Democratic National Convention thread

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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
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Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
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Can you tell me why 19 trillion in debt is bad?

I asked this question before and so far, no one was about to answer.

Do tell me one country or empire since the begin of civilization that was able to borrow and spend to prosperity/better future for years and years without any consequence. Just one.

Oh, and I haven't start with the unfunded liabilities situation.

Nothing about the million and million of unskilled ILLEGALS? Nothing at all?
 
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UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
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I asked this question before and so far, no one was about to answer.

Do tell me one country or empire since the begin of civilization that was able to borrow and spend to prosperity/better future. Just one.

Nothing about the million and million of unskilled ILLEGALS? Nothing at all?

Why is it that you aren't worthy of a rational answer...

Answer: Because you're not rational.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,346
15,158
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I asked this question before and so far, no one was about to answer.

Do tell me one country or empire since the begin of civilization that was able to borrow and spend to prosperity/better future. Just one.

The US, in 1946 we had a debt to gdp ratio of 121.70%. Your turn!

Oops I forgot to answer your immigration question! In 1986 Reagan signed the amnesty Bill letting about three million illegals become legal followed by growth in the economy.
 
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Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
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Why is it that you aren't worthy of a rational answer...

Answer: Because you're not rational.

So now can't dispute with what I said as facts, so now pull the "not rational" card?

Unless you have something new to say beside the bullcrap you are pulling, I have nothing for your weak sauce.
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
So now can't dispute with what I said as facts, so now pull the "not rational" card?

Unless you have something new to say beside the bullcrap you are pulling, I have nothing for your weak sauce.

ivwshane just burned your ass, motherfucker....:biggrin:
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
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The US, in 1946 we had a debt to gdp ratio of 121.70%. Your turn!

See my edit "years and year".

IIRC, the US debt went down after WWII and of course, our economy after WWII was booming big time because Europe and Asia and very much everywhere else were in ruins.
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
See my edit "years and year".

IIRC, the US debt went down after WWII and of course, our economy after WWII was booming big time because Europe and Asia and very much everywhere else were in ruins.

Let's move the goal posts, shall we....
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,346
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See my edit "years and year".

IIRC, the US debt went down after WWII and of course, our economy after WWII was booming big time because Europe and Asia and very much everywhere else were in ruins.

And there it is folks! The goal post have been moved! Since I already answered both your original questions you can now answer mine.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
The US, in 1946 we had a debt to gdp ratio of 121.70%. Your turn!

Oops I forgot to answer your immigration question! In 1986 Reagan signed the amnesty Bill letting about three million illegals become legal followed by growth in the economy.

Grown economy because of those ILLEGALS? Really? Then you need to tell Greece and other countries currently in recession that they need to get more ILLEGALS. If what you said is true, then why countries around the world are not jumping in to scoop up all of those ILLEGALS from the US so their economies can grow as you claimed? LOL.

Why 19T debt is bad? Because you can't borrow and spend to prosperity, not for years and years.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,346
15,158
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Grown economy because of those ILLEGALS? Really? Then you need to tell Greece and other countries currently in recession that they need to get more ILLEGALS.

Why 19T debt is bad? Because you can't borrow and spend to prosperity, not for years and years.

Greece has other problems other than illegals.

So what number or percentage of gdp do you think is ok for the debt ratio!
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
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Greece has other problems other than illegals.

So what number or percentage of gdp do you think is ok for the debt ratio!

What about Brazil? Why not scoop up all of those ILLEGALS? Other countries in Europe and Japan are not doing great either, why don't they scoop up more ILLEGALS if that would grown their economies as you claimed.

I want the debt to be stable and plan to reduce it. No, I am not saying we have to do it cold turkey and right away or within a short few years. ANd no, I am not saying the sky will be falling soon. What I am saying is we can not continue with the same current path because it will not be a good future for the children. But of course, it will not be fun or popular so D and R just kick the can down the road and raise the debt ceiling, again and again.
 
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Aegeon

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2004
1,809
125
106
What about Brazil? Why not scoop up all of those ILLEGALS? Other countries in Europe and Japan are not doing great either, why don't they scoop up more ILLEGALS if that would grown their economies as you claimed.
Uh, besides Japan being one country, there is really an overwhelming consensus that one of Japan's primary problems economically is not enough immigrants of at least some sort in combination with a low birth rate. Basically the reason Japan doesn't have more immigrants appears to be social and limitations with absorbing them presumably combined with domestic politics. The US doesn't have to end up going the same route.

