DeVos confirmed as Ed Secretary

[Commodus]

You're assuming that will be the case. We don't know if that will happen or not.

No, I'm not assuming, I'm saying it seems probable based on observable evidence. Hell, DeVos never even attended public school, why would you expect someone completely detached from the public system to care about it?

It hasn't occurred to you that those current lower income families are already being hurt by forcing them to attend terrible schools. Rich people already have the money to send their kids elsewhere. People without a lot of money are the ones that need help to have a realistic choice for their kids. Giving them vouchers offers them choices.

Or, you could try the wild concept of increasing the funding for those public schools, including incentives that improve the quality of the teachers. Abandoning a system you can clearly save is stupid... and yes, it'll be abandonment if DeVos focuses on vouchers, because it'll drain time and effort away from the public system.

Also, vouchers only work if they're granted equally and there are no added financial burdens (explicit or hidden). Don't force a family to send their child to a Christian school simply because it's the only private school in the area. Don't ask a low-income family to pay for transportation or textbooks when they didn't have to before. That sort of thing.

More imagined outrage. The public education system hasn't been "starved" at all. Take a look at the dollars spent per pupil in public schools --- starvation not found. The problem is that the money doesn't find its way to where it is needed, it is sucked up in bureaucracy and wasteful overhead. That needs to be fixed, throwing more money at the problem isn't going to fix it.

Also interesting that everyone seems to think every private school has to be Christian. Need I remind you that there are plenty of private schools of every denomination as well as secular ones, charter schools etc?

Getting all hysterical over everything isn't helping anything.

Here's the problem: even if we accept that you're right at face value, DeVos hasn't talked about reworking the public system to eliminate that overhead. It's all about vouchers for private schools. So, once again, we're back to the same problem: that she's likely to hurt the public education system in the name of promoting a private one, if just through neglect.

And of course there are secular and non-Christian private schools. But what about areas where your only option is a school whose religion you don't believe in? Will the government provide incentives for companies to set up alternatives? In a public system, the government can insist on building or upgrading schools according to need, cost be damned; private schools don't have that incentive unless they see a chance for additional profit. Sorry, kids, we'd send you to the school across the street, but they've determined that the volume of kids in the neighborhood isn't profitable enough to justify an expansion.

It's not hysterics; it's concern based on DeVos' history, her demonstrable incompetence (as shown at hearings) and the Trump administration's overall emphasis on party loyalty over relevant experience. I'm all in favor of shaking up the US education system because of its extant problems, but proper reform involves understanding the system you're reforming. Otherwise, you're taking wild stabs in the dark at best.

 

[pcgeek11]

Truth.

Good job republicans, Trump and Pence, sticking to your guns. Well, except for those two (Murkowski and Collins) that voted against.

I wonder why they chose to vote against?

Hmmm.

 

[werepossum]

Its interesting you say that since I see a lot of her supporters boasting about how shes going to put Jesus back in the schools. So, you will trade this supposed "Liberal" indoctrination for a theological one? I have a sister in 4th grade right now. I want her to lean about STEM subjects, I want her to learn to read and write well. I don't give a crap about her learning about Jesus in school. You do that at home and on Sundays.


Meanwhile, in other countries, they don't deal with this garbage and their kids are smarter than ours.

Oddly enough, American kids used to be at or near the top until the federal government began "helping". Now American kids are near the bottom - but think they are at the top. It's almost as if building self esteem in the absence of actual achievement somehow fails to create competency . . .

 

[MrPickins]

I wonder why they chose to vote against?

Hmmm.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/susan-collins-betsy-devos-confirmation-234497

“I have heard from thousands, truly, thousands of Alaskans who have shared their concerns about Mrs. DeVos," Murkowski said. "I do not intend to vote on final passage to support Mrs. DeVos."

 

[blankslate]

Best case scenario reduced funding for public schools unless they weaken the wall between church and state in their curriculum.

Worst case scenario fundamentalist christian versions of Madrassas.

This is a terrible choice for Secretary of Education. A person who very likely believes in creationism or intelligent design over science. Nice if you want to fall further behind other countries even more in terms of education standards. People who support this pick are unpatriotic in that regard.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Public schools already have highly inequitable usage of funds. Some high schools in LA have iPads for every student, others are ghetto as hell. afaik the Department of Education has a pretty minor role in funding public schools. Cut them out entirely and state governments (probably disproportionately red Southern states) will have to pick up the tab, which they should.

 

[Vic]

I'm just happy that the voters rejected pay-to-play politics.. oh, wait..

 

[MongGrel]

Best case scenario reduced funding for public schools unless they weaken the wall between church and state in their curriculum.

Worst case scenario fundamentalist christian versions of Madrassas.

This is a terrible choice for Secretary of Education. A person who very likely believes in creationism or intelligent design over science. Nice if you want to fall further behind other countries even more in terms of education standards. People who support this pick are unpatriotic in that regard.

This.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

If you're a shitty parent, then leave your kids in a shitty public school filled with drugs, crime and shitty teachers. Good luck with that.

 

[Vic]

Good news for students, good news for inner city children and their parents, bad news for union teachers.

Yeah, the lowest paid professionals in public service have been ripping us off for too long!

 

[HamburgerBoy]

If you're a shitty parent, then leave your kids in a shitty public school filled with drugs, crime and shitty teachers. Good luck with that.

