Diablo 3 Expansion announced!

[linster]

The only way D3 would ever in the eyes of the "haters" be considered better than D2, was if it was released at the same time; in the same infancy of the internet community and online gaming and D3 didn't have DRM. If blizzard was to release D2, with better graphics. Change the story and the names of everything, and pictures of the locations to hide the fact it is just D2 over again, I bet you would see as many if not more complaints about it being not "up to snuff" of D2.

I think where this analysis fails is the new players that have never played D2. If you survey these new Diablo players, I have a feeling they also think Diablo 3 is flawed.

I've certainly done my share of thinking about what's different about D3 and D2 and why D3 fails for me, but not D2. Ultimately, when a unique drops, I know that 99% of the time, it's crap. Too many "random" affixes that can spawn and even if RNG is favorable and gives you the ones you want, another RNG will give them low rolls. In D2, there are crappy uniques as well, but when I see a unique hydra bow drop, i know it will be good. Not so in D3.

Certainly the AH has something to do with it. In D2, to a certain extent, everyone is living in their own bubbles. With the AH, that's gone. Every drop on every computer can be placed on the AH. The result is that unless your get very very lucky, your items are worth crap.

I certainly disagree with farming games not being fun anymore. It can be if done right. There's a fine balance of reward to effort ratio that needs to be attained to keep the game fun. Diablo 3 isn't there yet.

 

[ViviTheMage]

I will actually not be being this full price ... which surprised me, I had such high hopes for D3.

 

[Olikan]

Differences
- D3 had an AH, D2 had fan sites and spammers trading/selling gear for SoJs or money
- D3 you have to stack rare kills for better magic find, D2 you ran X act quest over and over and over.
- D3 you have a simplified talent build, which people just copy the top 1-3 online. D2 had a complex talent build, which people just copy the top 1-3 online.
- D3 you can see every drop others got making you feel even the great gear you got was sub par. D2 you only knew what friends got and thought what you had was pretty good. When in reality it was subpar.
- D3 has drm/online needed, D2 had offline mode, though plenty still played online for leaderboard.
- D3 has paragon leveling to add in something else to grind, D2 just had a long grind to hit its max level.

more changes...
- stupid "arcade like" bosses
- WOW art design
- HALF player in co-op
- no pvp
- underleveld or underfarmed = 1 hit kill
- almost no map randomization

 

[StinkyPinky]

Diablo 3 sucked ass. They may as well have called it "Buy your gear from the AH because what gets dropped will never match what a million people can find".

Maybe that title is a bit long but that's how I feel. The AH ruined that game just like I knew it would. It's hard to be excited finding some cool weapon when there's 10,000 better ones on the AH that you can easily afford as the supply always outstripped demand.

 

[futurefields]

Diablo 3 sucked ass. They may as well have called it "Buy your gear from the AH because what gets dropped will never match what a million people can find".

Maybe that title is a bit long but that's how I feel. The AH ruined that game just like I knew it would. It's hard to be excited finding some cool weapon when there's 10,000 better ones on the AH that you can easily afford as the supply always outstripped demand.

The AH supply comes from drops, so somebody is finding good shit.

You need +300% magic find and farm a lot the right places.

 

[silverpig]

Diablo 3 sucked ass. They may as well have called it "Buy your gear from the AH because what gets dropped will never match what a million people can find".

Maybe that title is a bit long but that's how I feel. The AH ruined that game just like I knew it would. It's hard to be excited finding some cool weapon when there's 10,000 better ones on the AH that you can easily afford as the supply always outstripped demand.

The AH made a lot of things easier though. You now have access to those items instead of going through some 3rd party website. Just get your stuff right in game.

The itemization is messed up though. I've found a ton of manticores, but they have all been useless. 980 dps with 1 socket and int? Trash.

If they made all manticores roll with 1300-1400 dps, 2 sockets, 180-200 dex, and one random affix for something other than the core affixes (vit, CC, CD, AR etc) so you'd get something like movement speed or pickup radius, that would make all manticores good. You'd get one and you'd know it was good.

 

[Olikan]

The AH supply comes from drops, so somebody is finding good shit.

You need +300% magic find and farm a lot the right places.