It should not noted that Trump's budget plans would clearly in reality massively increase the rate of debt increase and amount of debt, so Hillary is indisputably the far better candidate from a perspective of coming closer to some degree of fiscal conservatism. While there certainly can still be concerns with her plans from a debt perspective, her budget plan details start simply far closer to being realistic in terms of government revenue versus government spending.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,346
15,158
136
What about Brazil? Why not scoop up all of those ILLEGALS? Other countries in Europe and Japan are not doing great either, why don't they scoop up more ILLEGALS if that would grown their economies as you claimed.

I want the debt to be stable and plan to reduce it. No, I am not saying we have to do it cold turkey and right away or within a short few years. ANd no, I am not saying the sky will be falling soon. What I am saying is we can not continue with the same current path because it will not be a good future for the children. But of course, it will not be fun or popular so D and R just kick the can down the road and raise the debt ceiling, again and again.

Your attempt at scapegoating illegals is not only concerning but has clouded your reasoning skills.

Here is the correct answer in my opinion: debt to gdp ratio doesn't matter so long as the money is going to worthwhile things. What's worthwhile? Policies with clear cut goals whose solutions are better than the alternatives in terms of effectiveness in addressing issues. For example; it does not make sense to spend money on military equipment that A) doesn't work B) the military doesn't want or need C) isn't effective or doesn't play into our current or future engagements. Now apply that test to all of government.

I for one couldn't care less I if the government was large or ran by ten people, so long as it is an efficient government at meeting the needs of its people and promoting the general welfare of the country and its citizens.

Arguing for smaller debt is pointless without debating how or what should be cut and the inverse is true, growing government for the sake of growing government is stupid.

Can we agree on that?
 
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agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
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How sure are you of this?




I'm quoting this for posterity since it perfectly represents mainstream conservatism in america today.

It's no longer a movement which represents any ideas, just a bunch of trailer trash only too proud of their lack of quality or achieve.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
What about Brazil? Why not scoop up all of those ILLEGALS? Other countries in Europe and Japan are not doing great either, why don't they scoop up more ILLEGALS if that would grown their economies as you claimed.

I want the debt to be stable and plan to reduce it. No, I am not saying we have to do it cold turkey and right away or within a short few years. ANd no, I am not saying the sky will be falling soon. What I am saying is we can not continue with the same current path because it will not be a good future for the children. But of course, it will not be fun or popular so D and R just kick the can down the road and raise the debt ceiling, again and again.

Let me try to grasp this; you're expecting modern fiat money, neoliberal economic growth, immigration policy, and the complex interplay between these to be explained to some recalcitrant in a fairly brief format.

For some perspective, it probably takes a year of college level classes for the necessary econ & policy background to even begin to understand what must be an ingeniously written paper which can condense all this information in a cogent fashion.

Instead of taking that path, I'd suggest focusing on what's actually being done day to day to maximize productivity & returns. Ie. whether the country is educating the youth, basic judicial fairness, r&d in future facing industries, etc.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
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The difference, of course, is that the is a standard for all presidential candidates to release their tax returns, there is no standard for presidential (or any politician) to release transcripts of any privately held event. Lastly, as someone who has witnessed first hand what these corporate speeches look like, I am not concerned in the slightest bit about that she may have said. How many corporate speeches have you been to?
Presidential candidates should be as transparent as the electorate expects them to be. Why are tax returns but not speeches in play? Both are a measure of character. Both are a measure of what influences candidates. The exposure of either keeps candidates in check.

She probably has a Romney level sound byte in one of her speeches that aligned nicely with the narrative that Sanders sought to build.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,346
15,158
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None given by Goldman but plenty of "corporate speeches" (conference breakout sessions) from the big banks, HUD, CFPB, etc. Related to compliance in mortgage banking I might add.

What double standard is there for Hillary? She said this evening that Wall Street needs to be held accountable. She received over $600k giving three speeches to an investment bank. She won't let us the voting public know what was said. And you think this is fine?

Those aren't paid corporate speeches, those are training sessions. Huge difference!
 
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