Diablo 3 Sucks

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Rambusted

Senior member
Feb 7, 2012
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I never played the first 2 so I am not disappointed with 3. Is it worth it to get 2 to see what I am missing? I actually kind of like 3 although I there are quite a few games with less fanfare and sales that I enjoy more. In response the title, I don't think it sucks it just isn't great, kind of average to above average.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
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Yep, this is supposed to be a Diablo game, where Blizzard defined endless replay value.

If they'd of called the game Call of Diablo: Deckard Ops. Sure, it would be a decent single player/mild co-op play through and throw away game. But they tried to pass it off as Diablo 3.. lol. Sorry, strike out as Diablo 3, strike out as a Blizzard game.

Itemization is gutted and brain dead. There was no need to bring in the simplified World of Warcraft item design. The people still playing this turd are farming gold.. farming gold. To go to the auction house. Game is a joke. Fast place hack n' slash rpg is now a kite fest in Inferno, slow paced and tedious.

I think the folks at Blizzard have gotten arrogant over the success of World of Warcraft and thought because of the game's success they should bring in WoW design elements to Diablo. It's that or they designed the game for maximum profitability and made it to appeal to their WoW player base.

Yes.. total turd. So, your alternative to farming gold is "what" exactly?

Should we go back to Diablo II where we "barter" and you can't trade for a good item because;
a) Boss/gear grind run, some asshole stole your drop.
b) Boss/gear run is so luck dependent and random you never find anything good?

Way I see it, Diablo 3 gold farming addresses both issues above. You get your own drops and you get a consolation prize in gold, which actually has values. No longer do we need some player-community produced currency (SoJ) that has been duped to hell and back.

Sounds like your only problem is Inferno, and you're mad that it's hard... It's a kite fest if you choose to play it that way. I'm solo-ing Inferno and still in Act 1. It's a challenge. Stupidly, ridiculously hard at times, but hey, it's a challenge, and I could just stick to Hell if I don't like it.

OMFG, a company is trying to make money. No. Way. And I'm content with the game. You're entitled to your opinion, but you aren't stating an opinion when you phrase everything in absolutes, which is what you're doing.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
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Where it all breaks down is that the instance of cycle between fun and frustration eventually spreads out so that it is

Fun - > F R U S T R A T I O N ! - > Fun.

And I never found Diablo 2 game play to be bland. And characters in Diablo 2 require significantly more thought than the ones in D3. In diablo 2 you had to figure out how you were going to progress. You had to pick and choose how you allocated your stats and skills to best optimize your gaming experience. In diablo 3 you have none of that. level up and you all of the sudden have stock skills (and no stat increases). And are exactly the same as every other character of that class (barring equipment).

Curious what you mean by no stat increases. Do you mean points towards stats, or stats in general. If the latter, you do get stat increases.

As for stock skills - I recall D2 having stock skills and speciality skills, in which you can power up stocks with points and unlock specialities too and even power them up.

I see similar things in D3, where you can't to pick abilities and then power them up. It is a different form of balance in which you are restricted to 6 abilities versus as many as you can fit on your bar.
 
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thespyder

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2006
1,979
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Curious what you mean by no stat increases. Do you mean points towards stats, or stats in general. If the latter, you do get stat increases.

As for stock skills - I recall D2 having stock skills and speciality skills, in which you can power up stocks with points and unlock specialities too and even power them up.

I see similar things in D3, where you can't to pick abilities and then power them up. It is a different form of balance in which you are restricted to 6 abilities versus as many as you can fit on your bar.

What I mean is that in Diablo 2, whenever you go up a level, you are given points to distribute amongst various Stats (Strength, Dex, Vitality, etc...). You can pick and choose where you think the bonuses will help your character out most. In Diablo 3, all you have are item bonuses to abilities. And they are really 'Streamlined' versions. For Wizard/Demon Hunter, you want as much INT as possible. For Barbies and Monks, it is all about STR/Vitality. And there is no reason to cross over to the others.

Just saying literally every character of the same class and level is identical in potential and capabilities (minus items). Just seems pretty bland to me.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,110
1,260
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Yes.. total turd. So, your alternative to farming gold is "what" exactly?

