Diablo III requires constant internet connection

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Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
The whole point of the (side) discussion is to debunk the idea that D3 being online only has to do with blizzard intending to do away with hacking. The difference in what we want to discuss is that you think online "might" get rid of all hacking. Convenient, no one can really ever disprove that theory. Just like this rock I keep in my pocket might have been what's kept me from being attacked by tigers all this time.

Stop being so dense. The point is that an always-online game provides more opportunities to prevent hacking than an offline game.

It is a proven trend, and there is solid reasoning behind it. Being always online gives the developers a much strong tool to combat hacking.

Just look at games that store things locally (titan quest, open/singleplayer diablo) and compare that to games that are online. The ease and level of hacking is reduced.

It is all about authorizing access, and online play lets Blizzard make sure you aren't on the naughty list.
 

Martimus

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2007
4,488
153
106
Stop being so dense. The point is that an always-online game provides more opportunities to prevent hacking than an offline game.

It is a proven trend, and there is solid reasoning behind it. Being always online gives the developers a much strong tool to combat hacking.

Just look at games that store things locally (titan quest, open/singleplayer diablo) and compare that to games that are online. The ease and level of hacking is reduced.

It is all about authorizing access, and online play lets Blizzard make sure you aren't on the naughty list.

Why would anyone care if I hacked the game? It isn't exactly a PvP centric game, and the only person I would be cheating if I hacked it would be myself. Although I was never big into playing PvE online, but I did on occasion with Diablo (don't think I ever did it with D2, since my experience in multiplayer in Diablo wasn't that great).

I would like to get this game someday. Maybe they will remove the required internet connection at some point, but I doubt it. Most likely it will just be something that I will put up with if the game is ever cheap enough. Since I am in no hurry to play it (I have plenty of other games to play) I won't buy it until it is sufficiently cheap. By that time, I probably won't care to buy it though.
 

tedrodai

Golden Member
Jan 18, 2006
1,014
1
0
Chiropteran...how's your blood pressure, man? Sounds like you're taking things personally. I could have chosen a better way to phrase my 2nd post, so sorry about that, but uh...it's not like we were even talking about dupes. We were talking about bugs and hacks in general. Let me see if I can clarify a little. I think this is the quote you first took offense to:

The "always-online" does give them a decently higher level of control over the game, but it hardly gives them the solution to cheats.

I never said you thought always-online meant bug/hack free. Maybe I should have explained a little more, but I assumed we were following the conversation that included:

What a joke. Set it to 30% life and never die? Hardcore? More like cheat-core. This is why diablo 3 will require constant internet connection, so these sort of cheats can be prevented.

p0nd had subsequently disagreed with you about the constant internet connection, and you disagreed right back in the post I quoted. The idea I mean to get across is the fact that it's NOT the constant internet connection that prevents and allows them to fix cheats. To prevent cheats, you need good game design and implementation. To fix them, you need good feedback (gained passively or actively) from the players and/or testers...and a good game design to work with.

Some good game design aspects to help fight the types of exploits we're discussing include protecting the interfaces available for (1) item creation and players obtaining them, (2) item trading, and (3) item/character data storage. Also, only storing item/character data on company servers rather than client PCs isn't such a bad idea (D2's used client and server, so this was one of its major problems). You simply do not require clients to be always connected in order to accomplish these things. It helps, definitely, because it facilitates good feedback, but it's not hardly required. I'd bet money they could release a dupe-free game without the always-online.

WoW devs fixed cheats the same way they fixed them in D2 (discover a cheat, send out a patch), they just had a better overall game design (and better technology such as more bandwidth to exploit). Oh...and more importantly, they were making more revenue with WoW, so they had/have more people devoted to fixing major problems.

The reason I picked only 1 line to respond to in the 2nd post is because I had no problem with the rest of the post. It had nothing to do with throwing out the rest of your arguments. However, I probably interpreted you too literally.
 

