Desktop CPU upgrades have now shifted to a 20 year cycle.

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jason5220

Banned
Aug 29, 2015
34
0
0
You can't play TF2 with an X2 at 60fps

You can on the recommended servers with the player count cap.

TF2 was designed for Pentium 4 in mind.

In any event TF2 will last atleast 15 years, make a guess for the requirements of TF3 and Left 4 Dead 3.

I can guarantee you even 10 years from now the requirement will NOT cross 4 cores. Because Valve develops games based on the steam hardware survey and the survey say people are budget gamers.

And with the slow ass pace of intel CPU for the last 5 years I don't see people upgrading for a very long time neither. Why the hell would you care for a Skylake when you have a sandy bridge just to get 5 FPS more. Long ago every generation you would expect 100% increase in performance, today you get like 5% and crap
 
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2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
131
106
You can on the recommended servers with the player count cap.

TF2 was designed for Pentium 4 in mind.

In any event TF2 will last atleast 15 years, make a guess for the requirements of TF3 and Left 4 Dead 3.

I can guarantee you even 10 years from now the requirement will NOT cross 4 cores. Because Valve develops games based on the steam hardware survey and the survey say people are budget gamers.

And with the slow ass pace of intel CPU for the last 5 years I don't see people upgrading for a very long time neither. Why the hell would you care for a Skylake when you have a sandy bridge just to get 5 FPS more. Long ago every generation you would expect 100% increase in performance, today you get like 5% and crap

You aren't going to get a consistent 60 fps on an Athlon X2 even on 24 player servers, heck you wont' even average it. Being able to play it and being able to play it at 60 are two different things.
 

jason5220

Banned
Aug 29, 2015
34
0
0
^ got 60 FPS just fine when I had my Athlon X2 5600+

Offcourse unlike you all I actually had a HD 4890 GPU
 

jason5220

Banned
Aug 29, 2015
34
0
0
Jeeze here are the requirements of TF2, dunno what kind of propaganda some of you all are trying to spread but a Athlon X2 dual core is way above the recommended requirements

Like I said TF2 was designed for Single Core CPU very very old CPU, last I checked a Pentium 4 was old as ass. Maybe even 15 years old, and this game has 13 years to go again before Valve gets rid of it giving it 20 years. So if you are TF2 player your Pentium 4 will last you as long as the motherboard lasts you.


  • MINIMUM:
    • OS: Windows® 7 (32/64-bit)/Vista/XP
    • Processor: 1.7 GHz Processor or better
    • Memory: 512 MB RAM
    • DirectX: Version 8.1
    • Network: Broadband Internet connection
    • Hard Drive: 15 GB available space
    • Additional Notes: Mouse, Keyboard



  • RECOMMENDED:
    • OS: Windows® 7 (32/64-bit)
    • Processor: Pentium 4 processor (3.0GHz, or better)
    • Memory: 1 GB RAM
    • DirectX: Version 9.0c
    • Network: Broadband Internet connection
    • Hard Drive: 15 GB available space
    • Additional Notes: Mouse, Keyboard
 
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Yuriman

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2004
5,530
141
106
Where have we come since Sandy Bridge? About this far:










In the more optimistic scenarios, Skylake is 50% faster than Sandy Bridge (stock vs stock, since we're talking about your "average user"), close to 100% faster in extreme cases, and nearly twice as efficient at the same time. In the past, a lot of increases in performance also came with increasing power consumption.
 

jason5220

Banned
Aug 29, 2015
34
0
0
Where have we come since Sandy Bridge? About this far:

In the more optimistic scenarios, Skylake is 50% faster than Sandy Bridge (stock vs stock, since we're talking about your "average user"), close to 100% faster in extreme cases, and nearly twice as efficient at the same time. In the past, a lot of increases in performance also came with increasing power consumption.

I am talking about Gaming my good Sir. I don't see Valve or Blizzard or Riot requiring anything more than a i7 until next 20 years because these 2 companies are still primarily single threaded and its 2015.

