Diablo III requires constant internet connection

[Grooveriding]

The difference is a bot means no one has to play for you. You go away for a weekend and come home to craploads of items, worth real money that you didnt do anything to actually get other than script a bot.

If you dont understand how thats going to effect the in game economy, especially with the AH then i dont know what to say.

I really don't think you're getting it.

A bot is still subject to the drop rate rarity of the good items in the game. After say a week of running your bot, maybe, maybe it finds an extremely rare item, one of them.

That versus firing up your dupe hack and instantly making 10, 100 or heck, let's make 1000 of that same item is a completely different animal. Duping is the real threat to this sort of game and what totally devalued everything in D2's economy.

As I said in an earlier post we won't see duping in this game. They squashed in WoW, they'll be able to squash it in D3. There will be bots though, nothing they can do about someone with the knowledge to code a script to play the game for them.

 

[gothamhunter]

LOL.. you better go back and look at those old ads again..

D2 was an SP dungeon crawler game with optional coop/MP. it was still the days of the modem... so it was not very popular to play online yet..
most people were still on 56K back then and most paid per connection still.

Yeah, 56k sucked a lot lol.

I remember the vidoe ads, and none of them really mentioned online from what I recall (or much about the game in general. The one with real people dressed as the characters was awesome though).

However, from word of mouth and from what I always saw in stores, there was a big "Play with people around the world, online!" advertising push going with it.

Media-wise yeah it wasn't really mentioned. However, from everyone I know that played it, from stores, and from the in-store advertising, MP seemed to be a big push.

 

[p0nd]

I really don't think you're getting it.

A bot is still subject to the drop rate rarity of the good items in the game. After say a week of running your bot, maybe, maybe it finds an extremely rare item, one of them.

Uh, but none of us know how rare items will be or how the drop tables will work in D3 so your second sentence is baseless speculation.

In D2 an MF bot would do hundreds of runs/day. You could leave it on, go to work/sleep and come back to a backpack full of goodies. You didn't need to find the rarest items, all you needed to get was the popular ones.

 

[ImpulsE69]

If someone cheats to farm high level mobs for rare items and is able to sell them for $5 a pop, yeah, I'm going to be pissed if I finally get the same item after some work. Plus, cheaters able to have bots running for hours upon hours will eventually flood the market with high level items, completely devalue-ing them and ruining the market. If you've never played an online game where there's an AH, then you don't really understand how much the in-game economy really does matter.

I played Eve for over 4 years. I get that aspect, except in 99% (if not all) those games the economy is driven by the PVP aspect which creates a market (due to stuff being destroyed) and wanting to be better than your competitor.

This game with no PVP(unless I missed something) makes there practically NO need to actually buy anything. Yes, people will probably sell items for $5 for awhile but it would be rare, and since it sounds like Blizzard will control drop rates, I am guessing they will watch the AH and adjust accordingly.

Someone buying the item vs you getting it after playing really is no different. Someone had to get that item to begin with (even if it was a bot). There will be bots, or at least slave labor kids working 24/7 to get items, no way around that. It exists in almost any game where money can be made. My point simply is as I stated above: With no PVP aspect, the value of said items is remarkably lowered to null except to those that feel they have to collect everything (which I'm sure there will be plenty of), but what this means for the normal player is, well nothing because in the grand scheme of the game, it has no affect on them.

 

[gothamhunter]

I really don't think you're getting it.

A bot is still subject to the drop rate rarity of the good items in the game. After say a week of running your bot, maybe, maybe it finds an extremely rare item, one of them.

That versus firing up your dupe hack and instantly making 10, 100 or heck, let's make 1000 of that same item is a completely different animal. Duping is the real threat to this sort of game and what totally devalued everything in D2's economy.

As I said in an earlier post we won't see duping in this game. They squashed in WoW, they'll be able to squash it in D3. There will be bots though, nothing they can do about someone with the knowledge to code a script to play the game for them.

A bot will still devalue the items though.

Say it takes, on average, 12 in-game hours to find item X.

Run bot 24/7 = finding about two per day, which is about 14/week.

Say even running it 12 hours/day, so that it takes a break every 3 or 4 hours so that it doesn't get too suspicious
That's still 1/day, 7/week.

Now you come home after work/school and play Diablo 3, and say you have 4 hours to play, = 1/3 days, which is about 2/week.

Now multiply that by many, many bots.

 

[Chiropteran]

The difference is a bot means no one has to play for you. You go away for a weekend and come home to craploads of items, worth real money that you didnt do anything to actually get other than script a bot.