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,140
138
106
Man, seriously, fuck the online community. You guys are why we (single player gamers) can't have nice things.

I personally love buying games that shaft the online community.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Personally I like to shaft women, and then play my online games or single player games. It's awesome that I have that choice, I live in the middle of nowhere in a town of 300 and have 5bit internet, and really, unless your a mountain man in Montana, this is still a non-issue. For those talking about losing stuff due to an outage? That's what save games are for..you must have really hated the old console days. My electricity goes out much more than my internet ever does. If anything I'd be crying about the $60 pricetag rather than this....
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Man, seriously, fuck the online community. You guys are why we (single player gamers) can't have nice things.

I personally love buying games that shaft the online community.

How do you think you're doing in your campaign against online gamers? Judging by this thread, not so well.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
Why would anyone care if I hacked the game? It isn't exactly a PvP centric game, and the only person I would be cheating if I hacked it would be myself. Although I was never big into playing PvE online, but I did on occasion with Diablo (don't think I ever did it with D2, since my experience in multiplayer in Diablo wasn't that great).

I would like to get this game someday. Maybe they will remove the required internet connection at some point, but I doubt it. Most likely it will just be something that I will put up with if the game is ever cheap enough. Since I am in no hurry to play it (I have plenty of other games to play) I won't buy it until it is sufficiently cheap. By that time, I probably won't care to buy it though.

Even if it isn't PvP centric, it still has PvP elements, which hacking would completely ruin.

Also, hacking also effects the economy and (in D2) the bartering system. With the auction house, stopping duping and hacking is more important than ever for Blizzard.

That said, there is still no real reason not to have an offline/open/singleplayer mode. They did it once, why not do it again?

If they let retards kill players characters and their loot drops they can **** off with this game.

Why do people keep mentioning this? Did anyone really think this was going to happen?
 

Rifter

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,522
751
126
Unless they stop the bots as well duping is a non issue. Who cares if you can dupe items if you can just have a bot do boss runs and get you inventories full or rare items. Its pretty much the same thing, after enough time the bot will get the item you want.

IMO bots are just as big of a issue as duping, especially with the auction house now your bots can literally make you cash money.
 

badb0y

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2010
4,015
30
91
Back in the year 2000 Blizzard never thought that Diablo 2 would explode like it did, especially the online hacking community. In this day and age I expect Blizzard to be much more prepared to combat duping and botting.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
I get chiropteran's point but who cares if someone in duping items or "hacking" in offline? how does that affect other players?
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
p0nd had subsequently disagreed with you about the constant internet connection, and you disagreed right back in the post I quoted. The idea I mean to get across is the fact that it's NOT the constant internet connection that prevents and allows them to fix cheats. To prevent cheats, you need good game design and implementation. To fix them, you need good feedback (gained passively or actively) from the players and/or testers...and a good game design to work with.

Some good game design aspects to help fight the types of exploits we're discussing include protecting the interfaces available for (1) item creation and players obtaining them, (2) item trading, and (3) item/character data storage. Also, only storing item/character data on company servers rather than client PCs isn't such a bad idea (D2's used client and server, so this was one of its major problems). You simply do not require clients to be always connected in order to accomplish these things. It helps, definitely, because it facilitates good feedback, but it's not hardly required. I'd bet money they could release a dupe-free game without the always-online.

This is one case where we each have different opinions about the subject and there is no way to test or prove them. However, history is on my side. Diablo 1 didn't require active internet connection, dupes galore. Diablo 2 didn't require active internet connection, dupes galore. WoW requires active internet connection, very very few dupes and any that actually did occur were probably rolled back.

Further, I simply don't agree with your statement "To prevent cheats, you need good game design and implementation." Programmers are people, and modern computer games are incredibly complex. It's inevitable that there will be some flaws or bugs which can be exploited. If you do not require always-online play, if you have 1 single exploitable flaw, it will ruin the game forever. You can never fix it, because the cheaters simply won't apply the fix or patch you release. On the other hand, if your game does require being online, any flaw discovered can be patched, and the game client can be forced to patch before play begins, and further any ill-gotten gains from an exploit can be reversed through a character rollback. It's really a world of difference.



