Destroy my build - $3,000 gaming setup

[PCJake]

Utimately, it is up to you. My general philosophy is that a dollar saved in one section goes to another--and that "other" could make a much larger impact.

Unless you are able to have the best of both worlds, which I am in this case. There are still plenty of builds I couldn't afford, but even if I found $500 on the ground somewhere, it wouldn't affect my build much. Short of going up to a 30" monitor (which I'm actually still considering), my build is pretty much ideal for my purposes.

But as far as targeting purchases that give the most bang for your buck - oh yeah, I couldn't agree more. That's precisely why I post my builds on Anandtech, so I can get the most out of my budget.

 

[mfenn]

Do you guys think it's an emotional decision to go with the Mushkins when there are cheaper modules available?

Yes. Your personal experiences represent far too small of a sample to be a statistically valid decision point. The data shows that DRAM as a whole is extremely reliable.

I actually got a modular PSU in the rig in my sig, and sort of regret it. I ended up using almost all of the cables, and it resulted in me paying extra money for VERY marginal value. Nothing fancy either, just a gpu, a DVD R/W, one HDD, and one SSD.

Modularity seems to have much less of an affect on neatness than sensible cable routing holes in the case, and a bit of planning on the assembler's part.

Agree 100%. This is my experience as well.

And as far as all RAM being the same...doesn't Mushkin manufacture their own stuff right here in the U.S.? That's been my understanding.

There are very few places that actually manufacture DRAM, most of the outside of the US. In theory, Mushkin could restrict themselves to buying Micron DRAM, but I don't see how they could stay competitive doing that. And Micron has been on an acquisition spree lately, so there's no guarantee that their stuff is fabbed or assembled solely in the US either.

More likely they do what everybody else does, and source Samsung (Korea), Hynix (Korea), Elpida (Japan), and Micron (US) DRAM as the market dictates. They might actually do final assembly in the US, but then again, so does Micron.

 

[Automaticman]

There are very few places that actually manufacture DRAM, most of the outside of the US. In theory, Mushkin could restrict themselves to buying Micron DRAM, but I don't see how they could stay competitive doing that. And Micron has been on an acquisition spree lately, so there's no guarantee that their stuff is fabbed or assembled solely in the US either.

More likely they do what everybody else does, and source Samsung (Korea), Hynix (Korea), Elpida (Japan), and Micron (US) DRAM as the market dictates. They might actually do final assembly in the US, but then again, so does Micron.

Some quick Googling:

Backing the trend of return of manufacturing to United States, Mushkin acquired manufacturing facilities in Austin, Texas - a city which once more is becoming one of the world's premier manufacturing locations. Controlling its own manufacturing is the reason why the company was able to pump out several very interesting designs, such as world's highest capacity mSATA Drive: Atlas 480GB. Even though we're talking about a double-stacked PCB, the Micron chips will gain in density, and as the development progresses, the company expects to increase the compatibility with more notebooks and Ultrabooks.

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...ch-dense-ssds-480gb-msata-and-960gb-sata.aspx

Yes. Your personal experiences represent far too small of a sample to be a statistically valid decision point. The data shows that DRAM as a whole is extremely reliable.

You are absolutely correct. And yet, if the logical answer were the only thing that mattered, we'd all still be stuffing our parts into the ugly beige boxes from the 80's.


Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with using emotions or company loyalty when choosing equipment - especially here where everyone can agree the product is, at the worst, just as good as everything else. I'd also be lying if I said aesthetics never came into play either. Now, there certainly comes a point (and it comes up pretty quick) where the price or performance hit overrules more emotional reasons for picking hardware. But $13 on this kind of rig wouldn't be enough as the sole reason to make me want to get a component that might make me go "Meh" every time I looked at it in my case. And that is what those RAM modules (perfectly well made, plenty fast and a good value that they are) would make me do - for no other reason than "I don't like them as much".

The fact that I can support some jobs in the US while doing it is a nice bonus, and that was the single tipping point for my last build when I was deciding between otherwise equal GSkill and Mushkin modules.

The short version here is: the performance will be the same, pick whatever makes you happy.

 

[Sleepingforest]

I agree that ultimately something as small as $19 matters little for a budget this big. I will reiterate a practical concern though:

I think I may have had to very slightly shift up the front fan on the cooler for clearance, but it really wasn't a problem.

This is not a huge concern, but if you are worried about it, I'd suggest finding something else. This Crucial Ballistix Sport comes in around the same price and with identical frequency and timing settings, but is both lower profile and slighted undervolted, which gives it overclocking potential.

