Democrats would rather fight than solve problems

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Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
the left is much more abrasive and deceitful in their comments but all the politicians need to pound sand

Really? I have to admire the balls it takes to say that "the left" is so much worse in the tone of their commentary and much less willing to compromise than "the right". The Republican's entire strategy for the last several years has been to say that lefties (and Obama in particular) are a bunch of socialist, anti-American scumbags who are ruining the country. Or go back even a few years to President Bush, when it was widely argued that disagreeing with the President was treason.

Are liberals sometimes abrasive and unwilling to compromise? Sure. But Republicans making a big stink about it seems like the epitome of the pot calling the kettle black.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Why do people act like compromise is all important??

I want to drive over the cliff at 50 MPH.
You don't want to drive over the cliff at all.

Let's compromise and go over at 25 MPG....

For once I agree with you Compromise on some issues is a good idea...compromising on EVERY issue is stupid.

The problem with the lack of compromise in politics isn't an unwillingness to compromise on important issues though, it's an unwillingness to admit that not every issue is that important. It's smart to not "compromise" on driving off the cliff, but it's stupid to argue that EVERY issue is like driving off the cliff.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,823
49,519
136
For once I agree with you Compromise on some issues is a good idea...compromising on EVERY issue is stupid.

The problem with the lack of compromise in politics isn't an unwillingness to compromise on important issues though, it's an unwillingness to admit that not every issue is that important. It's smart to not "compromise" on driving off the cliff, but it's stupid to argue that EVERY issue is like driving off the cliff.

Exactly. Parties in power have a responsibility to govern based on the issues they ran on to get elected. The thing is, that inside of that is the responsibility to govern. Attempting to render the government nonfunctional on a repeated basis, pushing for a default on our sovereign debt, etc, etc all over cuts to spending that don't even address our long term fiscal issues should be simply unacceptable.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Exactly. Parties in power have a responsibility to govern based on the issues they ran on to get elected. The thing is, that inside of that is the responsibility to govern. Attempting to render the government nonfunctional on a repeated basis, pushing for a default on our sovereign debt, etc, etc all over cuts to spending that don't even address our long term fiscal issues should be simply unacceptable.

And I'd say on that issue, Republicans are probably worse than Democrats. The basic Republican platform is that government doesn't work, especially when Democrats are in charge. So it's in their best interest to sabotage government at every possible opportunity, since in some ways it only makes their argument stronger.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,823
49,519
136
Which was healthcare? Compromise there was no solution at all.

Some things like health care can be binary choices because the two options are mutually exclusive. You can't have half an individual mandate. Most of the arguments now however are over government spending and taxation levels. Of all issues facing the government, those are probably the easiest to compromise on because dollar values are so granular. You could tweak it down to the last cent if you wanted.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81
Government spending IS a form of taxation because you have to pay for all spending/borrowing sooner or later.

Spending/borrowing is at an ALL time high.

Are you suggesting that the problem is that we aren't spending enough?


Please define what enough would be?

BTW if spending is the solution then why did the economy take off in the 90s when spending was cut?
Your post here is a perfect example of the intellectual dishonesty of the right and you in particular.

The point of the thread is COMPROMISE. The accusation is that the right is unwilling to compromise on RAISING TAXES. You made a spurious analogy between raising taxes and driving off a cliff. And when I proved that your analogy was specious, you now change the subject by questioning "how much the government spends."

Both left and right want to cut spending. But it is only the right that is unwilling to compromise on raising taxes. The right is intransigent, not the left. The right is being ideologically rigid without a shred of evidence to back their position.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81

Why don't you explain to us the procedure by which you determine which scientific theories you believe or reject? And in particular, why don't you provide us with the abundance of peer-reviewed evidence that convinces you the MMCC is invalid?
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
Your post here is a perfect example of the intellectual dishonesty of the right and you in particular.

The point of the thread is COMPROMISE. The accusation is that the right is unwilling to compromise on RAISING TAXES. You made a spurious analogy between raising taxes and driving off a cliff. And when I proved that your analogy was specious, you now change the subject by questioning "how much the government spends."

Both left and right want to cut spending. But it is only the right that is unwilling to compromise on raising taxes. The right is intransigent, not the left. The right is being ideologically rigid without a shred of evidence to back their position.
Actually the left has shown no willingness to cut spending.

The right had to drag them kicking and screaming to get the cuts during the debt ceiling debate. And then Obama turns around with a new $400 billion in spending.


And my about spending was that we are spending more money than at any time in our history and we are not getting results for that spending. We have pilled up $4 trillion in debt in 3 years with Obama and our reward is another recession.

Perhaps we should try something other than tax and spend?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Actually the left has shown no willingness to cut spending.

The right had to drag them kicking and screaming to get the cuts during the debt ceiling debate. And then Obama turns around with a new $400 billion in spending.


And my about spending was that we are spending more money than at any time in our history and we are not getting results for that spending. We have pilled up $4 trillion in debt in 3 years with Obama and our reward is another recession.

Perhaps we should try something other than tax and spend?

We are getting results- we've staved off the collapse invoked by your heroes wrt the credit bubble of the Ownership Society and 30 years of trickledown flimflam, if not by much. Otherwise, our situation would strongly resemble 1931.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
But we are also heading into another recession.

After 4 years of Obama we will probably be in the same spot economically as we were when he took office.

Why would we want to keep following his policies at that point?
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81
Actually the left has shown no willingness to cut spending.