"good shit" that sucked to the seller...
Random letters can write books, just a matter of time

 

[waggy]

I think where this analysis fails is the new players that have never played D2. If you survey these new Diablo players, I have a feeling they also think Diablo 3 is flawed.

I've certainly done my share of thinking about what's different about D3 and D2 and why D3 fails for me, but not D2. Ultimately, when a unique drops, I know that 99% of the time, it's crap. Too many "random" affixes that can spawn and even if RNG is favorable and gives you the ones you want, another RNG will give them low rolls. In D2, there are crappy uniques as well, but when I see a unique hydra bow drop, i know it will be good. Not so in D3.

Certainly the AH has something to do with it. In D2, to a certain extent, everyone is living in their own bubbles. With the AH, that's gone. Every drop on every computer can be placed on the AH. The result is that unless your get very very lucky, your items are worth crap.

I certainly disagree with farming games not being fun anymore. It can be if done right. There's a fine balance of reward to effort ratio that needs to be attained to keep the game fun. Diablo 3 isn't there yet.

/this

i will add it seemed that everything was funneled to the RMAH and AH.

 

[futurefields]

"good shit" that sucked to the seller...
Random letters can write books, just a matter of time

You do understand that a game like this can only be viable if the really good stuff is extremely rare, right?

 

[waterjug]

I wish they had a central place for trading/buying items...but that was different than AH. Like maybe if they were selective about what went on it or something. I dunno, just thinking out loud.

D3 was trash, end of story. Loot 2.0 Paragon 2.0 whatever, it ignores fundamental problems with the game such as there only being 1 maybe 2 viable builds per character.

 

[Fenixgoon]

i didn't like the auction house much. it made farming loot rather worthless, since there was always something better than what you had, you just needed the gold for it.

otherwise, i enjoyed diablo3. not as much as diablo2, which in turn wasn't as much as diablo1. is it a good game? i'd say so, but i think it's a pretty decent ways from a GREAT game, which D1 and D2 both were.

 

[necroskull]

D3 was fun but got stale for me. The auction house was a nice touch and paragon was a slight boost in fun. More expansions please!

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Played the expansion at Gamescom, and playing the Crusader reminded me of a FoH Paladin in D2. The drops are MUCH better now, although it actually may become too easy to get good equipment now. Will have to see about that. I'll probably buy it, eventhough I've not played D3 in months. Do want to play Crusader though.

 

[diesbudt]

I think where this analysis fails is the new players that have never played D2. If you survey these new Diablo players, I have a feeling they also think Diablo 3 is flawed.

I've certainly done my share of thinking about what's different about D3 and D2 and why D3 fails for me, but not D2. Ultimately, when a unique drops, I know that 99% of the time, it's crap. Too many "random" affixes that can spawn and even if RNG is favorable and gives you the ones you want, another RNG will give them low rolls. In D2, there are crappy uniques as well, but when I see a unique hydra bow drop, i know it will be good. Not so in D3.

Certainly the AH has something to do with it. In D2, to a certain extent, everyone is living in their own bubbles. With the AH, that's gone. Every drop on every computer can be placed on the AH. The result is that unless your get very very lucky, your items are worth crap.

I certainly disagree with farming games not being fun anymore. It can be if done right. There's a fine balance of reward to effort ratio that needs to be attained to keep the game fun. Diablo 3 isn't there yet.

Yes the awareness around you. I thought in D2 I earned some amazing pieces of gear. Than I looked at screenshots of other players on their sites / some forums and realized my gear was crap. It was amazing because it was the best piece I have found for myself. But in the overall picture, it sucked.

Also, I bet those that complained on D3 that didn't play D2 would have complained on D2 in the end anyway, because they also complained on PoE and Torch 1 and 2. They don't like infinite farming genres (that is what diablo really is at heart)

As everyone said though. The AH ruined D3 more than anything else (outside DRM). And I agree. It is mainly because your isolation bubble of what you find being great or not is destroyed when hundreds of people find better and you can seem them with a click of the button. 2 solutions to this.

1) Recreate the game to put people back into their matrix bubbles of isolation, so their "amazing drops that are subpar" are not realized as subpar. Only issue is, People now use the internet for build finding, and forums for talking that enough screenshots or people bragging out there will exist compared to 11 years ago in D2 that this may no longer be possible.

