Despite what George W. Bush thinks, Ohio and Indiana are not in the "Middle East"

[pen^2]

i have no beef with you all believing in chritian god; just dont use it in your arguments as something taken granted. it is only your opinion, not the fact that god exists. hey mrPalco why doesnt your wonderful god tell his people to stop harrasing palastenians?

 

[pen^2]

it would be a cold they in hell if we say all the manchurian territory and half of china belongs to korea cuz it is written so in 'dankunsinwha'. how hard is it to seperate the facts and the myths? who gives a rats ass bout what (allegedely) happened some thousands years ago? if israeli tried to kick me out of my own settlement and treat me like sh!t i am almost certain i will get them back at all costs.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< hey mrPalco why doesnt your wonderful god tell his people to stop harrasing palastenians? >>



The Palestinians are guests in a land that is not theirs.

Perhaps they have overstayed their welcome.

Don't worry, Israel will show them out the door.

 

[JellyBaby]

My take:

Arafat seems uninterested in peace, only war. Barak is weak. Israel gave in to the Palestinians on the promise of peace. It didn?t happen. The place is a mess once again but due to political reasons, ego, and the need to save face the US must remain sided with Israel. I don?t feel Clinton should play negotiator at all (no credibility). Get someone ?neutral? like Koffie in there if anyone.

New solutions to consider:

* UN/NATO takes over the sovereignty of Israel and defends it.
* UN/NATO takes over the sovereignty of Israel and sells it to the arabs. Money goes to relocate Israelis.
* UN/NATO declares a strip of land on the borders of Israel ?crown land? and places permanent peacekeepers there. We wait a few generations for animosities to subside then pull out.

 

[pen^2]

maybe this whole planet belongs to 'gods own people'. hell, once intergalactical travel is a reality we should leave this little polluted planet to damn israeli and get the hell out.

 

[403Forbidden]

Grand Junction, Indiana is not in the Middle East either

 

[Stark]

I think this story pretty well explains the situation in Israel: Call this story &quot;Blood Brothers&quot;



<< 1 Now Sarai, Abram's wife, had borne him no children. And she had an Egyptian maidservant whose name was Hagar. So Sarai said to Abram, &quot;See now, the Lord has restrained me from bearing children. Please, go in to my maid; perhaps I shall obtain children by her.&quot; And Abram heeded the voice of Sarai. Then Sarai, Abram's wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan.

So he went in to Hagar, and she conceived. And when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress became despised in her eyes. Then Sarai said to Abram, &quot;My wrong be upon you! I gave my maid into your embrace; and when she saw that she had conceived, I became despised in her eyes. The Lord judge between you and me.&quot; So Abram said to Sarai, &quot;Indeed your maid is in your hand; do to her as you please.&quot; And when Sarai dealt harshly with her, she fled from her presence.

Now the Angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, by the spring on the way to Shur. And He said, &quot;Hagar, Sarai's maid, where have you come from, and where are you going?&quot; She said, &quot;I am fleeing from the presence of my mistress Sarai.&quot; The Angel of the Lord said to her, &quot;Return to your mistress, and submit yourself under her hand.&quot;

Then the Angel of the Lord said to her, &quot;I will multiply your descendants exceedingly, so that they shall not be counted for multitude.&quot; And the Angel of the Lord said to her: &quot;Behold, you are with child, And you shall bear a son. You shall call his name Ishmael, Because the Lord has heard your affliction. He shall be a wild man; His hand shall be against every man, And every man's hand against him. And he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.&quot; (sound like arafat and the palestinians?) Then she called the name of the Lord who spoke to her, You-Are-the-God-Who-Sees; for she said, &quot;Have I also here seen Him who sees me?&quot; Therefore the well was called Beer Lahai Roi; observe, it is between Kadesh and Bered (this well can be found in mecca today).

So Hagar bore Abram a son; and Abram named his son, whom Hagar bore, Ishmael. Abram was eighty-six years old when Hagar bore Ishmael to Abram.

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, &quot;I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.&quot; Then Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying:

&quot;As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you.

And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God...&quot;

Then God said to Abraham, &quot;As for Sarai your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name. And I will bless her and also give you a son by her; then I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples shall be from her.&quot; Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, &quot;Shall a child be born to a man who is one hundred years old? And shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?&quot; 18 And Abraham said to God, &quot;Oh, that Ishmael might live before You!&quot; Then God said: &quot;No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year.&quot; Then He finished talking with him, and God went up from Abraham. >>



Today we're seeing a fight for the inheiritance.

 

[403Forbidden]

Jellybaby:



<< Arafat seems uninterested in peace, only war. >>



Well Arafat is cooperating with the UN. Israel is refusing to cooperate with the UN.
Seems like Israel is uninterested in peace.