Should we go back to Diablo II where we "barter" and you can't trade for a good item because;
a) Boss/gear grind run, some asshole stole your drop.
b) Boss/gear run is so luck dependent and random you never find anything good?

Way I see it, Diablo 3 gold farming addresses both issues above. You get your own drops and you get a consolation prize in gold, which actually has values. No longer do we need some player-community produced currency (SoJ) that has been duped to hell and back.

Sounds like your only problem is Inferno, and you're mad that it's hard... It's a kite fest if you choose to play it that way. I'm solo-ing Inferno and still in Act 1. It's a challenge. Stupidly, ridiculously hard at times, but hey, it's a challenge, and I could just stick to Hell if I don't like it.

OMFG, a company is trying to make money. No. Way. And I'm content with the game. You're entitled to your opinion, but you aren't stating an opinion when you phrase everything in absolutes, which is what you're doing.

Opinions are absolutes for those who hold them until/if they change for whatever reason...

I made it further than you did in Inferno (near the end of Act 3) and stopped over a week ago not due to finding it overly difficult, but seeing none of the depth in the game Diablo 2 had. There was no point in continuing because the game did not inspire the passion and enjoyment to keep playing the second did. If you want my opinion on Inferno, it's a mess. One of the few improvements in this game are the more complex abilities of the champions and rares, the mistake was cranking the numbers so high on damage output. It's just not fitting in Diablo. The game never needed to play out that way. The point was always to be able to get amazing items that made your character feel uber powerful. That won't happen in this game. The deviated away from the whole formula of the game, why is anyone's guess. One of the most successful PC games of all time with 20 million copies sold and they thought they should reinvent the wheel... lol

I could care less about Blizzard trying to make money or not. I'm just pointing out they dumbed the franchise down and made it a hybrid of Diablo and WoW to do so.

Stupid move, for me, because if I wanted WoW, I'd still be playing it. This is Diablo. Sorry, was Diablo..
 
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Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
184
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What I mean is that in Diablo 2, whenever you go up a level, you are given points to distribute amongst various Stats (Strength, Dex, Vitality, etc...). You can pick and choose where you think the bonuses will help your character out most. In Diablo 3, all you have are item bonuses to abilities. And they are really 'Streamlined' versions. For Wizard/Demon Hunter, you want as much INT as possible. For Barbies and Monks, it is all about STR/Vitality. And there is no reason to cross over to the others.

Just saying literally every character of the same class and level is identical in potential and capabilities (minus items). Just seems pretty bland to me.

You can call it bland, which it is, but you can also recognize it as a comprimise so that you don't get into the situation where you screw up your character and have to start over. Okay, put in an ability to reset/change your stats anytime or once - now you have to spend hours planning your character, or screw it up and start over. Otherwise, if they let you reset it as much as you want, then what's the point? You essentially get what you get now, which works and you can tailor things on the fly to your style of playing.

This is dumbing down, but it appeals to more players, allows you to try more things, and spend more time playing than planning.
 

Wardawg1001

Senior member
Sep 4, 2008
653
1
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So we clearly have different perspectives. I have much more important things to do in my life than to feed trolls and Blizzard Fanbois.

So now I'm a fanboi because I don't see things your way, because I don't agree with your opinion. Funny how that works, you can claim something is just your point of view, your opinion, but suddenly when it is convenient for you, its enough of a fact that you can call me a blind supporter of Blizzard because I disagree with you. Huh.

I will not cease posting my opinions as you have asked me to do. As stated before, I am equally as entitled to my opinions as you are.

I don't really expect you to not post your opinion, in fact none of this was really for your benefit. It was pretty obvious when you posted 5 or 6 times about how so much of the game was designed to directly push people towards the use of the AH that you were too far gone. You've made up your mind, and no amount of intelligent discussion would change it (I'll admin, I did consider that maybe you weren't completely gone, but that went out the window when you started dodging everything I brought up). No, this was done for the other poor suckers who are reading this thread for (valid) opinions of the game. People who might be sucked in by your bullshit because they don't know any better.