2) People have to change the way they enjoy finding gear. Instead of finding the best, just keep finding "better" and overtime sell off things that are not useful and save up for 1 "much better piece". (Or use real money and just buy it all) However, the problem with this solution is, people always want their cake and to eat it too. So most will not accept this as a solution.

 

[diesbudt]

more changes...
- stupid "arcade like" bosses
- WOW art design
- HALF player in co-op
- no pvp
- underleveld or underfarmed = 1 hit kill
- almost no map randomization

1. Both games have similar bosses. I just booted up D2 last night again to fully compare. Bosses are no different between the 2 games, unless you are letting biasness/nostalgia overtake you

2. This art design is better than D2. That has to be obvious though... its 11+ years after D2. So of course the graphics will be better. And there is NOTHING cartoony about it compared to WoW (have you seen WoW's graphics? they are plenty of colorful to show cartoon). These graphics on D2 use a partial bright/toon-y render because they age real well compared to "real graphics" which age poorly on a game.

3. Half player in coop? This one makes no sense. Both has coop. Sure 1 only goes to 4 instead of 8, but truly I hated having 8 people running around.

4. PvP. The people who "miss D2 pvp" are actually those that "miss trolling and rofl stomping people and taking their stuff". D2 pvp is pitiful compared to today's standards. D3 did a favor not having much of a PvP, or when they do finally have it, make it organized and not griefing.

5. If I was underlevled or underfarmed in either gamed. I was killed almost instantly... this is similar between the 2. And the only time you survived a tough fight (which could last for 20+ minutes. [Looking at you Mephisto]) was to spam potions and portal out to restock when needed. Which to me was cheap, and cheapened the gameplay.

6. Randomized maps? Really? Yes D3 maps are all static, but D2 only had X different maps. And anyone who played D2 as much as me memorized each map setup once they saw 1 tree/object. So really, there was not any map randomized. Torchlight did a great job at throwing plenty of random maps at people. Diablo 1-3 didn't.

 

[diesbudt]

I wish they had a central place for trading/buying items...but that was different than AH. Like maybe if they were selective about what went on it or something. I dunno, just thinking out loud.

D3 was trash, end of story. Loot 2.0 Paragon 2.0 whatever, it ignores fundamental problems with the game such as there only being 1 maybe 2 viable builds per character.

There are plenty of viable builds for each character. However the most efficient there is only 1-2. Just like Every RPG game that gives you customization choices, only the top builds survive. This is not a D3 unique issue, but something you obviously do not like in RPGs. It existed in D2. Each patch only 1-2 builds were useful, and people even wouldn't let you join a lot of games unless you were that build. Because the super trio bosses required it to me.

 

[Olikan]

1. Both games have similar bosses. I just booted up D2 last night again to fully compare. Bosses are no different between the 2 games, unless you are letting biasness/nostalgia overtake you

2. This art design is better than D2. That has to be obvious though... its 11+ years after D2. So of course the graphics will be better. And there is NOTHING cartoony about it compared to WoW (have you seen WoW's graphics? they are plenty of colorful to show cartoon). These graphics on D2 use a partial bright/toon-y render because they age real well compared to "real graphics" which age poorly on a game.

3. Half player in coop? This one makes no sense. Both has coop. Sure 1 only goes to 4 instead of 8, but truly I hated having 8 people running around.

4. PvP. The people who "miss D2 pvp" are actually those that "miss trolling and rofl stomping people and taking their stuff". D2 pvp is pitiful compared to today's standards. D3 did a favor not having much of a PvP, or when they do finally have it, make it organized and not griefing.

5. If I was underlevled or underfarmed in either gamed. I was killed almost instantly... this is similar between the 2. And the only time you survived a tough fight (which could last for 20+ minutes. [Looking at you Mephisto]) was to spam potions and portal out to restock when needed. Which to me was cheap, and cheapened the gameplay.

6. Randomized maps? Really? Yes D3 maps are all static, but D2 only had X different maps. And anyone who played D2 as much as me memorized each map setup once they saw 1 tree/object. So really, there was not any map randomized. Torchlight did a great job at throwing plenty of random maps at people. Diablo 1-3 didn't.