I can see maybe games like GTA 6 and Arkham Knight 2 etc requiring high end hardware but for 90% of gamers who play League of Legends, DOTA2 etc I don't see them needing more than an i7 for the next 20 or 30 years

Everyone of these games are single threaded for the most part, run on any hardware, and is likely to last decades if history is anything to go by, blizzard still supports 1998's starcraft and it has ahigher online playerbase right now than the latest call of duty
 
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SOFTengCOMPelec

Platinum Member
May 9, 2013
2,417
75
91
I am talking about Gaming my good Sir. ...

Gaming is likely to improve, in leaps and bounds, in the next twenty years. Graphics cards, potentially can be considerably speeded up.

Because unlike the single core performance bottleneck of conventional cpus. They can have a HUGE number of graphic cores. Exploiting the parallelism of GPUs.

They (GPUs) are reliant on an ever increasingly large number of transistors (on the ICs), rather than out and out frequency (and single core IPC).
 
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Yuriman

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2004
5,530
141
106
I am talking about Gaming my good Sir. I don't see Valve or Blizzard or Riot requiring anything more than a i7 until next 20 years because these 2 companies are still primarily single threaded and its 2015.

I can see maybe games like GTA 6 and Arkham Knight 2 etc requiring high end hardware but for 90% of gamers who play League of Legends, DOTA2 etc I don't see them needing more than an i7 for the next 20 or 30 years

Everyone of these games are single threaded for the most part, run on any hardware, and is likely to last decades if history is anything to go by, blizzard still supports 1998's starcraft and it has ahigher online playerbase right now than the latest call of duty

This is single-threaded performance:




I'm not sure how safe it is to assume that despite increasingly available CPU power, CPU requirements will not increase.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
I'd really think in the next 20 years Gaming will shift more to multi core.

At least higher end ones.
 

jason5220

Banned
Aug 29, 2015
34
0
0
Gaming is likely to improve, in leaps and bounds, in the next twenty years. Graphics cards, potentially can be considerably speeded up.

Because unlike the single core performance bottleneck of conventional cpus. They can have a HUGE number of graphic cores. Exploiting the parallelism of GPUs.

Gaming is likely to improve leaps and bounds in the next 20 years I agree fully.

Are games by Valve, Blizzard or Riot likely to improve by leaps and bounds in the next 20 years? extremely NOT likely. These companies are trying to target low end integrated hardware because thats where the player base is and where the playerbase is is where the money is.

The latest Starcraft legacy of the void coming in 2015 uses primarily 1 thread and 1 core for the most part. These companies are highly successful because their games has a massive online player base. And they get that by targeting last gen hardware.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

High end hardware is NOT what majority of PC gamers own its infact low end. Its one of the big reasons Valve is yet to release team Fortress 3 that combined with the fact that TF2 makes a shit load of money from microtransactions. Its better to keep the same game where everyone can run in any hardware and just release updates.
 

ehume

Golden Member
Nov 6, 2009
1,511
73
91
Gamers. Pfah. I replaced a HD with an SSD, and our 2008 desktop screams along. Pictures, browsing, editing documents. Win 10 will be a free gift.

But this is what will drive the new replacement cycles: MS ending support for your OS. When that happens, if you are Joe Non-enthusiast, you replace your machine. Me, I'll try Linux with LibreOffice on the old dear.

BTW -- what is CS? (told you I am no gamer.)
 

SOFTengCOMPelec

Platinum Member
May 9, 2013
2,417
75
91
I'd really think in the next 20 years Gaming will shift more to multi core.

At least higher end ones.

We already have 36 Core / 72 Thread cpus (Dual processor server motherboards, equipped with a pair of 18 core/ 36 thread Intel cpus).

So in time, the manufacturing and selling costs would need to come down a lot. Then we can have 36+ core/ 72+ threaded, gaming computers.
 

jason5220

Banned
Aug 29, 2015
34
0
0
This is single-threaded performance:




I'm not sure how safe it is to assume that despite increasingly available CPU power, CPU requirements will not increase.

Just something to note, Dolphin Emulator is largely about optimization and tends to require high end hardware.

However as time goes by the same hardware works better as the devs optimize the emulator.