Another comment: why did you decide on 2 SSDs? Running drives in RAID0 is inadvisable because of the higher failure rate and minimal noticeable gains (especially on SSDs), and getting two seperate SSDs for capacity reasons is foolish because SSDs perform better and last longer in larger sizes (so a 512GB SSD is better than two 256GB SSD from the same line).

 

[PCJake]

Another comment: why did you decide on 2 SSDs? Running drives in RAID0 is inadvisable because of the higher failure rate and minimal noticeable gains (especially on SSDs), and getting two seperate SSDs for capacity reasons is foolish because SSDs perform better and last longer in larger sizes (so a 512GB SSD is better than two 256GB SSD from the same line).

I'm not getting two for capacity reasons, nor am I going to run them in RAID 0. I'm simply going with the FRAPS success formula: read from one drive, write to another. And I chose the 840 Pro because it can write at over 500MB/sec.

If you find fault with this logic, please let me know.

 

[Sleepingforest]

I thought that the CPU was a much bigger bottleneck for FRAPs than the write or read speed of the disk, since you're encoding in real time? And a 1080p@30 frames per second is only going to be a couple dozen MB/s, which is easily taken care of by a modern HDD (in a real world 128KB sequential write, the 840 Pro gets around 380MB/s; a WD Raptor 2.5" 1TB gets around 213MB/s; a Seagate 3TB [1TB platters] gets around 138MB/s, which is still more than enough).

You also probably don't want get an SSD explicitly for something that's being written to over and over; that's bad for the longevity.

 

[PCJake]

I thought that the CPU was a much bigger bottleneck for FRAPs than the write or read speed of the disk, since you're encoding in real time? And a 1080p@30 frames per second is only going to be a couple dozen MB/s, which is easily taken care of by a modern HDD (in a real world 128KB sequential write, the 840 Pro gets around 380MB/s; a WD Raptor 2.5" 1TB gets around 213MB/s; a Seagate 3TB [1TB platters] gets around 138MB/s, which is still more than enough).

You also probably don't want get an SSD explicitly for something that's being written to over and over; that's bad for the longevity.

The could be the case, I'll do some research.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Just keep in mind old advice is pretty outdated; RAID0 from 3 years ago is slower than a 1TB platter single drive today.

 

[PCJake]

Just keep in mind old advice is pretty outdated; RAID0 from 3 years ago is slower than a 1TB platter single drive today.

I've updated my build by replacing the second SSD with a WD VelociRaptor 500GB 6Gb/s drive - do you think this drive will perform as well for my purposes as the 1TB VelociRaptor you suggested?

 

[Automaticman]

I agree that ultimately something as small as $19 matters little for a budget this big. I will reiterate a practical concern though:

I think those are the same Mushkin Blackline modules I'm using in my build along with an NH-D14, and they fit fine. I think I may have had to very slightly shift up the front fan on the cooler for clearance, but it really wasn't a problem.

This is not a huge concern, but if you are worried about it, I'd suggest finding something else. This Crucial Ballistix Sport comes in around the same price and with identical frequency and timing settings, but is both lower profile and slighted undervolted, which gives it overclocking potential.

Fair point. Here's a pic to show what I'm talking about:

And on a side note, my exhaust fan's not spinning. WTF

 

[PCJake]

Fair point. Here's a pic to show what I'm talking about:

And on a side note, my exhaust fan's not spinning. WTF

Thanks for the pics, they're quite helpful - looks like the clearance is pretty acceptable.

Heh, couldn't help but laugh once you pointed out the exhaust fan...

 

[PCJake]

Update: switched from Corsair Obsidian 800D to Corsair Obsidian 550D. Looks to be pretty suitable for my build.

 

[Automaticman]

Thanks for the pics, they're quite helpful - looks like the clearance is pretty acceptable.

Heh, couldn't help but laugh once you pointed out the exhaust fan...

I totally didn't notice it until i was looking at the picture. I just had to push on the connector a bit, the female pins aren't very snug on that particular fan connector.

 

[Sleepingforest]

I've updated my build by replacing the second SSD with a WD VelociRaptor 500GB 6GB/s drive - do you think this drive will perform as well for my purposes as the 1TB VelociRaptor you suggested?

So long as it's the most modern iteration of the Velciraptor, sure.

EDIT: it looks like a 500GB Velociraptor goes for $140-150; you can get 2 Seagate Barracuda 1TB's and RAID0 them for the same price or less and get four times the storage and more performance.

 

[PCJake]

I have a question to pose to all of you, and I've gone back and forth on it - Should I get 8GB of 16GB of RAM? I've described my usage and setup in detail and I'm wondering if my system would even utilize the extra RAM.

For some reason that 8GB in my list just keeps nagging at me.