If you dont understand how thats going to effect the in game economy, especially with the AH then i dont know what to say.

Effect the economy, sure. I'll buy that. But you compared it to duping. It's not even the same ballpark.

Duping- Super rare item worth $25? Well, now I have 1000 of them after pressing a few buttons, and the AH market is pointless.

Botting- Super rare item worth $25? Well after running my bot for 3 days, I didn't get one, but I did get this nice rare shield that is worth $1.30 on the AH. Go me!

Legit farming- Super rare item worth $25? Nope, but I did get some nice rares I can sell for $3-$5 after a nice evening of playing. Too bad those bots are too primitive to handle the harder bosses.

 

[gothamhunter]

I played Eve for over 4 years. I get that aspect, except 99% (if not all) have that economy because of the PVP aspect which creates a market (due to stuff being destroyed) and wanting to be better than your competitor.

This game with no PVP(unless I missed something) makes there practically NO need to actually buy anything. Yes, people will probably sell items for $5 for awhile but it would be rare, and since it sounds like Blizzard will control drop rates, I am guessing they will watch the AH and adjust accordingly.

Someone buying the item vs you getting it after playing really is no different. Someone had to get that item to begin with (even if it was a bot). There will be bots, or at least slave labor kids working 24/7 to get items, no way around that. It exists in almost any game where money can be made. My point simply is as I stated above: With no PVP aspect, the value of said items is remarkably lowered to null except to those that feel they have to collect everything (which I'm sure there will be plenty of), but what this means for the normal player is, well nothing because in the grand scheme of the game, it has no affect on them.

Maybe, but there will be PVP (arena style), and there will be players that want the best of the best. IN ANY CASE, it is still cheating, and will still devalue the items.

 

[gothamhunter]

Effect the economy, sure. I'll buy that. But you compared it to duping. It's not even the same ballpark.

Duping- Super rare item worth $25? Well, now I have 1000 of them after pressing a few buttons, and the AH market is pointless.

Botting- Super rare item worth $25? Well after running my bot for 3 days, I didn't get one, but I did get this nice rare shield that is worth $1.30 on the AH. Go me!

Legit farming- Super rare item worth $25? Nope, but I did get some nice rares I can sell for $3-$5 after a nice evening of playing. Too bad those bots are too primitive to handle the harder bosses.

They definitely are on different scales, however dupes almost always disappeared after a while; bot-farmed items do not. And yes, while there was nothing to really prevent/watch that in D2, I'm sure in D3 there would be some sort of hash attached to items that easily make it detectable, and some sort of reimbursement process if duped items ever came up.

 

[Zargon]

Just because it had SP, doesn't mean it was marketed as a SP game. D2 was, as I recall, heavily marketed as a MP game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RvRK5qf6Lc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2ZPL96DGcA&feature=related

MP marketing not found.

it was 2000, not 2010, broadband was *just* starting to become widely available.

 

[gothamhunter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RvRK5qf6Lc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2ZPL96DGcA&feature=related

MP marketing not found.

it was 2000, not 2010, broadband was *just* starting to become widely available.

Read my reply farther up.

 

[Zargon]

They definitely are on different scales, however dupes almost always disappeared after a while; bot-farmed items do not. And yes, while there was nothing to really prevent/watch that in D2, I'm sure in D3 there would be some sort of hash attached to items that easily make it detectable, and some sort of reimbursement process if duped items ever came up.

ha, its blizzard, they will ban your account over it without even asking if they see you have a dupe and take weeks to backtrack and make it right

like when they banned that dude for badmouthing SC2 in the forums from even getting in game

 

[ImpulsE69]

Maybe, but there will be PVP (arena style), and there will be players that want the best of the best. IN ANY CASE, it is still cheating, and will still devalue the items.

From what I read, that arena is separate or the items are not lost if you die, so it's almost null. I forget which, which is why i say there is no real PVP in this game. Correct me if I'm wrong, because that makes a big difference.

 

[gothamhunter]

From what I read, that arena is separate or the items are not lost if you die, so it's almost null. I forget which, which is why i say there is no real PVP in this game. Correct me if I'm wrong, because that makes a big difference.

PvP (short for 'player versus player' combat) has had a storied history in the Diablo series. For Diablo III, we've decided to take it in a new direction to ensure that it's deep, organized, frantic, and fun.

