone else about it, its consipiracy to defraud as well.

They can take legal action, specifically criminal charges. If it was interstate, this just might qualify to make interstate wire/computer/mail fraud.

-PAB

 

[WantMoreDeals]

any suggestions for lawyers....

 

[RossMAN]

Originally posted by: WantMoreDeals
any suggestions for lawyers.... he lives in Bay area, CA...

Scroll down to Attorneys and pick one then enter his city and state then click search.

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate
Wantmoredeals -

Your "friend" may have committed fraud. I find it odd how emotional response is. Do you have a reason to be so defensive?

Seriously - seek legal counsel.

I dont think he's being defensive at all. I wouldnt trust legal advice from here unless they are really a lawyer, and there are only a couple of those who post here.

 

[kranky]

I'm leaning towards saying "get a lawyer" also, but first...

Approximately how much money did he "save" by using this method?

 

[Viper GTS]

Don_Vito would be the one to ask, perhaps he'll see this & lend his opinion.

Viper GTS

 

[WantMoreDeals]

Who is he???

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Don_Vito would be the one to ask, perhaps he'll see this & lend his opinion.

Viper GTS

I am not sure how much he saved..... but he had mentioned that he was getting items for discounts as mcuh as 50% off.....

 

[Yossarian]

Originally posted by: WantMoreDeals
Hi,
he is very scared and i felt I can help him.

By asking anonymous people on the internet for advice. Good job

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: WantMoreDeals
I am not sure how much he saved..... but he had mentioned that he was getting items for discounts as mcuh as 50% off.....

It matters because the amount will strongly influence how hard the company is going to push him.

Even assuming he is willing to return all the remaining merchandise and pay back the undeserved discounts, he'll need a lawyer to work out some type of guarantee that they won't pursue legal action after the fact.

 

[sigmatic]

Let's stop beating around the bush here, the company is Amazon (the "discounts" came from a goldbox hack obviously), and the amount had to have been substantial for them to call your friend. Quite a few people did this, but of course no one really said anything about it. Most people got off with simply getting their account canceled ("unless you want to return the merchandise").

Of course, on the subject matter, I wish to plead the fifth. But I do suggest that your friend (or yourself, whatever) do as they say, if he is honestly worried about it. Especially if the amount is substantial (as I strongly believe that it is, upwards of $5,000 at least?). It's better to be safe than locked up in a cell with a guy named Bubba that's 10 times your own weight in his penis alone.

One last thing, you want legal advice, don't come here. That is downright moronic. Call a hotline, many law students do that for free, look it up.

 

[razorweb]

why are you all asking him to consult a lawyer? has anyone charged him with a crime? Just because Amazon SAYS its illegal doesnt make it so. They would have to prove it in court. And from what I can tell, Amazon hasn't elected to sue you. So what are you going to hire a lawyer for? The off chance that they may go after you? Hell, we all should be hiring lawyers then!

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: razorweb
why are you all asking him to consult a lawyer? has anyone charged him with a crime? Just because Amazon SAYS its illegal doesnt make it so. They would have to prove it in court. And from what I can tell, Amazon hasn't elected to sue you. So what are you going to hire a lawyer for? The off chance that they <EM>may</EM> go after you? Hell, we all should be hiring lawyers then!

Because he committed what is most likely a crime, and you can never trust a company's lawyers to make good on their word. He might return all his ill-gotten merchandise, and pay for what he's already resold, and they may STILL turn around and press charges and/or file a civil lawsuit against him. You can also bet they'll have the records of his sales, and it's not going to be hard to prove that he was paying far less for the items than he was supposed to be paying.

Furthermore, the company may or may not be legally entitled to demand to be repaid after the fact. He may actually be off the hook. Sending the merchandise back is a tacit admission of guilt.

If you're smart you won't do anything until you find out the legal ramifications that will result.

 

[Ameesh]

how is this fraud? all you guys jumpin to the conclusion but if the website took the order and it went through order verification and they shipped after charging him i dont think its his resposibility anymore regardless of how he enetered the url of the site or whatever.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Ameesh
how is this fraud? all you guys jumpin to the conclusion but if the website took the order and it went through order verification and they shipped after charging him i dont think its his resposibility anymore regardless of how he enetered the url of the site or whatever.

Switching price stickers in a store is illegal, why is this any different?

Viper GTS

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: Ameesh
how is this fraud? all you guys jumpin to the conclusion but if the website took the order and it went through order verification and they shipped after charging him i dont think its his resposibility anymore regardless of how he enetered the url of the site or whatever.

Good point. I also wonder how this constitutes fraud.

 

[amdskip]

They should have never shipped his items if they were ordered for the incorrect price but what he did is still wrong. What kind of discount are we talking about here so we can grasp how serious of an issue this is and what did he order (don't mention the company or website name)

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: amdskip
They should have never shipped his items if they were ordered for the incorrect price but what he did is still wrong. What kind of discount are we talking about here so we can grasp how serious of an issue this is and what did he order (don't mention the company or website name)

Too late It's mentioned a couple posts above.

 

[sigmatic]

All that said and done, this is tantamount to taking a "50% off" (or whatever percentage it might have been) sticker off of a discounted item, and sticking it on another item. Then going to the register and hoping that the cashier would fall for it. In this case, obviously, they did. Unlike what JZero said about leaving his car unlocked, this has nothing to do with it. Nothing was STOLEN here. The moral issues are certainly not a topic of issue, this is downright immoral. But the real question is whether this is illegal.

Having a bunch of people on Anandtech with absolutely no law degree or even the slightest bit of common sense at times will certainly not get WantMoreDeals (or his friend) anywhere. I've said it before, I'll say it again, go ask for legal advice from people who either make a profession out of it or plan on making a profession out of it. This is not a game, it's not a "should we impeach bill clinton" debate, it's a matter of legal importance. The question is none other than, "Was this fraud? If not, can the subject still be accused of wrongdoing in the legal sense?"

I really don't think there's much else to say about it, and I really don't think (no offense) that any of you are qualified to answer these questions. Best of luck to WantMoreDeals and his friend.