Also another thing to note current day intel cpu's are so powerful you need to cap and slow down the FPS in some Dolphin Games from playing too fast. The same games that would in the past run on the same CPU at 10 FPS.

Just pointing out how Emulators are a bad example for use as comparison because of their very nature. Also people who use these emulators are within a fraction maybe 2% of PC gamers if so much.

I am really talking about the 90% of PC Gamers who also happens to follow Valve, Blizzard and Riot.
 

SOFTengCOMPelec

Platinum Member
May 9, 2013
2,417
75
91
Gaming is likely to improve leaps and bounds in the next 20 years I agree fully.

Are games by Valve, Blizzard or Riot likely to improve by leaps and bounds in the next 20 years? extremely NOT likely. These companies are trying to target low end integrated hardware because thats where the player base is and where the playerbase is is where the money is.

The latest Starcraft legacy of the void coming in 2015 uses primarily 1 thread and 1 core for the most part. These companies are highly successful because their games has a massive online player base. And they get that by targeting last gen hardware.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

High end hardware is NOT what majority of PC gamers own its infact low end. Its one of the big reasons Valve is yet to release team Fortress 3 that combined with the fact that TF2 makes a shit load of money from microtransactions. Its better to keep the same game where everyone can run in any hardware and just release updates.

There is also the ever declining (so far), desktop platform. Being often replaced by ever smaller computers, such as mobile phones, tablets, laptops, ITX (Tiny desktops), etc.

The tendency is for smaller devices, to have much lower performance (in general), compared to desktop gaming computers.

So the gaming market (to an extent), may have to follow this trend.

The MMOs and similar games you describe, have always tended to be at the low end of the graphically capable games.
I.e. they have relatively worse graphical realism. But will work on old and low performance gaming computers (typically).

I've read articles explaining why that is the case. But off hand, can't remember WHY things are like that.

One reason is probably because they are potentially so huge and open world. Which sort of rules out, complicated, highly detailed graphics.
Also they want to keep the internet bandwidth low. Which tends to reduce the games accuracy and response times.
 

jason5220

Banned
Aug 29, 2015
34
0
0
Gamers. Pfah. I replaced a HD with an SSD, and our 2008 desktop screams along. Pictures, browsing, editing documents. Win 10 will be a free gift.

But this is what will drive the new replacement cycles: MS ending support for your OS. When that happens, if you are Joe Non-enthusiast, you replace your machine. Me, I'll try Linux with LibreOffice on the old dear.

BTW -- what is CS? (told you I am no gamer.)

Hi

From my understanding Microsoft has indicated that Windows 10 is their last OS? I am not sure how microsoft is going to dictate the future. Because Valve is pushing Linux even Borderlands 2 is coming to Linux, valve is also pushing Vulkan so PC gamers are getting better options with Steam OS.

Microsoft's days of forcing people to upgrade is coming to an end I think which is why Windows 10 is supposed to be their last OS and become more like smartphone OS where they keep pushing out updates but I have no idea how they intend to make money doing this but if they don't people have better options now with valve backing Linux. So not sure how much power Microsoft still has on PC Gaming.

As for CS its short for Counter Strike, the most competitively played FPS E-Sport title in the world. It ranks as the second most played PC Game on Earth.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/251222/most-played-pc-games/

^ but trade blows with DOTA 2 depending on the time of day for current players, these are games designed with Microtransactions in mind and a 20 year lifespan. As you can see League of Legends commands a staggering majority of PC Gamers population. Another dual core CPU game with a 20 year lifespan through microtransaction / free to play business model.
 
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jason5220

Banned
Aug 29, 2015
34
0
0
There is also the ever declining (so far), desktop platform. Being often replaced by ever smaller computers, such as mobile phones, tablets, laptops, ITX (Tiny desktops), etc.

The tendency is for smaller devices, to have much lower performance (in general), compared to desktop gaming computers.

So the gaming market (to an extent), may have to follow this trend.

The MMOs and similar games you describe, have always tended to be at the low end of the graphically capable games.
I.e. they have relatively worse graphical realism. But will work on old and low performance gaming computers (typically).

