Development on Clinton Email Probe?

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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
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Both are subjective, but my understanding is that gross negligence is when you know something bad is likely to happen as a result of your actions and still don't care. For example, voting for Trump in November.
So is it fair to say that if both are subjective, it is more appropriate for the judiciary to make that determination?

Also, still not sure why some of you insist on assuming that criticism of Clinton equates to support for Trump, Bengazi, Whitewater or Manbearpig.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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So is it fair to say that if both are subjective, it is more appropriate for the judiciary to make that determination?

So you want prosecutors to charge people and damage/ruin their lives and/or careers even when they themselves don't believe a crime has been committed, and let the judiciary sort it out? Maybe think some more?
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
So you want prosecutors to charge people and damage/ruin their lives and/or careers even when they themselves don't believe a crime has been committed, and let the judiciary sort it out? Maybe think some more?
No, but what I do expect is that if a prosecutor chooses not to bring charges, but then uses language that arguably demonstrated the minimum criteria to bring charges, then perhaps the judiciary needs to weigh in.

Comey should have either recommended charges or vindicated Clinton with no conditional reprimands.

The suspect didn't shoplift, but don't ever let me catch you suspiciously procuring again!!!
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,568
9,939
146
In my opinion it would be better for Major Brezler to be pardoned than to win his case. Allowing a major to make the decision when to divulge classified documents sets the bar awfully low. On the other hand, pardoning an officer for breaking the law for a noble cause seems a pretty good use of the right of pardon.

Both great points. :thumbsup:
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
No, but what I do expect is that if a prosecutor chooses not to bring charges, but then uses language that arguably demonstrated the minimum criteria to bring charges, then perhaps the judiciary needs to weigh in.
Comey should have either recommended charged or vindicated Clinton with no conditional reprimands.
The suspect didn't shoplift, but don't ever let me catch you suspiciously procuring again!!!

Director of the FBI, who happens to be a Republican, looked at the evidence, and decided no crime has been committed. But you want him to bring charges anyways? So you want a case where even the prosecution doesn't believe that a crime has been committed, but they charged someone just to double check? Is this the type of country you want to live in?
You may want to move to Russia, they like charging political opponents and letting judiciary "sort it out."
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,487
533
126
Of course you can. There's functionally no such thing as clearance for the president. They have access to everything as they are the source of all clearances.

The fact is that she should not have her clearance now, or anyone else involved in the emails. I know a little about it, I have a Secret in DOD world and a Q in DOE world, as well as a HRP. Q is the equivalent to Top Secret there is nothing higher. It is a long process to get one and there is a reinvestigation every 5 years to keep it for us. People have had their clearance and then 5 years later have it revoked for something that happened after they got it. I actively work for both DOD and DOE, and have a little knowledge about it. I'm traveling for a month for DOE work coming up soon. Even my wife doesn't really know what I do, that has gotten people fired before. I work in an extremely high security place. No pov's allowed in some areas, and not even the govvies can have a USB connection in the vehicle, no back up camera and no GPS, they are all disabled if they come with them. No cell phones allowed (we have to leave in our pov), no cameras or anything like it. I can't even wear my GPS watch because I can 'plot a course'. I am not just spewing ignorance. I can tell you without a doubt that if anyone I work with did anything like this, our clearance would be revoked. We would also be fired. Thats not just my opinion it is fact. It has happened. Emails are marked, everyone is given a brief of how to treat emails or other sensitive material. The easiest way to lose your clearance is truthfulness. Lying, misleading, doing something wrong then not admitting it will 100% lose your clearance. You can make honest mistakes, if you are truthful about it often times you will keep your job, be put in probation. But if you lie? Gone, every time. Not being able to keep a clearance seems like a clear case of not being fit to be President, among other things the FBI director stated. She has lied several times and not even about this. That alone should have revoked her clearance.

The fact that she still has her clearance is proof there is a double standard, among other examples. Rules don't apply for all, even when they should. She has lied several times not counting the email fiasco.
 

shady28

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2004
2,520
397
126
Pretty big tilt against Hillary.

37% agree with the FBI
54% disagree with the FBI

Election polls next week should be interesting.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub..._disagree_with_decision_not_to_indict_clinton

A Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey – taken last night - finds that 37% of Likely U.S. Voters agree with the FBI’s decision. But 54% disagree and believe the FBI should have sought a criminal indictment of Clinton. Ten percent (10%) are undecided.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
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Director of the FBI, who happens to be a Republican, looked at the evidence, and decided no crime has been committed. But you want him to bring charges anyways? So you want a case where even the prosecution doesn't believe that a crime has been committed, but they charged someone just to double check? Is this the type of country you want to live in?
You may want to move to Russia, they like charging political opponents and letting judiciary "sort it out."

Political affiliation is irrelevant.

Listen to what I am saying instead of reacting to it. Why raise the spectre of doubt with admonishment if your intent is to vindicate the suspect?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
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No, but what I do expect is that if a prosecutor chooses not to bring charges, but then uses language that arguably demonstrated the minimum criteria to bring charges, then perhaps the judiciary needs to weigh in.

