Dems solution to Debt Ceiling. More spending

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trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,681
7,180
136
Tit for tat. The House Republicans decided to use this tactic to force their agenda, if you think that was ok then you have nothing to complain about if the Democrats do the same.

Do you think what the House Republicans did was acceptable ?

Pardon me for butting in....I do think it's acceptable, but only because the House Repubs, at the insistence of their Tea Party whacko minority, have taken a foot out of their mouth only to shoot their toes off one by one, while the Dems are cheering them on as they beg for the Repubs to next shoot their left ear off from the opposite side of their head.
 
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compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,113
925
126
we take in 200 billion per month in taxes and spend 300 billion. something needs to change.

Like living within our means? The Liberals will not stand for that concept.....ever, making this a forever problem, if we keep letting them have their way.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,575
7,637
136
Are we playing chicken with government dependents?

Last I checked, we grew our government so large that the majority are recipients, and an even greater number depend on the government's economic activity just to be employed.

We're talking about an issue where the livelihood of a super majority is at stake.

Soon as people feel the pain, a surrender for a clean CR will be demanded by virtually everyone. This is an untenable position and one should never approach it unless they mean it. Unless you have a solid and concrete plan to fight for what would essentially be a revolution. It would take something enormous to come out of this with anything other than an absolute loss.

I don't think I'm witnessing such a monumental shift in this country. I don't feel it. Some conservatives want to take a stand and draw a line in the sand, but they're too stupid to recognize the facts. To see that, on a national level, they already lost.

Anyone want to bet on that?
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,113
925
126
Are we playing chicken with government dependents?

Last I checked, we grew our government so large that the majority are recipients, and an even greater number depend on the government's economic activity just to be employed.

We're talking about an issue where the livelihood of a super majority is at stake.

Soon as people feel the pain, a surrender for a clean CR will be demanded by virtually everyone. This is an untenable position and one should never approach it unless they mean it. Unless you have a solid and concrete plan to fight for what would essentially be a revolution. It would take something enormous to come out of this with anything other than an absolute loss.

I don't think I'm witnessing such a monumental shift in this country. I don't feel it. Some conservatives want to take a stand and draw a line in the sand, but they're too stupid to recognize the facts. To see that, on a national level, they already lost.

Anyone want to bet on that?


I'll take the bet. My bet is that you are one of the entitlement crowd who thinks this way, as demonstrated by your post.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,597
29,300
136
I'll take the bet. My bet is that you are one of the entitlement crowd who thinks this way, as demonstrated by your post.
Yup, Jask the libertarian looks like a Democrat asking for handouts to a wingnut such as yourself.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,575
7,637
136
I'll take the bet. My bet is that you are one of the entitlement crowd who thinks this way, as demonstrated by your post.

Do you really think Republicans "win" if they cross the super majority of voters, by depriving that majority of what matters most to them? I just don't know how you could see it that way.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Republicans made another political tactical error and the democrats are going to try and make them pay for it. But I suspect democrats will play this to the end and eventually just humiliate the republicans over their blunder. I cant imagine either side really wanting to allow the debt ceiling issue to pass. Shutting down 10-15% of the govt is a far cry from the debt ceiling sending the world economy into melt down mode.
 
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Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,459
987
126
People who try to use the future 'unfunded liabilities' of the US are talking out of their ass.

The people that talk about medicare future costs are not talking out of their ass. No one in govt has ever proven they will change medicare in any way that substantially lowers its cost long term. The cost of medicare going forward is the single biggest budget issue that needs to be addressed. However medicare is the third rail and with the number of voters that rely on it, the issue likely isn't one to ever get fixed until it is to late. As even the seniors that are rah rah tea partiers do not want medicare to be touched.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
The people that talk about medicare future costs are not talking out of their ass. No one in govt has ever proven they will change medicare in any way that substantially lowers its cost long term. The cost of medicare going forward is the single biggest budget issue that needs to be addressed. However medicare is the third rail and with the number of voters that rely on it, the issue likely isn't one to ever get fixed until it is to late. As even the seniors that are rah rah tea partiers do not want medicare to be touched.

Projections of future Medicare liabilities are also bullshit.

Medicare is prohibited by law from paying out more than it gets from tax receipts. We can supplement that if we choose to, but it is certainly not a matter required by law. Furthermore, those projections of unfunded liabilities are frequently done out 50 years, 75 years, or even more. Even low economic growth over a 75 year period would lead the US to have a GDP of somewhere around $70 trillion 75 years from now.