I get chiropteran's point but who cares if someone in duping items or "hacking" in offline? how does that affect other players?

In an online-only game, critical parts of the game engine can reside on blizzards servers. For example, the item generation code. This can make it much harder to hack. However, if an 100% offline mode is available, it means the entire game needs to be run from the users machine, which takes away any control blizzard has.

Hypothetically, blizzard could work extra hard and release 2 different versions of the game, one which runs on the user's machine for offline-only mode and another version with portions that run on blizzard's server, but I see a couple reasons why they don't. For one, not worth the effort- minimal gains for a lot of extra work. For another, by giving players the complete package on one side, it could be easier for hackers to dismantle it and use it to emulate blizzard's servers.

It also destroys the achievement system. Either you disable the achievements in offline mode, which leads to tons of forum drama "haha you noob you haven't even beat act 1" "no, I beat the game, but I did it offline so the achievement doesn't show". Or you allow offline achievements to count, which degrades the whole system given there would no way to confirm how legit the offline achievements actually are. Or you create 2 different sets of achievements for each mode, again more work for blizzard for minimal gain.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
Unless they stop the bots as well duping is a non issue. Who cares if you can dupe items if you can just have a bot do boss runs and get you inventories full or rare items. Its pretty much the same thing, after enough time the bot will get the item you want.

IMO bots are just as big of a issue as duping, especially with the auction house now your bots can literally make you cash money.

How is a bot different from having some kid play 16 hours a day for you farming? Duping is immensely more damaging to the game than simply being able to farm the same as anyone else but with less effort.

As I addressed earlier, I don't think bots can or should be policed, but the game should be complex and difficult enough to make it impossible to bot efficiently.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
0
0
The third party hacks have both single and multiplayer functionality.

If you want to cheat, just use the official cheat codes http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/1316152

When you go to a third party program for a game whose entirely life revolves around online play, you ruin the integrity of the game.

WHO SAYS the entire game revolves around online play... see that's the problem.

For me it was a single player game that I still have NEVER played 1 online match and do not care to do so..

that's the issue here..

and the same issue with D3..

WHO THE FUCK are you or them to tell me how I can play a game that I buy...

if its an MMO fine.. that's a given it's online only..

but this is NOT..
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
0
0
I disagree with this, and don't think you really thought that through.




SC2 has cheats built in; going to 3rd party programs just wrecks any sense of legitimacy a player may have as well as risks the safety of the online community.



The built in Cheats suck ass..
I pay for a service that builds trainers for my games (cheathappens) so WTF cannot I use them.

And again you are blabbering about some fucking sort of community .. ONE THAT I AM NOT A PART OF.. I play single player only.. and GIVE A FUCK what Joe Smuckatelli has for achievements or if he cheats or not..
 

stlcardinals

Senior member
Sep 15, 2005
729
0
76
WHO SAYS the entire game revolves around online play... see that's the problem.

For me it was a single player game that I still have NEVER played 1 online match and do not care to do so..

that's the issue here..

and the same issue with D3..

WHO THE FUCK are you or them to tell me how I can play a game that I buy...

if its an MMO fine.. that's a given it's online only..

but this is NOT..

Can you please show me where Blizzard has classified or marketed Diablo 3 as a single player game. If you can show me some examples, I'll gladly buy your argument.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
0
0
Can you please show me where Blizzard has classified or marketed Diablo 3 as a single player game. If you can show me some examples, I'll gladly buy your argument.

can you show me where they have marketed it as MP only?
same argument..

D1 and 2 were both single player games..
with OPTIONAL MP.