I've read articles explaining why that is the case. But off hand, can't remember WHY things are like that.

One reason is probably because they are potentially so huge and open world. Which sort of rules out, complicated, highly detailed graphics.
Also they want to keep the internet bandwidth low. Which tends to reduce the games accuracy and response times.

Yes you are correct. So you can see I was shocked at how people came to this thread and cried "troll" without even reading and understanding what I was trying to say,.

Another reason these games are graphically inferior and requires low end hardware is for online population. If a game has millions of players online, it will attract Millions More because then things such as proper match making becomes a reality. No need to alter the algorithms and put you against players of way different levels. You can actually be placed against players of your same skill.

Therefore giving players what they want, people want a solid functioning game that has good gameplay, proper netcode and is fun and addictive. Also something to note Blizzard and Valve focuses on "artwork" rather than ubber realism

This is why no matter how old some of these games get they always seem to look great, a good artist is better than a architectural designer making real life stuff in Unreal Engine 4. Most prefer an art direction rather than realism, it gives video games the "magical feeling" it always was about.

These 20 year games and 20 year CPUs is regarding the 90% of PC Gamers. The thing though is the motherboard will die before you even get to 20 years but I was just drawing reference on how a CPU can last 20 years and play games for 20 years for 90% of PC Gamers. A 4790K i7 will last 20 years easy at this point we are in, tech is mature now to that point.

The huge issue is people compare 2015 tech to 1995 tech and they fail hard at doing so. Tech now, the stage it has reached and the yearly increase it gets, the games we play today, the microtransaction and free to play business model, the wide popularity of the internet today is nothing remotely close to what you would have had in the golden age of 1995.
 
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SOFTengCOMPelec

Platinum Member
May 9, 2013
2,417
75
91
Yes you are correct. So you can see I was shocked at how people came to this thread and cried "troll" without even reading and understanding what I was trying to say,.

Another reason these games are graphically inferior and requires low end hardware is for online population. If a game has millions of players online, it will attract Millions More because then things such as proper match making becomes a reality. No need to alter the algorithms and put you against players of way different levels. You can actually be placed against players of your same skill.

Therefore giving players what they want, people want a solid functioning game that has good gameplay, proper netcode and is fun and addictive. Also something to note Blizzard and Valve focuses on "artwork" rather than ubber realism

This is why no matter how old some of these games get they always seem to look great, a good artist is better than a architectural designer making real life stuff in Unreal Engine 4. Most prefer an art direction rather than realism, it gives video games the "magical feeling" it always was about.

These 20 year games and 20 year CPUs is regarding the 90% of PC Gamers. The thing though is the motherboard will die before you even get to 20 years but I was just drawing reference on how a CPU can last 20 years and play games for 20 years for 90% of PC Gamers. A 4790K i7 will last 20 years easy at this point we are in, tech is mature now to that point.

The huge issue is people compare 2015 tech to 1995 tech and they fail hard at doing so. Tech now, the stage it has reached and the yearly increase it gets, the games we play today, the microtransaction and free to play business model, the wide popularity of the internet today is nothing remotely close to what you would have had in the golden age of 1995.


A 4790K i7 will last 20 years easy at this point we are in, tech is mature now to that point.

Not necessarily.

We may start getting cpus, with an ever increasing number of cores, each generation.

Look at the server chips, of the last twenty years. At some point (I can't remember exactly when). The number of cores (on server chips), increased (typically), every generation.
We are currently at 18 cores (per high end, server cpu), totally 36 cores, on a dual cpu motherboard.

Sooner or later, mainstream cpus, may go the same way.

With us having 4 cores, one generation.
6 cores the next.
8 cores the next.
10 cores the next.
Etc etc.

Much like server cpus, have been doing, the last few/many generations.

In other threads, I/we have had differing opinions, on how readily domestic and gaming software, will be able to usefully use many, many cores.

Probably, using many cores, is one of the few ways, we can progress cpu/gpu performance.

Baring major technical invention(s), such as Quantum sized devices, with potentially faster single core performance.
 
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