I see things one way and you see them differently. Surprisingly, i don't hate the game as you clearly assume that I do. I merely didn't find it on the caliber that it could have and should have been.

You see things that aren't there. You are making things up, you are spreading lies. I've shown exactly why every one of the mechanics you think is there for the purpose of pushing people towards the use of the AH is actually a completely normal ARPG mechanic that has been present in multiple other games. If you refuse to listen, thats not my problem.

I never said you hated the game. I just think you have some kind of grudge against the way the game turned out, and you are looking for something to blame. I mean, who else finds it necessary to post the same thing (without anyone asking for it) 5-6 times in a single thread? Its clear you thought that Blizzard had sold out before D3 was even released. You can't see the game for what it is, because all you can think about is the dollar signs you think everyone at Blizzard is thinking about when they go to sleep at night.

I am going back to playing (something else as it happens because I finally got bored of being enticed to go auction house).

Okay.

enjoy trolling someone else. And I would recommend that you don't drink too much of the Kool-Aid.

I'm not trolling anyone. You shared your 'opinion' and now refuse to discuss it. If you don't want to, thats fine, stop responding. But don't call ME a troll because I take issue with you spreading misinformation.

For the record, I can hardly be considered a Blizzard fanboi. I never played the original Starcraft. I bought SC2 and got bored of it after a few days. I played a Hunter in WoW up to about level 10 and got bored of it. I did play D1 and D2 (A LOT). I enjoyed WC2 back in the day. I bored of WC3's campaigns after about 2-3 missions, and never played more than a dozen online matches (though I spent a lot of time in custom games, particularly DotA).

I'm not drinking any kool-aid here buddy. I have nothing invested in Blizzard, I'm not some raving fanboi who has been addicted to WoW for 6 years. In fact I haven't spent more than 5 hours playing a Blizzard game in the last 5 years before D3 came out. What I am is an intelligent and rational human being, who is also disappointed with the way D3 came out. Unlike you, I don't feel the need to search out and find perceived flaws with the game so that I can spam them on a gaming forum. There are plenty of problems with D3 right now, but your bogus claim that the whole game was designed with the sole purpose of pushing people towards the RMAH is nonsense, and people deserve to know.

I know you are mad, you just wanted to come share your opinion with the world about how terrible it is that Blizzard has become this money grabbing evil corporation and D3 is the proof! You didn't want to have to talk about it or have anyone question it. Sorry.

Seems to me you did ask me for my opinion.

I asked you to elaborate. In my mind what I was asking for was evidence, concrete examples of gameplay mechanics that served no purpose beyond pushing people to use the RMAH. You failed miserably at providing that.
 

thespyder

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2006
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You can call it bland, which it is, but you can also recognize it as a comprimise so that you don't get into the situation where you screw up your character and have to start over. Okay, put in an ability to reset/change your stats anytime or once - now you have to spend hours planning your character, or screw it up and start over. Otherwise, if they let you reset it as much as you want, then what's the point? You essentially get what you get now, which works and you can tailor things on the fly to your style of playing.

This is dumbing down, but it appeals to more players, allows you to try more things, and spend more time playing than planning.

I fully admit it is more "Different" than "Bad". Personally, I prefer mapping out my character 'Build' to see what it can do. And I like the fact that not every instance of Barbarian is an exact clone of every other instance (same stats and ability potential sans equipment) as you see in D2. But I also see that builds can lead to dead ends and non-viable characters. My preference would have been to up the instance of rebuilds (pay X gold, or maybe complete Y Quests to gain the ability to reset your skills/stats) instead of removing all semblance of builds at all. But it isn't my game. So I take what I can get.

I am currently replaying NWN2 - Storm of Zehir and finding it much more satisfying from character build perspective. I can customize every aspect of my characters and actually map out their progression. That is more satisfying to me, although i fully admit that it doesn't speak to everyone's style of game play.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
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Just saying literally every character of the same class and level is identical in potential and capabilities (minus items). Just seems pretty bland to me.

Is that a generalization? I could argue the same for every character in Diablo 2.

Diablo 2 gave you points, which I'm more than sure users distributed in a similar method (and I'm sure you'll say you didn't) since Cookie-Cutter mentallities aren't new. Most people probably aimed for a "soft cap" of a specific value, hit it then went on their way, but essentially they were still making copy-cat like builds.