I can honestly count the number of times I played either of those games online on 1 hand..

the hacks and antisocial players were rampant back then.. as well as not having dedicated high speed internet back than and having to pay for dialup to connect back then..

just not worth it..

In fact not 1 promotional video has been shown with MP in use.. everything shown thus far is single player footage.
 

Rifter

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,522
751
126
How is a bot different from having some kid play 16 hours a day for you farming? Duping is immensely more damaging to the game than simply being able to farm the same as anyone else but with less effort.

As I addressed earlier, I don't think bots can or should be policed, but the game should be complex and difficult enough to make it impossible to bot efficiently.

The difference is a bot means no one has to play for you. You go away for a weekend and come home to craploads of items, worth real money that you didnt do anything to actually get other than script a bot.

If you dont understand how thats going to effect the in game economy, especially with the AH then i dont know what to say.
 

gothamhunter

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2010
4,464
6
81
The difference is a bot means no one has to play for you. You go away for a weekend and come home to craploads of items, worth real money that you didnt do anything to actually get other than script a bot.

If you dont understand how thats going to effect the in game economy, especially with the AH then i dont know what to say.
:thumbsup:
 

Josh123

Diamond Member
Aug 4, 2002
3,030
2
76
Honestly, I have no idea what to expect from the game right now. It's been kind of a rollercoaster ride for me and the only way to find out if I will like it is to actually play it.

From the start I was really turned off by the non "gritty" look of the game, then the whole real money auction house feature. I keep thinking "Ok this is Blizzard, they know what they are doing." so I guess we will have to wait and see.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
:thumbsup:

Who cares about the in game economy? It's not like they are going to kill you with those items. The only thing it is good for is the "pokemon" I gotta collect them all mindset which I never subscribed to. People WILL use it to simply finish out a build they can't find everything for. There will be many who immediately try to farm for real money, but, eventually when they realize they are working for 20 cents an hour, many will quit doing that. I make way too much real world money to waste time doing that.

As for the 5 people in the world who never played Diablo 2 MP..yea. Well keep on keeping on.

You all act like it's The Sims: Underground Edition.
 
Last edited:

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,218
2
76
Can you please show me where Blizzard has classified or marketed Diablo 3 as a single player game. If you can show me some examples, I'll gladly buy your argument.

because its Diablo 3, and D1 and D2 had SP. Its pretty late in the game for them drop the bomb that BY THE WAY we dropped a large FEATURE for the game
 

gothamhunter

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2010
4,464
6
81
Who cares about the in game economy? It's not like they are going to kill you with those items. The only thing it is good for is the "pokemon" I gotta collect them all mindset which I never subscribed to. People WILL use it to simply finish out a build they can't find everything for. There will be many who immediately try to farm for real money, but, eventually when they realize they are working for 20 cents an hour, many will quit doing that. I make way too much real world money to waste time doing that.

As for the 5 people in the world who never played Diablo 2 MP..yea. Well keep on keeping on.

If someone cheats to farm high level mobs for rare items and is able to sell them for $5 a pop, yeah, I'm going to be pissed if I finally get the same item after some work. Plus, cheaters able to have bots running for hours upon hours will eventually flood the market with high level items, completely devalue-ing them and ruining the market. If you've never played an online game where there's an AH, then you don't really understand how much the in-game economy really does matter.
 
Last edited:

gothamhunter

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2010
4,464
6
81
because its Diablo 3, and D1 and D2 had SP. Its pretty late in the game for them drop the bomb that BY THE WAY we dropped a large FEATURE for the game

Just because it had SP, doesn't mean it was marketed as a SP game. D2 was, as I recall, heavily marketed as a MP game.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
0
0
Just because it had SP, doesn't mean it was marketed as a SP game. D2 was heavily marketed as a MP game.

LOL.. you better go back and look at those old ads again..

D2 was an SP dungeon crawler game with optional coop/MP. it was still the days of the modem... so it was not very popular to play online yet..
most people were still on 56K back then and most paid per connection still.
 
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