Comey should have either recommended charges or vindicated Clinton with no conditional reprimands.

Why? So you could claim whitewash?

The suspect didn't shoplift, but don't ever let me catch you suspiciously procuring again!!!
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,819
1,573
136

This is a very astute comment.

Hang on - there's no email gap, it's just that the volume of Rosatom traffic is very low (i.e., it's a topic that's less frequently mentioned than the others). Even in the peak month, there are only 21 cables.

When there were a comparable 19 Zelaya cables (in May '09), there are 0 emails (Zelaya's peak is 136 cables in a month).

When there were a comparable 20 Copenhagen emails (Feb '10), there is 1 email (Copenhagen's peak is 72 cables in a month).

When there were a comparable 20 Lisbon cables (Sep '09), there are 0 emails.

This is incredibly lazy data journalism, unless I'm missing something.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Political affiliation is irrelevant.

Listen to what I am saying instead of reacting to it. Why raise the spectre of doubt with admonishment if your intent is to vindicate the suspect?

What part of this escapes you?

Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.

Reasonable prosecutors don't do witch hunts, which is what Repubs have been doing al along with this.

It's still what you want, obviously.
 

shady28

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2004
2,520
397
126

This was a very astute comment :

Matthew Edwards · Attorney at Law at Owens Davies
There is clear evidence that Clinton deleted work related e-mails.

There is a principle in the law related to spoliation of evidence. When a person destroys evidence they are under a duty to preserve, the law allows you to infer that the content of the evidence was adverse to the interest of the person who destroyed it.

Here, application of that principle leads to the conclusion that Clinton destroyed evidence establishing that she used her position as Secretary of State to solicit contributions to the Clinton Foundation.


Spoilation of evidence from Wikipedia :

The spoliation of evidence is the intentional, reckless, or negligent withholding, hiding, altering, fabricating, or destroying of evidence relevant to a legal proceeding.[1]
...
The theory of the spoliation inference is that when a party destroys evidence, it may be reasonable to infer that the party had "consciousness of guilt" or other motivation to avoid the evidence. Therefore, the factfinder may conclude that the evidence would have been unfavorable to the spoliator. Some jurisdictions have recognized a spoliation tort action, which allows the victim of destruction of evidence to file a separate tort action against a spoliator.[2]


In other words, it's reasonable to assume the evidence was destroyed to cover something up.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
0
What part of this escapes you?



Reasonable prosecutors don't do witch hunts, which is what Repubs have been doing al along with this.

It's still what you want, obviously.

The problem is all of Comey's words around that. The director the FBI has never held a press conference to announce they weren't pursuing charges against somebody, let alone going on for 15 minutes over all the things they did wrong that they won't be charged for. Comey played politics with this, his intent was to raise doubt and admonish, and here we are. Witch hunts, paranoia, accusations of corruption.

If this had been done to someone other than a Clinton... no, it simply would just never have been done to someone other than a Clinton.
 
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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Political affiliation is irrelevant.

Listen to what I am saying instead of reacting to it. Why raise the spectre of doubt with admonishment if your intent is to vindicate the suspect?

That's your subjective view of what he said.
Do you want him to indict Hillary if he doesn't in his final analysis believe she committed a crime? Or not? Would you like to yourself be indicted "just in case" if there is an allegation made against you, or is it just for your political opponents?
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
Director of the FBI, who happens to be a Republican, looked at the evidence, and decided no crime has been committed.
That isn't what he said. There was evidence of possible violations of statutes is what he said.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,644
50,879
136
It's Rasmussen, favorite polling company of President Romney.

They have been a very poor pollster recently, yes. Whenever you read a poll result that tells you what you want to hear you should look at what the poll was. Specifically if it is a nonstandard question like this.

People are easily duped when they hear favorable news. The most confusing part to me is that anyone would think that news favorable to Donald Trump would be favorable news.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
The problem is all of Comey's words around that. The director the FBI has never held a press conference to announce they weren't pursuing charges against somebody, let alone going on for 15 minutes over all the things they did wrong that they won't be charged for. Comey played politics with this, his intent was to raise doubt and admonish, and here we are. Witch hunts, paranoia, accusations of corruption.

If this had been done to someone other than a Clinton... no, it simply would just never have been done to someone other than a Clinton.

I don't think any of the attributions to Comey's motives are right at all. He did it because he thought it was the right thing to do.

Take into account what we know of the man. Apply Occam's razor & there's your answer.

Otherwise, we're back to crop circles & aliens.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
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Here is the wording of the poll.

"The FBI has concluded that Hillary Clinton potentially exposed top secret information to hostile countries when she used a private e-mail server as secretary of State, but the agency has decided not to seek a criminal indictment of her. Do you agree or disagree with the FBI’s decision not to seek a criminal indictment of Hillary Clinton in this matter?"

What would have been a better way to ask the question?
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
More importantly, he said no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.
Tell senseamp to quit lying about what he said.

He also said any reasonable person would know not to do what Hillary did.
 
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