I know in my example of Diablo 3, I'm not doing what a lot of Monks seem to be doing. I can say I'm unique (but I'm sure other's are doing something similar to me.)

These "bland comments" and "every user is the same" are so vaque and meaningless since, essentially your points to support it can be applied to even the game you hold in higher regards - Diablo 2, but you'll throw some asterisks about how "but you still had the option."
 

thespyder

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2006
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Is that a generalization? I could argue the same for every character in Diablo 2.

Diablo 2 gave you points, which I'm more than sure users distributed in a similar method (and I'm sure you'll say you didn't) since Cookie-Cutter mentallities aren't new. Most people probably aimed for a "soft cap" of a specific value, hit it then went on their way, but essentially they were still making copy-cat like builds.

I know in my example of Diablo 3, I'm not doing what a lot of Monks seem to be doing. I can say I'm unique (but I'm sure other's are doing something similar to me.)

These "bland comments" and "every user is the same" are so vaque and meaningless since, essentially your points to support it can be applied to even the game you hold in higher regards - Diablo 2, but you'll throw some asterisks about how "but you still had the option."

It isn't a generalization, and you can't say that about Diablo 2.

In Diablo 2, you pick stat points to place at each level. This will lead to a different character (almost) every single time as some will have high strength to wear armor and some will have high INT for mana points (etc...) and some will have a general distribution to make a more rounded character. In diablo 3, you don't get stat points to distribute (I am not talking about gear, I am speaking of straight character). Period. There is zero comparison.

As for skills, in diablo 2, a Necromancer that has 20 skill points in Skeleton summon has an ability that a Necromancer who doesn't have points in skeleton Summoning doesn't have and can't have without extra points or a complete rebuild. Yet that same Necromancer might have points in bone armor and bone spear where the other doesn't. In diablo 3, every single character gets every single ability of that class (appropriate to level). There is no ability that a Demon Hunter can't use at 60th level (without a rebuild).

Just to be clear, this is "Different" from Diablo 2, not "Necessarily" Better or worse. My personal subjective opinion is it is worse. but I agree this is subjective.

At the end of the day, you may not want 'Builds', which means that Diablo 3 is better (for you). I like being able to build a Paladin and know that every other Paladin out there isn't a few clicks of the mouse away from my exact build. and that I can play two separate Assassins with completely different ability/skill sets and there to be meaning to those differences.
 
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darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
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lol you put points into int in D2

"Building" in D2 is extremely overstated. You pick one skill and max it and it becomes your main attack. Then you pick all the other skills that give bonuses to your main skill and max them. That's it. You can count on one hand the number of 'builds' used by any given class.

For your stats, you max Vit. Str and Dex you only raise just high enough to wear your gear. If you wear a shield, you put just enough into dex to get whatever block percent you want.
 
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thespyder

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2006
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lol you put points into int in D2

"Building" in D2 is extremely overstated. You pick one skill and max it and it becomes your main attack. Then you pick all the other skills that give bonuses to your main skill and max them. That's it. You can count on one hand the number of 'builds' used by any given class.

For your stats, you max Vit. Str and Dex you only raise just high enough to wear your gear. If you wear a shield, you put just enough into dex to get whatever block percent you want.

For a Min/Maxer, you may be right. But in Diablo 2 you had the choice to go that direction or to build whatever you wanted.

In Diablo 3, you have NO choices as far as these go.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
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Just as I said:

These "bland comments" and "every user is the same" are so vaque and meaningless since, essentially your points to support it can be applied to even the game you hold in higher regards - Diablo 2, but you'll throw some asterisks about how "but you still had the option."

For a Min/Maxer, you may be right. But in Diablo 2 you had the choice to go that direction or to build whatever you wanted.

In Diablo 3, you have NO choices as far as these go.

Majority of people will be min/max'ers using some form of cookie cutting template or "the what's hot" combination they read on some forum.

Waffle supported that even Diablo 2 had that issue, but for those (like yourself) that wanted to be different you had the choice. Now that is removed and it seems you are putting a lot of weight on it, perhaps because that is what you enjoyed most from the serious.
 