 

[Sleepingforest]

You have the money for it, that's for sure. A quick analysis:

Video games are largely stuck in the 32-bit era because it expands the potential market. That means they are limited to around 3.5GB of RAM. This could change, but it's pretty doubtful. If FRAPS is also 32-bit (you should be able to check; is it installed in the x86 programs file or Programs File?) then it is also limited to about 3.5GB. Running both at once, plus a bit of OS overhead maxes you out, which means running anything else is going to wreck your performance.

In other words, go for it, preferably in a 2x8GB set (especially if FRAPS turns out to be 64-bit).

 

[AMD Die Hard]

If the focus of your machine is gaming first and foremost, then you should get a monitor with 120hz or 144hz refresh rate. The monitors you are looking at have a 60hz refresh rate. You essentially need a 3D monitor, although true gamers don't play in 3D, they use those monitor because of the higher refresh rate.

Why use that titan video card that renders 140 frames per second if your monitor is only displaying 60? If you could see a monitor @60hz next to a monitor @ 144hz side by side playing battlefied3, you would be amazed. The fluidity of the higher refresh rate is absolutely amazing. If you are serious about gaming and have the financial means, you simply have to have a 120hz or 144hz monitor.

 

[AMD Die Hard]

Also, I love the Samsung 840 pro, I have one. However, with modern games getting bigger and bigger, 256GB isn't that much space. You do not want to keep your games on a seperate data drive (especially a mechanical drive even the raptor), they will load slower. The best performance comes from having them on your boot SSD or a high performance add in drive (I use a RevoX2 PCI card 256GB for games storage). Your machine sounds like it is designed to last a few years. 256GB boot drive seems a bit small.

 

[PCJake]

Also, I love the Samsung 840 pro, I have one. However, with modern games getting bigger and bigger, 256GB isn't that much space. You do not want to keep your games on a seperate data drive (especially a mechanical drive even the raptor), they will load slower. The best performance comes from having them on your boot SSD or a high performance add in drive (I use a RevoX2 PCI card 256GB for games storage). Your machine sounds like it is designed to last a few years. 256GB boot drive seems a bit small.

I uninstall games when I finish with them, so no problems there.

 

[Essence_of_War]

In other words, go for it, preferably in a 2x8GB set (especially if FRAPS turns out to be 64-bit).

2nd'ing.

Plus, with 16 GB and open slots to expand, if you ever get the urge to do something truly indulgent like, say, loading all of Skyrim onto a Ramdisk for essentially 0 loading times, you could do that.

 

[Termie]

Update: switched from Corsair Obsidian 800D to Corsair Obsidian 550D. Looks to be pretty suitable for my build.

Nice choice. From the Anandtech review, I gather it's more designed for silence than cooling, but if that's your thing, it's a great case. Here's the review for anyone interested: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5708/corsair-obsidian-550d-starting-to-specialize

And I agree with the 16GB recommendation for your build. While RAM isn't cheap, if you hunt around you can find a good deal.

 

[PCJake]

Nice choice. From the Anandtech review, I gather it's more designed for silence than cooling, but if that's your thing, it's a great case. Here's the review for anyone interested: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5708/corsair-obsidian-550d-starting-to-specialize

And I agree with the 16GB recommendation for your build. While RAM isn't cheap, if you hunt around you can find a good deal.

Thank you. You're right, it's more designed for silence than cooling (the only aspect of it I don't like), but I'll remove the top HDD cage, replace the rear exhaust with a Noctua NF-S12A (which I already have), and then replace the two front intake fans with NF-P12s. Hopefully that will improve the cooling factor a bit.

And thanks for the comment on the RAM, I'll update my build.

 

[mnewsham]

I haven't included a sound card here because I'm still doing research on those.

I notice in the OP you mention sound card, do you have a good speaker system or headphones that are going to require a good soundcard?

Would you benefit from an external DAC instead?

 

[PCJake]

I notice in the OP you mention sound card, do you have a good speaker system or headphones that are going to require a good soundcard?

Would you benefit from an external DAC instead?

Well, I have a Sennheiser PC360 headset, and currently a set of Corsair SP2500 speakers - though, I'm returning those to Newegg, I couldn't get them to sound good to my ears. I'll just try to fix my old Logitech Z2300s and use those again.

And I'm running them both into a switcher, if that makes any difference.

 

[mnewsham]

Well, I have a Sennheiser PC360 headset, and currently a set of Corsair SP2500 speakers - though, I'm returning those to Newegg, I couldn't get them to sound good to my ears. I'll just try to fix my old Logitech Z2300s and use those again.

And I'm running them both into a switcher, if that makes any difference.

what switch?

And those aren't really high enough quality to really warrant a sound card, as in your probably wont notice any difference from the onboard motherboard sound card.