1- what? really? i don't remember any "don't step in this dark place"..... in D2 you could dodge, when the atack was already fired, and actually aimed at you

2- awesome old art desing for D3, before wow make-up....to be fair, D1 have the best art design of the 3

3- if you hated, then you just could refuse to play a large party, if you liked... well, we can only cry

4- they do have pvp? i haven't followed d3 at all

5- i can agree with you here, some elite mosters where pretty thoght

6- 11 years old game, have a better random map system than the newest... simply patetic

 

[silverpig]

You do understand that a game like this can only be viable if the really good stuff is extremely rare, right?

Uh no.

If they made every manticore drop 1300-1400 dps, with 2 sockets, 180-200 dex, 80-100 CD, and 1 or 2 random affixes that can't be damage modifiers, vit, armor, or AR, you'd have every DH in the game with one within a few weeks of farming, and most would have found them on their own.

The game would just go on like normal. People would grind paragon levels and level up other characters while they waited for new expansions to come out.

The AH is what would die.

 

[smackababy]

Uh no.

If they made every manticore drop 1300-1400 dps, with 2 sockets, 180-200 dex, 80-100 CD, and 1 or 2 random affixes that can't be damage modifiers, vit, armor, or AR, you'd have every DH in the game with one within a few weeks of farming, and most would have found them on their own.

The game would just go on like normal. People would grind paragon levels and level up other characters while they waited for new expansions to come out.

The AH is what would die.

That would take away all the replay value of D3 though. If every Mempo that dropped was 200 main stat and 6 crit, everyone would have them. People need that carrot dangled in front of them to continue.

I do agree nothing would change with the Manticores though. They could have 5k dps and it wouldn't fix the flaws in the DH character.

 

[diesbudt]

Uh no.

If they made every manticore drop 1300-1400 dps, with 2 sockets, 180-200 dex, 80-100 CD, and 1 or 2 random affixes that can't be damage modifiers, vit, armor, or AR, you'd have every DH in the game with one within a few weeks of farming, and most would have found them on their own.

The game would just go on like normal. People would grind paragon levels and level up other characters while they waited for new expansions to come out.

The AH is what would die.

Diablo series is based purely on farming. Gear is the main thing to farm. Making it easy to get the best piece if it just drops, hurts this replayability this series uses to keep people playing. I can agree weapons should Be similar in damage. Like take your Manticore. Every manticore can drop between 1100-1400. Never less (seeing some really low makes people cry). However EVERYTHING ELSE would need to be random, weak or strong rng. Etc.

Thus the gear cannot always be good affixes. Otherwise everyone would have the gear quickly and those interested in getting the best set would be done. Instead of still farming for the better pieces and eventually making enough gold to buy 1 of the X gear slots available.

As I said before. I think people would enjoy D3 a lot more, and the series itself more if they just farmed to "get better" gear and not focus on getting the "best" gear. But again that is asking too much from a lot of players on any game lol.

 

[Anteaus]

To dedicated D3 players,

I never understood the appeal of Diablo 3. I respect that people like it, but I never understood what drove people to continuously play it. Many have described World of Warcraft as a leveling simulator, and from that I think we can all describe Diablo as a farming simulator.

The main story is woefully short, and Blizzard has purposely minimized the experience by creating a game in which beating the game on the first past is more about warming up for the next playthrough and less about the experience. I'm not trying to downplay the multiplayer side because I think it has been proven to be an overall positive experience. I consider it kin to the original rank system in WOW PVP where some players literally spent thousands of hours grinding BGs in a struggle for those top ranks in order to get a mount or weapon....for recognition. The interesting part is that ask any WOW player that has been playing non-stop since 2005 who the top player was before the ranks were removed, and they probably couldn't tell you. So barring immediate recognition there is no lasting reward for the time invested.

So ultimately my question is, what is the appeal? I don't mean about the game itself because of course D3 is a good game, but why play 100/200/300/400 hours? What do you gain from the time? What makes that time more valuable for D3 than the dozens of other games you could have played through in addition to D3? Once you've played through D3 a couple times, is there really still a spark or are you just going through the motions? Is finding gear really that euphoric or do you just like to kill time?

Note that I'm not asking about the game itself...but more the choice some people make to dump many hundreds of hours into any game.

Thanks for any responses.

 

[smackababy]

Why do people put any number of hours into any game? Look at COD or BF MP. It is effectively the same thing. Repetitive gameplay for enjoyment. Why do people who play sports repeatedly play sports? Once you've played a game of basketball, you've pretty much played every game of basketball.