Udgnim

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2008
3,665
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For a Min/Maxer, you may be right. But in Diablo 2 you had the choice to go that direction or to build whatever you wanted.

In Diablo 3, you have NO choices as far as these go.

the choice is just purely through gear now

it's apparent with ranged classes in Inferno going glass cannon and not caring about Vitality/defensive stats.

Inferno does force melee to itemize more towards survivability though, but there are 2H SC2 barbs out there that can handle Inferno
 

gothamhunter

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2010
4,464
6
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Heh, you are absolutely right, it's all about farming gear. And it is much more so in D3 than in D2. D2 you at least get to customize your character, but in D3, it's all about which skill assigned to which key, and all the attributes are determined by your gear.

Oh and you ever think about why Blizzard make this game so gear dependent? Real Money Auction House anyone?

Pity the sheeps just follow their Blizzard overlord and pay up as they command.

Dear Lord I'm tired of this argument. I'm outta this thread lol.
 

thespyder

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2006
1,979
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Just as I said:

Majority of people will be min/max'ers using some form of cookie cutting template or "the what's hot" combination they read on some forum.

Waffle supported that even Diablo 2 had that issue, but for those (like yourself) that wanted to be different you had the choice. Now that is removed and it seems you are putting a lot of weight on it, perhaps because that is what you enjoyed most from the serious.

I love people who use generalizations to support their claim that Diablo 3 isn't generalized. "Majority of people will be min/max'ers". I would disagree, but that is hardly the point.

Regardless of how many players are min/max'ers doesn't change the fact that Diablo 2 had the option to make more diverse, more individual and less generalized characters than Diablo 3. the population who make use of that choice doesn't invalidate that there were options available in diablo 2 that simply don't exist in Diablo 3.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
7,596
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I really miss uniques in D3. I remember in D2 that when an unidentified unique item dropped (before you were so familiar with all the uniques that you automatically knew what a unique Flachion would be), you actually got excited, because it was likely that this was a useful item and desirable. Now, with legendaries, they totally suck, and I can't see any legendary items being known-by-name. Everybody in D2 knew what Frostburn Gauntlets were, or the Vampire Gaze, or a Stone of Jordan, etc. With how pathetic and forgettable legendaries are now, I can't see any of them gaining a truly legendary reputation, and for a game that is so item-centric, this severely tarnishes the appeal for me, and many others I'm sure.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
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For a Min/Maxer, you may be right. But in Diablo 2 you had the choice to go that direction or to build whatever you wanted.

In Diablo 3, you have NO choices as far as these go.

That is incorrect. Devs have largely said that they removed attributes on level because attributes on gems is a superior mechanic to provide THE EXACT SAME customization.

You want to stack int on your barb? Do it with gems.

The main difference being that in D3 stacking all vitality isn't always the best move, so you have some decisions to make, unlike D2.

Re legendaries, many non-weapon legendaries are damn nice. But they are also priced accordingly, and probably out of your hands. Just because the crap rolled legendaries in your price range are bad doesn't mean they all are. Weapons excluded, due to the mechanics behind DPS calculation they are way behind and they really are mostly pointless, but Blizzard has said they will adjust them to make them worth their rarity.
 
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Wardawg1001

Senior member
Sep 4, 2008
653
1
81
I really miss uniques in D3. I remember in D2 that when an unidentified unique item dropped (before you were so familiar with all the uniques that you automatically knew what a unique Flachion would be), you actually got excited, because it was likely that this was a useful item and desirable. Now, with legendaries, they totally suck, and I can't see any legendary items being known-by-name. Everybody in D2 knew what Frostburn Gauntlets were, or the Vampire Gaze, or a Stone of Jordan, etc. With how pathetic and forgettable legendaries are now, I can't see any of them gaining a truly legendary reputation, and for a game that is so item-centric, this severely tarnishes the appeal for me, and many others I'm sure.

