Democratic National Convention thread

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Virge_

Senior member
Aug 6, 2013
621
0
0
I'm not and I'm not sure what gave you this impression as I explicitly stated that I was more of a relativist on matters involving political opinions.

But let's turn the tables here. I'm very curious what experiences that might have led to your belief that you're good at determining factual reality.

Honest mistake on my part - people here routinely troll and speak in double-talk so I just lean towards the defensive. I'm a bit too literal for my own good. Apologies for misunderstanding.

My reply to your question is that it has nothing to do with reality and everything to do with just participating in a debate with my own opinion on what the future might hold. I don't really remember how the wager first came about without looking through long lost posts, but I offer a "gentlemen" wager when I strongly desire something to come to pass, or strongly believe in my stance and opinion. Reality and desire do not often go hand in hand.

I grew up making friendly wagers. It's how my peers and I showed eachother we were serious. Someone would lose, someone would win, and life would go on. It was more code for sticking up for what you believe in a world where so many will say something but not back their words with action. Personal choice, right or wrong is irrelevant - we're all just blips on a blip of a blip of a second in the cosmos anyway, right? Most of my gentlemen bets are for $1 - fskimospy just bragged about being rich so I asked for $1,000.. we ended up with $100 because he wasn't interested in taking $1,000 from me.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,434
136
I don't know about honorable, because the term seems to have changed in recent memory, if not in meaning then in spirit. Regardless, I stand by my word and that is enough for me.

There is some small degree of amusement to this entire thing. The more fskimospy attempts to embarrass me, the more petulent it will make him when I simply do it without caring one bit. I won't even remember the act in short enough time - why would it bother me?

We wagered. Currently looks like I'm going to lose. I was prepared to lose, or I never would have wagered. Seems relatively simple to me - I think you're giving me too much credit (if you're not being sarcastic, etc..).

I thought it was a funny thing to have you donate to, I don't see why that would embarrass you. Why make it into a bigger thing than it is?

All I hope you take away from this is that I would have been entirely happy to let this slide if you hadn't repeatedly and childishly insulted me out of a fit of pique when we made the wager to begin with. If you want to act like a jackass that's your business, but actions have consequences.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
I don't know about honorable, because the term seems to have changed in recent memory, if not in meaning then in spirit. Regardless, I stand by my word and that is enough for me.

There is some small degree of amusement to this entire thing. The more fskimospy attempts to embarrass me, the more petulent it will make him when I simply do it without caring one bit. I won't even remember the act in short enough time - why would it bother me?

We wagered. Currently looks like I'm going to lose. I was prepared to lose, or I never would have wagered. Seems relatively simple to me - I think you're giving me too much credit (if you're not being sarcastic, etc..).
No...not being sarcastic. Just the thought of giving a dime (even though it's technically fskimospy's money) to Hillary Clinton bothers me. My oversized amygdala is screaming disgust. lol

Here's a more fitting donation for fskimospy to make in my opinion:
http://www.ottawainuitchildrens.com/our-funders/donations/
 
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Virge_

Senior member
Aug 6, 2013
621
0
0
I thought it was a funny thing to have you donate to, I don't see why that would embarrass you. Why make it into a bigger thing than it is?

All I hope you take away from this is that I would have been entirely happy to let this slide if you hadn't repeatedly and childishly insulted me out of a fit of pique when we made the wager to begin with. If you want to act like a jackass that's your business, but actions have consequences.

And all I hope you take from this is that a wager is just a wager. It means nothing else, except to those who wish it to be something it is not.

I only insult you when you deserve it.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
I'm not and I'm not sure what gave you this impression as I explicitly stated that I was more of a relativist on matters involving political opinions.

Yes we already know your opinion is that politics/policies is akin to chocolate vs vanilla. However as explained this trite belief ignores the reality of their consequences.

But let's turn the tables here. I'm very curious what experiences that might have led to your belief that you're good at determining factual reality.

My work requires quantitative/empirical accuracy.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
Yes we already know your opinion is that politics/policies is akin to chocolate vs vanilla. However as explained this trite belief ignores the reality of their consequences.
No. How many times do I need to explain this to you? What is the basis for this belief?

My work requires quantitative/empirical accuracy.
Imagine that! For someone who's work requires great accuracy, why is it that you continually misrepresent the "factual reality" of where I'm coming from?
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
No. How many times do I need to explain this to you? What is the basis for this belief?

Imagine that! For someone who's work requires great accuracy, why is it that you continually misrepresent the "factual reality" of where I'm coming from?

On further reflection, your explanation of "I think it's all relative" does make sense for this situation given enough perspective. In your mind that constitutes a good explanation, but others simply have differing standards.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,112
318
126
How is that fear mongering? That is literally the publicly stated policy preference of her opponent.

It's literally an emotional appeal using the fear a child has of her mother being deported. There are plenty of other ways at attacking Trump's immigration policies that don't involve bringing a child and her illegal immigrant mother onto a stage. Even if the emotional element is considered an important part of Clinton's positions, you can say "Deporting illegal immigrants will result in many children becoming wards of the state" or something along those lines rather than bringing an emotional child out.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
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It's literally an emotional appeal using the fear a child has of her mother being deported. There are plenty of other ways at attacking Trump's immigration policies that don't involve bringing a child and her illegal immigrant mother onto a stage. Even if the emotional element is considered an important part of Clinton's positions, you can say "Deporting illegal immigrants will result in many children becoming wards of the state" or something along those lines rather than bringing an emotional child out.