<< * UN/NATO takes over the sovereignty of Israel and sells it to the arabs. Money goes to relocate Israelis >>




That's like stealing someone's car and then trying to sell it back to them.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< Yeah whatever. Palestianians were there first. Don't worry though, Palestine will show Israel the bottom of the sea. >>



When outlaws try to take something that is not theirs, the Just move in and restore order.

Do you think a bunch of silly, unorganized band of stone throwing Palestinian thugs can dislodge God, and his people?

 

[403Forbidden]

someone needs to &quot;move in&quot; and &quot;restore order&quot; to your wacked out brain

 

[zippy]

403Forbidden, if you want to play the history game, the Canaanites were the very first people in Canaan. Then the Hebrews (later called the Jews) intermingled quite nicely with the Canaanites and it became known as Israel. So really, your history game is not helping you in any way shape or form. :|

403Forbidden, why not read that article I posted up in my last post.

BTW, good response &quot;someone needs to &quot;move in&quot; and &quot;restore order&quot; to your wacked out brain &quot;...really intelligent.

 

[zippy]

Your beloved Palestinians have NOT cooperated with UN. THEY are and were the instigators of this violence. Don't give me this Aeriel Sharon excuse either. HE MADE QUITE PUBLIC THAT THE GOAL OF HIS VISIT TO THE TEMPLE MOUNT WAS TO SHOW UNITY BETWEEN THE TWO RACES. Whether or not that is true, who knows, but HE did not start the violence!

Even today, the Palestinians instigated the violence, against a cease fire. What were the israeli soldiers supposed to do? Sit back and be fired at?!

Yeah, the Palestinians have been really cooperative with UN throughout the years...read the history books, read the news, they have never been cooperative.

 

[403Forbidden]

Michigan has never been a part of the &quot;Middle East&quot; either

 

[MrPALCO]

<< Well Arafat is cooperating with the UN. Israel is refusing to cooperate with the UN. >>



UN? So what, since when did they decide what is right and wrong.

I support Israel in the operation that will throw out her unruly guests.

Palestinians...If you are in Israel to cause trouble, get out, while you still live.

 

[403Forbidden]

Tennessee = no where near the Middle East

 

[JellyBaby]

<< Well Arafat is cooperating with the UN. Israel is refusing to cooperate with the UN.
Seems like Israel is uninterested in peace. >>

403Forbidden,

Yet Israel has given Arafat many consessions in recent years. Those were not just promises, but tangible reality. I suppose you'll tell me it's all a ploy?

<< That's like stealing someone's car and then trying to sell it back to them. >>

Didn't like that option, eh?

 

[zippy]

You know why Israel is not cooperating? Because if they did then wtf would happen? UN investigators would come in, and cripple Israel when they are being attacked (for loss of a better word). I think the reason they want to inquire about the treatment is because the Palestinians are not being allowed to move from city to city.



<< Even today, the Palestinians instigated the violence, against a cease fire. What were the israeli soldiers supposed to do? Sit back and be fired at?! >>



Read the whole post, not just the part you like most 403Forbidden. The Palestinians are breaking a cease fire, Israel is responding correctly. Not once has israel started shooting without instigation.

 

[zippy]

<< Why don't you continue the timeline a little more...

Islam formed in the region and many centuries later Palestine was formed.

Then in the mid 20th century, the UN forced &quot;Israel&quot; unto Palestinian land. >>



Yo, goober, Judaism is an older religion than Islam...Jews have been in the area f.k.a. as Canaan since before Islam even became a religion with a good majority of &quot;members&quot;. Even then, the Muslims were not in Canaan!

403Forbidden, I'll respond to your inevitable next post later, I have to go out for awhile. I'll be back later, don't worry.

 

[Susan]

Here's an eyewitness account of the fighting from the eyes of a fifteen year old boy.


October 7, 2000

As we watched the news in Palestine, sitting in the refugee camp, we wished we could go to Palestine to confront our enemy. But all we could do is demonstrate every day in the camp, and twice outside Beirut.

The biggest demonstration in Beirut was after the death of Rami [12 year-old Muhammad al-Dura whose killing by Israeli soldiers was shown on TV]. When I saw Rami killed I felt angry and outraged. I knew the Israelis are cruel, but not to that extent. How could they kill a child in cold blood?

I dreamt that night that all the Palestinians are one person who was lost in a forest, surrounded by frightening monsters. So I started to think we should do something and we all started to talk about going to the south [to the border].

I woke up early in the morning, I prayed, and I told my mother that I might become a martyr or I might come back wounded. What made me go is the feeling that this should be the end. Either we all die--as Palestinians--or we live together free and with dignity in our land, Palestine. I felt I should participate in the liberation of Palestine.
We should help our people there in Palestine. It is time for us to be together.