Interesting, I think Stormshield would like a word with you regarding the bolded part. As for the rest, I can think of a few items that might disagree:

Andariels Visage
Skull Grasp
Hammer Jammers
Lacuni Prowlers
Helm of Command
Eternal Union
Bul-Kathos Wedding Band
Tyrael's Might
Oculus Ring
Ouroboros
String of Ears
Depth Diggers
Boj Anglers
Kymbo's Gold
Unity
Justice Lantern
The Oculus
Band of Hollow Whipers

These are all Legendary items that are highly sought after for Inferno game play, many for their unique stats. Good rolls of most of these items are worth millions. Some of them are even considered BiS (best in slot) for some classes/builds. These are just the items I know of, I'm sure there are others that I haven't had a reason to look in to because they have never come up on an item search I've done or are only good for classes I haven't played yet (for those who can't tell, those are almost exclusively Barbarian and Wizard items, though some could be considered useful for the other classes as well). I also haven't included any weapons, because most of them really are awful. There are a few that are good stepping stones until you can afford a nicer weapon (Windforce and Hellrack come to mind), but thats about it. It is also worth noting that the only way to get Magic Find on a weapon is through certain Legendaries (actually it may be on some set items as well, I'm not sure on that).

Now thats not to say that Legendaries are perfect. While many Legendaries carry stats that are not normally available for that item slot (for instance Helm of Command has +block chance, a stat you can't get on any other Helmet), I don't think any of them have stats that simply don't exist anywhere else, which was something very cool about some D2 Legendaries and Rune Words. Blizzard has also stated that they are looking in to buffing many Legendaries, and I hope they consider adding completely unique stats/abilities to them at some point as well (though not so good that it makes these items mandatory, too many mandatory items becomes boring).
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,196
197
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I really miss uniques in D3. I remember in D2 that when an unidentified unique item dropped (before you were so familiar with all the uniques that you automatically knew what a unique Flachion would be), you actually got excited, because it was likely that this was a useful item and desirable. Now, with legendaries, they totally suck, and I can't see any legendary items being known-by-name. Everybody in D2 knew what Frostburn Gauntlets were, or the Vampire Gaze, or a Stone of Jordan, etc. With how pathetic and forgettable legendaries are now, I can't see any of them gaining a truly legendary reputation, and for a game that is so item-centric, this severely tarnishes the appeal for me, and many others I'm sure.

Harlequin Crest Shako

That is all.

(That helm was so good I even used it for a Barb)

Ironically enough, Diablo 2 Classic (prior to the expansion) had mind-blowing Rares, very similarly so to how it is now in Diablo 3, the problem being that for D3 Rares is almost the only thing we're looking for, which makes them common. Rather than that it should be uncommonly desired, but when you do find one that kicks ass everyone else can't believe it, that's how it was for a time back in D2 Classic.
 

diesbudt

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,393
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Considering the "choices" in diablo 2 and diablo 3 differences.

The only thing I think diablo 2 ever did was give an illusion of choice. Because once a build is tested, and is good and posted online, it becomes a cookie cutter build. And if a serious player didn't follow said build, most the time he got verbally attacked for sucking or not knowing the game (and so on), this is true for basically any game that requries one to build a character through talents/experience.

So few people made un-normal builds late into diablo 2. So it can be said, all diablo 3 did was remove the illusion you controlled how your character was built.

Also in D2 only a handful of abilities/set-ups were even useful for the hardcore players and the Hell players. Most of the skills were so useless and never picked up, except as enhancements to a different talent you wanted, or a requriement to talent beyond that one.

However, I know just from my experience in D3 on one character, my build kept changing as the game went on and got harder and except for maybe 1 skill, I have used each one in some combination.

This is the way games are going, as many companies have finally started realizing cookie cutter builds will always exist. So the trend seems they will be cutting back on character build customization and try finding ways for people to choose different ways to play by alternative means.

(WoW is also removing talent trees in their next expansion and doing talents in a different way)
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
Legendary armor is quite exceptional, even including a number of sub-60 legendaries that are highly sought after for their unique properties. Just seconding what was said before; weapons aren't up to par at the moment but I think that's more to do with the greater relative power of "flat" damage mods mixed with percentage damage mods compared to D2, which makes it much easier for blue items to outmatch a legendary.