Just a heads up that just because "fear mongering" has the word fear in it doesn't mean it's the same as other things that can be written to include the word fear.

Though I do tend to agree that it's fear mongering since it's predicated on policies which are never going to be enacted in reality. They could've gotten their point across more succinctly by saying "Donald Trump just tells plebs what they want to hear when in fact he has no plan to do any of it".
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,112
318
126
Just a heads up that just because "fear mongering" has the word fear in it doesn't mean it's the same as other things that can be written to include the word fear.

Though I do tend to agree that it's fear mongering since it's predicated on policies which are never going to be enacted in reality. They could've gotten their point across more succinctly by saying "Donald Trump just tells plebs what they want to hear when in fact he has no plan to do any of it".

afaik, if two Mexican parents give birth to a child in the USA, the child retains Mexican citizenship. How does it tear families apart when immigrant parents have the option of just taking their child back with them to Mexico?
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
afaik, if two Mexican parents give birth to a child in the USA, the child retains Mexican citizenship. How does it tear families apart when immigrant parents have the option of just taking their child back with them to Mexico?

Generally speaking when people raise kids in some place they immigrated to it's because there's potential for a better future there. Thus if the kids are of reasonable age and acclimated to a better life here it's common for a parent to leave their kid with the remaining parent or relatives/friends/etc to continue on that path.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,112
318
126
If they're illegal immigrants, who is the child going to be left with? By the definition of the law it's impossible to have illegal immigrant parents leaving children with legal immigrant grandparents, unless maybe there's some weird exception involving the stripping of ones citizenship. Is it common that you have mom/dad are illegal, aunt/uncle are legal, and the child would be able to be left with other family? That doesn't sound like a very common scenario. For one, I'd assume that if the aunt/uncle were granted American citizenship legitimately, either they had already been here a long time on visa and were granted amnesty, or they had gone through the official legal routes, which would make me wonder what happened with the parents in the first place to miss that. Additionally, while I know the US is weird in how it handles immigrants from Mexico vs most of the rest of the world, educated/wealthy ones usually get fast-tracked, which in this scenario means that the uncle/aunt are successful but the father/mother were not, in order for the "Better life in America" thing to apply, which should also be a minority situation (close families are usually of similar socioeconomic standing). So until I see some numbers explaining that the vast majority of cases involve little girls being removed from their parents and forced to live with creepy Uncle Pedro, I'm going to call it fear-mongering.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Michelle Obama... What a riveting speech last night. For the first time in my life I am proud to be an American.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Just a heads up that just because "fear mongering" has the word fear in it doesn't mean it's the same as other things that can be written to include the word fear.

Though I do tend to agree that it's fear mongering since it's predicated on policies which are never going to be enacted in reality. They could've gotten their point across more succinctly by saying "Donald Trump just tells plebs what they want to hear when in fact he has no plan to do any of it".

Which really means that Trump can't be trusted. That's also evident given his life up 'til now.

It's highly amusing how his supporters go on about how we can't trust Hillary because... well, because Repubs made her an object of relentless scorn & derision at least 24 years ago. Their brains are on autopilot. The words & emotions come to them as thoughtlessly & effortlessly as the first verse of the National Anthem.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,266
9,336
146
Bernie doing us all proud, moves to give all his delegate votes to Clinton. If you ever doubted the chasm in class between Bernie Sanders and, say, Ted Cruz, well, there it is.

Take us to the promised land, Bernie!
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Bernie doing us all proud, moves to give all his delegate votes to Clinton. If you ever doubted the chasm in class between Bernie Sanders and, say, Ted Cruz, well, there it is.

Take us to the promised land, Bernie!
At least t3d stood up for himself. Bernie outright lied about tpp. The DNC platform is not to oppose it.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,266
9,336
146
afaik, if two Mexican parents give birth to a child in the USA, the child retains Mexican citizenship. How does it tear families apart when immigrant parents have the option of just taking their child back with them to Mexico?

Well, initially, when you get deported and ICE comes to take you away, there's no +1. There's only room in the bus for the illegals, son.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Which really means that Trump can't be trusted. That's also evident given his life up 'til now.

It's highly amusing how his supporters go on about how we can't trust Hillary because... well, because Repubs made her an object of relentless scorn & derision at least 24 years ago. Their brains are on autopilot. The words & emotions come to them as thoughtlessly & effortlessly as the first verse of the National Anthem.
Yeah, same with hillary "goldstandard, uranium, gold mining, Africa dictator supporting, for profit school funding, grifter" Clinton. But she says she hates tpp, she doesn't hurt countries like haiti, wants to give away school, and takes no bribes. She is far worse than trump.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
At least t3d stood up for himself. Bernie outright lied about tpp. The DNC platform is not to oppose it.

Hillary never said Bernie's dad was was associated with JFK's death or insult his wife's looks. Huge difference here.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,266
9,336
146
At least t3d stood up for himself. Bernie outright lied about tpp. The DNC platform is not to oppose it.

Thanks to Bernie, their nominated candidate now opposes it. And she's gonna be President. Madame President. Better get used to it.
 
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