The appeal comes in the mechanics are fun enough and the quest for upgrading your gear (or finding gear to sell, or whatever other goal you have) keeps people playing D3, and any other game.

 

[diesbudt]

To dedicated D3 players,

I never understood the appeal of Diablo 3. I respect that people like it, but I never understood what drove people to continuously play it. Many have described World of Warcraft as a leveling simulator, and from that I think we can all describe Diablo as a farming simulator.

The main story is woefully short, and Blizzard has purposely minimized the experience by creating a game in which beating the game on the first past is more about warming up for the next playthrough and less about the experience. I'm not trying to downplay the multiplayer side because I think it has been proven to be an overall positive experience. I consider it kin to the original rank system in WOW PVP where some players literally spent thousands of hours grinding BGs in a struggle for those top ranks in order to get a mount or weapon....for recognition. The interesting part is that ask any WOW player that has been playing non-stop since 2005 who the top player was before the ranks were removed, and they probably couldn't tell you. So barring immediate recognition there is no lasting reward for the time invested.

So ultimately my question is, what is the appeal? I don't mean about the game itself because of course D3 is a good game, but why play 100/200/300/400 hours? What do you gain from the time? What makes that time more valuable for D3 than the dozens of other games you could have played through in addition to D3? Once you've played through D3 a couple times, is there really still a spark or are you just going through the motions? Is finding gear really that euphoric or do you just like to kill time?

Note that I'm not asking about the game itself...but more the choice some people make to dump many hundreds of hours into any game.

Thanks for any responses.

It is the psychological factor. When one challenges himself to see if he can beat X and Y. That person feels good afterwards when they succeed. Once it becomes easy to clear all difficulties of X and Y, it comes down to How fast can I clear X and Y. Again another accomplish feeling.

Add in achievements, and 160 "level" (60 + 100 paragon) it is all "feeling more powerful" each step of the way. It is the whole reward system every RPG uses. (Story is usually the 2nd contributor)

Lastly the gear. Farming for X hours and finally finding an amazing piece you can use or sell for a lot of gold is a massive reward in the psyche of a game player.

If you want to get in depth WHY people play D3 or even games in general.

Read: http://www.amazon.com/Reality-Is-Bro.../dp/0143120611

You will get a better understanding.

 

[silverpig]

Diablo series is based purely on farming. Gear is the main thing to farm. Making it easy to get the best piece if it just drops, hurts this replayability this series uses to keep people playing. I can agree weapons should Be similar in damage. Like take your Manticore. Every manticore can drop between 1100-1400. Never less (seeing some really low makes people cry). However EVERYTHING ELSE would need to be random, weak or strong rng. Etc.

Thus the gear cannot always be good affixes. Otherwise everyone would have the gear quickly and those interested in getting the best set would be done. Instead of still farming for the better pieces and eventually making enough gold to buy 1 of the X gear slots available.

As I said before. I think people would enjoy D3 a lot more, and the series itself more if they just farmed to "get better" gear and not focus on getting the "best" gear. But again that is asking too much from a lot of players on any game lol.

People farm gear because they have crap gear and the good stuff is so rare, not because it's fun to farm gear. You upgrade by getting better gear.

Instead, if they made it so you upgraded based on time played (which is basically what paragon levelling is), people would farm XP.

People farm gear because they can, not because there's something inherently fun about farming for drops.

This also solves your proposal of farming "better" stuff and not the "best" stuff. You can't go from plvl 50 to plvl 100 in one shot, you have to progress slowly through all the intermediate stuff. There's no AH for XP, although people do pay for power levelling.

In order to not completely kill itemization, they could have the random affix be something interesting, like the puzzle ring, or the litany rings. Maybe there's something that could give a character a passive from another class or something.

 

[thujone]

so for some reason i reinstalled after reading this news. i quit right when paragon levels were introduced. the game feels a lot more put together... but it is still pretty off the mark as far as a blizzard game goes. still i played almost all day yesterday and was fairly satisfied in getting some updated gear... but even so... AH is where the majority of the game takes place. it's like an ebay MMO.


and then today the servers are down for most of the day for maintenance. i'm currently downloading Path of Exile...