Shit, I paid 14M for a Helm of Command with amazing stats, and I'm pretty sure I could resell it for substantially more than that if I wished to. And I still want quite a few legendaries/sets; I think my next purchase is a good String of Ears and then I'm still on the hunt for an ASPD Justice Lantern and a good Blackthorne's Medal and Stormshield.

Also customization is there in D3. Just from a barb perspective, there's a number of viable builds. Sword + board tank, any of the various zerg builds, sprinter, and thrower come to mind. And even then you can customize them; some people swear by Cleave, some like Frenzy. Some prefer Ground Stomp as a cooldown, some prefer Ignore Pain.

Not to mention people are finding new ways to utilize abilities every day; just recently it was made known on the barb forums that Overpower with the Crushing Advance glyph not only reflects damage but mitigates damage as well as proccing LoH; now do you take Overpower for the extra healing and cooldown or Ignore Pain for the stronger, longer cooldown? Do you have enough LoH to make Overpower a useful heal? Or do you skip both and take Threatening Shout for more persistent reduction? Or leap for the 4 sec near invuln and movement? Or is just Furious Charge enough mobility for you? If you take Furious Charge just for mobility would you be better off getting the cooldown reduction on it to use it multiple times?

There are tons of choices to be made, every day we play my friends and I struggle and go back and forth trying to find the right build for how we're playing, how we're geared, what we're strong against and what we're weak against.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
126
I love people who use generalizations to support their claim that Diablo 3 isn't generalized. "Majority of people will be min/max'ers". I would disagree, but that is hardly the point.

Irony is you disagreeing is making another generalized statement - so, that's counter-productive to your point

Regardless of how many players are min/max'ers doesn't change the fact that Diablo 2 had the option to make more diverse, more individual and less generalized characters than Diablo 3. the population who make use of that choice doesn't invalidate that there were options available in diablo 2 that simply don't exist in Diablo 3.

I never said it should remove it, I said from my experience of playing games people tend to use cookie-cutter style builds posted by elite players on forums. When i start to see similar trends in First Person Shooters (Borderlands anyone?) I know it isn't just a handful. Many consider it the "competive" edge to stat stack "appropriately." That doesn't mean at all we agree with it (I never stacked Stamina as a tank in WoW, and got rediculed for my low HP, but I sure did take a lot less DMG than most other tanks )

And yet someone else supports my claim:

Considering the "choices" in diablo 2 and diablo 3 differences.

The only thing I think diablo 2 ever did was give an illusion of choice. Because once a build is tested, and is good and posted online, it becomes a cookie cutter build. And if a serious player didn't follow said build, most the time he got verbally attacked for sucking or not knowing the game (and so on), this is true for basically any game that requries one to build a character through talents/experience.

WoW is changing in the next expansion to attempt to remove the cookie-cutter mentality by making all skills available to a class minus job specific skills.

The options are to buff abilities you have, as a tank player I noticed in one tier you are given an option between a mitigation skill or a self heal skill. As a raid tank I'd figure the mitigation skill is clearly best, but I can see where a lower geared tank would benefit more from the self heal buff.

As a monk I just swapped out one passive for another to help with the incoming DMG in Hell Act II - and so far it has been a great help. I've also got 3 "level appropriate" upgrades from a pack of elites, so not sure where you get that they don't exist. I was wondering if perhaps you out leveled the zone/act and thus weren't seeing "level appropriate" upgrades.
 

ShadowOfMyself

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2006
4,227
2
0
I actually like the fact that rares are better than uniques, thats pretty much the way it should always be... Because ironically, rares are unique, but uniques are only rare

I think thats something that made D1 and D2 pre-LoD very cool, once you got a hold of a kickass rare, NO ONE else in the server had it, so you could legitimately brag about having the best sword in server etc... With uniques its just "Oh I have that too"

The thing is, there should be a very small chance that rares will also have a special ability... Or even better, thinking of the ethereal items in D2, which had a 5% chance to spawn, with 50% extra damage/defense, but irreparable

They could do something similar with "special" stats... 5% chance that a legendary will get some extremely powerful stat that they usually dont, and make it random at that

Everything just so players can feel their character is unique
 
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