Additionally, we have no idea what the population of the US will look like in 75 years. What if we have another baby boom? What if we all live until 200? The idea that we can project what the makeup of the US looks like half a century down the road is a fool's errand.

Health care cost inflation is a significant problem that we need to address. The BS about future unfunded liabilities is just nonsensical, near-baseless babbling.
 

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
Like living within our means? The Liberals will not stand for that concept.....ever, making this a forever problem, if we keep letting them have their way.


I didn't hear you guys screaming when Reagan then Bush cut taxes to there current historically low rates without cutting spending to match

Then astronomically increasing spending with two unfunded wars and the big pharma give away that is Medicare part D. And continually creating more and more tax breaks and handouts to large corporations.

But to you guys its always a spending problem. While billionaires like Warren Buffet pay a lower effective tax rate than there secretaries.
 

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
Damn I'm glad the GOP is self destructing and being eaten from the inside by their tea party spawn. If it takes a full 8yrs of totally ineffectual government and several self made financial disasters to complete their destruction it will have been worth the end result.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
126
I didn't hear you guys screaming when Reagan then Bush cut taxes to there current historically low rates without cutting spending to match

Then astronomically increasing spending with two unfunded wars and the big pharma give away that is Medicare part D. And continually creating more and more tax breaks and handouts to large corporations.

But to you guys its always a spending problem. While billionaires like Warren Buffet pay a lower effective tax rate than there secretaries.

Wtf, go take your meds troll. Your Regan/bush bs argument has run its course.
The statute of limitations has runout.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
126
Damn I'm glad the GOP is self destructing and being eaten from the inside by their tea party spawn. If it takes a full 8yrs of totally ineffectual government and several self made financial disasters to complete their destruction it will have been worth the end result.

The GOP is not going anywhere.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
The people that talk about medicare future costs are not talking out of their ass. No one in govt has ever proven they will change medicare in any way that substantially lowers its cost long term. The cost of medicare going forward is the single biggest budget issue that needs to be addressed. However medicare is the third rail and with the number of voters that rely on it, the issue likely isn't one to ever get fixed until it is to late. As even the seniors that are rah rah tea partiers do not want medicare to be touched.

Yes they have. Medicare funding has been reformed in the past and will be again.

There's really no big problem with government or entitlements.

What the big problem is, is the Republican party is letting their wackjobs run things, the ones who don't want to fix Medicare or anything for that matter, they want to do away with everything except defense.

Well, that isn't what the country wants or needs. But their keeping the sensible people from dealing with issues that would otherwise be easy to fix.

The only real difficulty is healthcare spending, and not just government healthcare spending, but the whole thing.

Obamacare is a first step in trying to reform that, and you can see how difficult it is to even attempt a fix; there's way too much money to spread around trying to stop any reform.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
126
Yes they have. Medicare funding has been reformed in the past and will be again.

There's really no big problem with government or entitlements.

What the big problem is, is the Republican party is letting their wackjobs run things, the ones who don't want to fix Medicare or anything for that matter, they want to do away with everything except defense.

Well, that isn't what the country wants or needs. But their keeping the sensible people from dealing with issues that would otherwise be easy to fix.

The only real difficulty is healthcare spending, and not just government healthcare spending, but the whole thing.

Obamacare is a first step in trying to reform that, and you can see how difficult it is to even attempt a fix; there's way too much money to spread around trying to stop any reform.

Somebody drank the koolaid, shit I think you drank all of it.
 

csteggo

Member
Jul 5, 2004
70
0
0
So the retort to tax breaks and unfunded wars is "Take your meds" How about address the point at face value. Simple enough. An idea that you can just keep increasing spending without increasing revenues is as ludicrous as giving tax breaks without reducing spending. They are two sides of the same coin. It is fact that taxes were reduced but spending was not during the Reagan and Bush terms. You can feel free to call someone a troll but that doesn't change facts. Now onward away from just talking points. Does spending need to be reduced? Yes. so expenditures could be reduced. But then again if you are really fiscally prudent you would also consider raising taxes also. That way the deficit could be reduced much quicker. Secondly everyone talks about how businesses need a stable environment. This haggling over the debt ceiling should end now. Passing laws should be paired with paying for them. Separating the two caused idiocy like this to occur. Lastly those that think we can just pay our debt and leave our other 'obligations' go are either naive or hypocritical. They are the first ones that say our government is inefficient and barely functional. How do you think it is going to change its billing processes on a dime to accomplish that?
 
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