Diablo III's PvP battles are fought in arenas spread out across the world of Sanctuary. These arenas aren't random -- they're all unique, designed with differing amounts of terrain and cover. You participate in PvP using the character of your choice, with access to all of the gear and skills you've accumulated playing the game in single-player or cooperative mode.

You'll learn many of the fundamentals of PvP (like how to avoid attacks or target specific foes) by playing the single-player game, but PvP differs in that it isn't an ideal venue for gathering new weapons and armor. Your rewards for shedding blood in the arena are purer than that: bragging rights, the joy of sending friends old and new to their swift and inglorious deaths, and points that represent how far you've progressed on the path to fame and glory.

When you participate in ranked games (fights that pit two opposing teams of players against each other in 'best of' matches), you'll earn points for advancement based on kills, accomplished objectives, wins, and other factors. Points lead to multiplayer achievements, titles, and more. Our system is focused on encouraging furious combat and multiplayer progression, not stringent competitive rankings, so you'll earn points after every match and Battle.net matchmaking will pit you against similarly skilled opponents.

We're also looking into other PvP game types that exist outside the ranking system, like 1-on-1 duels and mutually chosen team battles (for example, you and your friends could divide into two teams for an arena showdown). We'll have more information on the availability of these game types in the future.

Our aim for Diablo III's PvP is to set you up with dangerous, exciting gladiatorial matches, let you battle it out with other players at your own pace, and allow you to proudly display your rewards. We've added a robust system to remove the obstructions that may have kept you out of the action, so that you can focus on what really matters: answering the age-old question of 'who would win in a fight' -- with a gauntlet to the face.

You still use your PVE items, but there is no "penalty" for losing. However, people will still want to win to prove they're the best.

PVP in a game is null if there's no penalty (ie lost items?)

 

[Grooveriding]

A bot will still devalue the items though.

Say it takes, on average, 12 in-game hours to find item X.

Run bot 24/7 = finding about two per day, which is about 14/week.

Say even running it 12 hours/day, so that it takes a break every 3 or 4 hours so that it doesn't get too suspicious
That's still 1/day, 7/week.

Now you come home after work/school and play Diablo 3, and say you have 4 hours to play, = 1/3 days, which is about 2/week.

Now multiply that by many, many bots.

Undeniably it will of course devalue the items. The point is that the contrast between the impact bots have on the economy versus a dupe hack is astronomical.

That dupe hack can make an unlimited number of those items instantly. The bot can maybe find that item, still subject to RNG, and only one in a much, much larger amount of time.

As for the RNG numbers on items in D3. I hope it is like D2 with extremely rare drops, but with Blizzard's new manifesto on pleasing the masses I have a feeling they won't be nearly as rare. Blizzard's new fan-base will feel 'that is not fair', much like they whine to their parents it's not fair when they can't have the car for the night or they can't go away on a ski trip with friends

Unfortunately Blizzard has decided to cater to their fans endlessly to increase profits, to the detriment of their games. Blizzard and their forums reminds me of the teenager/parent relationship. A bunch of whiners complaining and Blizzard giving them what they want. Since D3 will be largely based around items, it's a safe bet they are going to make those items accessible to everyone who wants them. Somehow they will have put in place a system of 'grinding' that will get you there.

 

[ImpulsE69]

You still use your PVE items, but there is no "penalty" for losing. However, people will still want to win to prove they're the best.

PVP in a game is null if there's no penalty (ie lost items?)

Yes and No. The idea being there is no real supply and demand, because basically, once you get it, you have it forever(unless you sell it).

That being said, if I recall, many of the upper tier items had a shelflife, and if that's the case, then yes, it makes a big difference to the economy.

 

[gothamhunter]

Yes and No. The idea being there is no real supply and demand, because basically, once you get it, you have it forever(unless you sell it).

That being said, if I recall, many of the upper tier items had a shelflife, and if that's the case, then yes, it makes a big difference to the economy.

There will always be supply and demand> more people start playing the game, alts being made, higher tier items being introduced, xpacs, higher level caps, etc...

I don't think any of the items have a limited shelflife.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Honestly, I have no idea what to expect from the game right now. It's been kind of a rollercoaster ride for me and the only way to find out if I will like it is to actually play it.

From the start I was really turned off by the non "gritty" look of the game, then the whole real money auction house feature. I keep thinking "Ok this is Blizzard, they know what they are doing." so I guess we will have to wait and see.

This is almost exactly how I have been feeling about the game, I keep seeing things that on any other game would probably make me pass on the game, and I just keep saying, it's Blizzard I'm sure they found a way to make it fun. I'm really, really hoping that Blizzard doesn't drop a huge steaming turn on my expectations.