I kissed my mother and went to the south. Most of those who went did not have their parents' approval. We are young, but we are strong, and we can fight for Palestine.

On our way to Palestine, we were chanting for Palestine and for return. We shouted, &quot;With blood, with soul we will sacrifice for you, Palestine.&quot; When we saw Palestine we started to say that it is only a wire fence separating us from our people. We said it is so unfair, we should be together. It is time for us to be together.

I can't tell you how beautiful Palestine is. How can we be Palestinians, and have such a beautiful country and yet
we live in Shatila? Is it fair that other people are enjoying the beauty of Palestine and we live in very humiliating
conditions in the camp?

Then we reached Zarit [an Israeli settlement], where the Israelis have many outposts. We could see them so
clearly behind the fence. We were only about twenty meters from them. We started to throw stones at them. While I was throwing stones, I was thinking of my friends in Dheisheh refugee camp [near Bethlehem, in the occupied West Bank], and all the children of Palestine. I threw a stone for Motassim, one for Manar, one for Zeid, and I threw stones for Karmel, Hanan, Muhammad, Sanabel and all the others. I threw stones for my friends in Shatila who could not come with us. As I threw the stones, I shouted, &quot;this is from Muhammad, and this
one is from Sammoura, and this one is from al-assfoura Muna, so she can go back and be free in Palestine.&quot;

Then they started to fire tear gas at us. I fainted, and so did Ibrahim and many others, but we got up and started to throw stones at them again.

Around one o'clock, Hasan Hassanein threw molotovs at the Israelis. He threw five of them, and while he was throwing the last one, two helicopters came over us. They fired tear gas, and we couldn't see each other. The Israeli soldiers who were facing us fired two shots at him. He was hit in the chest and the stomach. He was carried away while making a victory sign and chanting for Palestine. [It was later reported by the media, that Hasan Hassanein, 23, from Shatila Camp died of his injuries in Bint Jbail hospital].

We continued throwing stones, and after about half an hour, Shadi Anas from Bourj al-Barajneh camp threw a molotov cocktail at the Israelis, burning one of their vehicles and a watchtower. Then they shot him in his heart and fired more tear gas at us.

We went on throwing stones until three o'clock and then we heard that Hasan and Shadi had died in hospital. We started to chant for them and sing the songs that Palestinians sing for grooms. We headed back to Shatila. We were so sad, and then we heard that the news that Hizbullah captured three Israeli soldiers and fired fifty
Katyushas from Fatma Gate in retaliation for Hasan and Shadi and the twenty two injured. We were jubilant and started to sing.

When I came back to the camp, my mother and friends were waiting for me. They all hugged and kissed me. I was so happy because I had lived what our people in Palestine are living. We should all be living there. I wished I had come back to Shatila a martyr for Palestine. Oh how I love Palestine. I love it more now than ever.

Walid Balkis, 15
Shatila Camp
Lebanon

 

[zippy]

Susan, where did you get that sentimental piece of trash? How do you know it was actually written by a 15 year old? Do you actually think a 15 year old should have been fighting against soldiers? Ever think that the shot that killed that 12 year old what was caught in the cross fire was an ACCIDENT. You don't seriously believe that an Israeli soldier MEANT to shoot that boy?! He was caught in a cross fire, that is tragic. What is not tragic is that 113 Palestinians are dead because they were attacking armed soldiers. They knew what they were getting into and they got their just deserts.

 

[UG]

403Forbidden;

Israel distrusts the UN Commission's intent for 'investigating' them based on the unequal representation of political bias toward the Palistinian argumentative position on the part of a majority of its Commissioners.

What's the point of an investigation whose 'findings' are preconceived?

 

[403Forbidden]

Illinois belongs in the Middle East though

 

[pen^2]

terrorism is last resort the oppressed use to sacrifice themselves against the tyrants. how many times has that happened before? looks like histroy is repeating itself yet again...

 

[Jumpem]

The UN/NATO is nothing more than a front for socialists to make the entire planet into a one government totalitarian state. Some people are so easily influenced by the liberal media in the US and do not wish to think for themselves. Try taking a look at some foreign news services for a bit of objective and un-biased journalism. The Israelites(Jews) are now living in the land that is rightfully theirs, given to them according to God. Who is the UN or Comrade Clinton to say that they know what is &quot;right&quot; and that God does not. One day they will all be held accountable for their actions. The Palestinians(Gentiles) have no claim to the sovereign state of Israel. If they want a home they can move in with the Arabs.

 

[Specialist]

PUSH PUSH PUSH