Do you think they have a choice? If your school is ghetto, it probably means your neighborhood is ghetto. If your neighborhood is ghetto, it's probably because you can't afford to live elsewhere. The biggest issue with education in the USA has little to do with gross funding and everything to do with criminal fuck-ups dragging things into the ground and requiring waste of resources on things like metal detectors, security guards, etc. Those same criminal elements will fill private schools with drugs and crime just as easily as public ones.

 

[Vic]

So, they just confirmed for SecEd a person who wants to destroy the American public school system and replace it with a voucher system which demonstrably did not work in her home state, who has no understanding of what the job entails, and little understanding of education in general. Her desire to promote Creationism and religion in public schools and her lying about the success of virtual schools.

Interesting...I guess sticking it to the "liberals" is apparently all that matters. *sigh*

I'm just waiting for when these idiots figure out that this voucher system (1) screws over every American parent who can't afford private school, and (2) will allow public funding for Islamic schools as well as Christian schools.

 

[Commodus]

If you're a shitty parent, then leave your kids in a shitty public school filled with drugs, crime and shitty teachers. Good luck with that.

Because, of course, every family in the US can always afford to send their kids to any school they want. Low incomes and physical distance considerations? Non-existent!

You could always improve funding and infrastructure to boost the quality of underperforming public schools, but nah... that'd require actual work, intelligence and patience. Let's just burn the whole thing down and limit education to the wealthy.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

If you're a shitty parent, then leave your kids in a shitty public school filled with drugs, crime and shitty teachers. Good luck with that.

riiiiight. cause private schools have no shitty kids in them. brilliant logic tajjy, however I went to a private school and I can guaran-fucking-tee you there are shitty kids EVERYWHERE.

 

[woolfe9998]

I'm just waiting for when these idiots figure out that this voucher system (1) screws over every American parent who can't afford private school, and (2) will allow public funding for Islamic schools as well as Christian schools.

Yup, I can't think of anything more flagrantly unconstitutional than using tax payer money to fund people's religious education.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Have the local schools rectify that situation. Problem solved.

They try to, but part of the solution means paying for things that aren't actually about education, which therefore means less money for textbooks, more money for security.

 

[jackstar7]

Do you think they have a choice? If your school is ghetto, it probably means your neighborhood is ghetto. If your neighborhood is ghetto, it's probably because you can't afford to live elsewhere. The biggest issue with education in the USA has little to do with gross funding and everything to do with criminal fuck-ups dragging things into the ground and requiring waste of resources on things like metal detectors, security guards, etc. Those same criminal elements will fill private schools with drugs and crime just as easily as public ones.

Can you describe these criminals? Is there anything that makes them easy to spot and target so we can work to end their terrible influence and lift up all people?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Can you describe these criminals? Is there anything that makes them easy to spot and target so we can work to end their terrible influence and lift up all people?

They engage in criminal behavior. Easy enough to observe.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

In which case they should be prosecuted with criminal charges.

Which results in maybe 100 hours of community service since the court systems are too packed wasting resources on the war on drugs to send an adolescent bully to jail.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Or 8 years prison time.

I'm doubtful that any high school student has received 8 years prison for something that didn't involve homicide, weapons, sexual assault, or drug dealing.

The best solution would be for Trump to "send in the Feds", but that's not going to happen.

 

[jackstar7]

They engage in criminal behavior. Easy enough to observe.

No other unifying characteristics? Also, since I would say most criminal behavior is carried out in secret, not sure how observable it is...

 

[HamburgerBoy]

No other unifying characteristics? Also, since I would say most criminal behavior is carried out in secret, not sure how observable it is...

A lot of it just involves removing problem students from classrooms after they've been told to leave, which is a public crime of trespassing afaik. Google is telling me that the majority of schools have security cameras, and I'd imagine there's more of them in worse schools, so that takes care of violence in the halls at least to an extent. Part of it also requires getting past the "snitches get stitches" mentality, and ensuring good students that they will be protected from violence. Hardly an impossible goal if the police are allowed to go in and clean house.

 

[Vic]

No other unifying characteristics? Also, since I would say most criminal behavior is carried out in secret, not sure how observable it is...

How selective enforcement of the law correlates with racism is something most people choose to ignore. I speed on the highways literally every day and yet haven't had a ticket in years. If I was 'smart,' by 'conservative' logic, I wouldn't say anything while others get busted. Better them than me, right? But because I actually am pretty smart, I recognize that another solution is necessary.

 

[1prophet]

proof that the US ever had the best education system in the world?

Done when the slide rule was your calculator, cursive writing was still required, industrial arts was part of the curriculum, if you failed you got an F not a prize, teachers used the red pencil/pen to point out students mistakes, parents didn't argue with the teachers over why their special snowflake was failed for not completing assignments, you memorized your times table, you came to school looking your best regardless of income, etc., etc.

But if you really want to know why education sucks and it won't be getting any better any time soon, no matter how much money we throw at it, ask your owners.

 

[jackstar7]

A lot of it just involves removing problem students from classrooms after they've been told to leave, which is a public crime of trespassing afaik. Google is telling me that the majority of schools have security cameras, and I'd imagine there's more of them in worse schools, so that takes care of violence in the halls at least to an extent. Part of it also requires getting past the "snitches get stitches" mentality, and ensuring good students that they will be protected from violence. Hardly an impossible goal if the police are allowed to go in and clean house.

So you want to be on a ship full of rats. Interesting.