The right had to drag them kicking and screaming to get the cuts during the debt ceiling debate. And then Obama turns around with a new $400 billion in spending.


And my about spending was that we are spending more money than at any time in our history and we are not getting results for that spending. We have pilled up $4 trillion in debt in 3 years with Obama and our reward is another recession.

Perhaps we should try something other than tax and spend?

Economists worldwide almost universally attribute the potential for another recession in the U.S. on the European crisis. But of course you clearly see that it's Obama's fault.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Actually the left has shown no willingness to cut spending.

The right had to drag them kicking and screaming to get the cuts during the debt ceiling debate. And then Obama turns around with a new $400 billion in spending.


And my about spending was that we are spending more money than at any time in our history and we are not getting results for that spending. We have pilled up $4 trillion in debt in 3 years with Obama and our reward is another recession.

Perhaps we should try something other than tax and spend?

The Republicans don't really seem to want to cut spending either, at least in the general sense. They just want to slash programs popular with Democrats, no matter how much (or little) those programs cost of how much benefit they give us for our tax dollars. "Dragging Democrats kicking and screaming" would probably be a lot easier without all the pointless "cut NPR" type noise.

It would also be a lot easier if Republicans were willing to budge on the other side of the budget balancing debate...raising revenue. Democrats are supposed to compromise on spending cuts when Republicans are dead set against giving up anything on their side in the form of raising taxes? That seems like a somewhat unrealistic position for the Republicans to be taking.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
But we are also heading into another recession.

After 4 years of Obama we will probably be in the same spot economically as we were when he took office.

Why would we want to keep following his policies at that point?

Because not only has it never been made clear just how Obama is causing our current economic woes, but it's even less clear what solutions the Republicans have for the problem. Giant spending cuts will help the budget of course, but the explanation of how cutting government spending will help us out of a recession seems suspiciously absent.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
What taxes are you talking about?
It is a complicated concept that essentially says that all spending is taxation.

ie. We have to pay for the spending at one point either now or in the future.
So when spending goes up you are in effect raising taxes too.

Also, when you are spending and borrowing at high levels the government is taking money out of the economy by essentially sucking up all the credit.

And even if you don't believe or follow those concepts the fact is that we are spending at an all time high and we are not getting anything in return.

The evidence of the last three years suggests that adding $1 trillion a year in debt isn't doing anything to help the economy and that perhaps we should look at doing something different.


Of course it is all far more complicated than just the above. But what isn't complicated is the fact that Obama has been in office for nearly 3 years and the economy is in the same place where it started. His policies and ideas are failing and he has more than enough time to at least start showing progress.

The second quarter of Reagan's third year in office saw 10% GDP growth. The same period for Obama shows 1.3% growth.

Reagan's policies worked, Obama's don't.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
Because not only has it never been made clear just how Obama is causing our current economic woes, but it's even less clear what solutions the Republicans have for the problem. Giant spending cuts will help the budget of course, but the explanation of how cutting government spending will help us out of a recession seems suspiciously absent.
Regulation and anti-business stance.

The Obama administration is a wet blanket thrown over the economy.

Too much uncertainty, too much fear over what they will do next, too many anti-business decisions. Companies are afraid of what Obama is going to do next so they are hunkering down and waiting for him to go away.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Regulation and anti-business stance.

The Obama administration is a wet blanket thrown over the economy.

Too much uncertainty, too much fear over what they will do next, too many anti-business decisions. Companies are afraid of what Obama is going to do next so they are hunkering down and waiting for him to go away.

Well that's interesting, can you support any of that though? It's both admirably vague and suspiciously convenient politically for Republicans...which kinda makes it suspect in my book.
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,674
482
126
It is a complicated concept that essentially says that all spending is taxation.

ie. We have to pay for the spending at one point either now or in the future.
So when spending goes up you are in effect raising taxes too.

Also, when you are spending and borrowing at high levels the government is taking money out of the economy by essentially sucking up all the credit.

And even if you don't believe or follow those concepts the fact is that we are spending at an all time high and we are not getting anything in return.

The evidence of the last three years suggests that adding $1 trillion a year in debt isn't doing anything to help the economy and that perhaps we should look at doing something different.


Of course it is all far more complicated than just the above. But what isn't complicated is the fact that Obama has been in office for nearly 3 years and the economy is in the same place where it started. His policies and ideas are failing and he has more than enough time to at least start showing progress.

The second quarter of Reagan's third year in office saw 10% GDP growth. The same period for Obama shows 1.3% growth.

Reagan's policies worked, Obama's don't.

Eh, I see what you are saying, but:

It seems a little convenient to always refer to Democrats as 'tax and spend liberals' and imply that what they are doing is raising taxes at this very moment, whereas Republicans are just 'deficit spending'.

If we're talking about enacting programs/spending that will require additional taxes in the future, then you know Republicans have just been 'taxing and spending' as well.
 
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Budmantom

Lifer
Aug 17, 2002
13,103
1
81
Why don't you explain to us the procedure by which you determine which scientific theories you believe or reject? And in particular, why don't you provide us with the abundance of peer-reviewed evidence that convinces you the MMCC is invalid?

I believe in the scientific procedures from the 70's that proved man made global cooling and in man made global warming created by the socialist party, myself and eskimspy are also big believers in getting what you pay for so we are big believers in Al Gore and all the science he brings to the table.

The facts are in and the debate is over!!!!!
 
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