Yes and No. The idea being there is no real supply and demand, because basically, once you get it, you have it forever(unless you sell it).

This is why I think that this time we will get regular WoW like endless grind content patches that do little more then add new better equipment, some of which have such small drop rates as to be almost impossible to get. I don't know how well this will work with out new harder content to challenge players with, but who knows if the AH is profitable maybe we will get that too.
If the AH pays for a never ending updates and a constant stream of new content for me and my pals to explore at no extra expense to me, I'll hail it as the best thing to ever happen to gaming.

 

[tedrodai]

Undeniably it will of course devalue the items. The point is that the contrast between the impact bots have on the economy versus a dupe hack is astronomical.

That dupe hack can make an unlimited number of those items instantly. The bot can maybe find that item, still subject to RNG, and only one in a much, much larger amount of time.

The basic idea is correct--that duping as a concept has the potential of generating rare items at a faster rate--but duping isn't always 'press a magic button and get an unlimited supply of items'. It just depends on what type of exploit has been found. You might find a glitch that allows you to buy an item back from a vendor an unlimited amount of times...but you need a stiff supply of gold to buy each back. You might be able to buy 2 copies back somehow instead of the normal 1, but it only works one time right after completing a certain mid/high-level quest that you can only do once per character. You might find a bug that allows your entire inventory to be copied under the right conditions, but those conditions can't be produced on a whim (massiver server lag etc) without giving yourself away. Or yeah, it could be bad like the game allows you to log onto your character twice at the same time (someone told me this was 1 of the first D2 dupe methods found and patched, could be rumor though).

But it's not just the super rare items that influence the economy. Thousands of bots running every week will toss a lot of items from other rarity categories onto the market and decrease their values. Also, since it seems like randomly generated stats are being pushed quite a bit, you have a better chance of getting useful (or godly) stats by collecting lots and lots of drops...which the bots are perfect for. Then the botter sells the item for a sweet price to someone with a dupe method who...yeah . I'm just rambling now.

Good luck to the devs. Managing an economy with bots involved can't be easy.

 

[Zargon]

Read my reply farther up.

ah yeah, sry, missed a page before I had posted

 

[Dumac]

WHO SAYS the entire game revolves around online play...

Blizzard, the creators of the game. s

WHO THE FUCK are you or them to tell me how I can play a game that I buy...

I can't tell you anything, however Blizzard can with the goals of protecting their most important and majority consumers - the online community.

if its an MMO fine.. that's a given it's online only..

This doesn't make any sense. Your arguments could be applied (just as poorly) to an MMO.

"Why can't I play the game I bought the way I want to!"
"I just want to play by myself!"
"Who says I can't!"
"If I use hacks it only affects me!"

 

[PowerYoga]

I'm surprised people are still arguing over this, given all the internet connections they have to make these angry forum posts 24/7.

 

[badb0y]

I don't think many people realize how bad droprates were in Diablo 2. To put things in perspective a Zod rune had a 1/82,000 drop chance. Yes thats 82,000 not 820 or 8,200 but 82,000. Unless you cheated in single player I am willing to bet no one ever got to make a single rune word in single player. Online at least you could trade for high runes like Zod, Ber, Jah etc.

With such ridiculous droprates it wasn't a choice to bot but pretty much a necessity. I hope they revamped their loot dropping system because you can't expect people to play 16 hours a day so they can make a god damned 'Breath of the Dying.' In all my time of playing D2/botting on D2 I only genuinely found like 3 high runes. Every other rune I had to trade for.

Edit: These drop rates are from 1.10 when I used to play D2. Supposedly they made the drop rates better. Now you have a 1/5171 chance of getting a Zod.

 

[xXFaNtAsMaXx]

I really don't think you're getting it.

A bot is still subject to the drop rate rarity of the good items in the game. After say a week of running your bot, maybe, maybe it finds an extremely rare item, one of them.

That versus firing up your dupe hack and instantly making 10, 100 or heck, let's make 1000 of that same item is a completely different animal. Duping is the real threat to this sort of game and what totally devalued everything in D2's economy.

As I said in an earlier post we won't see duping in this game. They squashed in WoW, they'll be able to squash it in D3. There will be bots though, nothing they can do about someone with the knowledge to code a script to play the game for them.

The bot can do so many more runs than you would ever do yourself. After a night of botting, you always had some good items to show for it.

If you had stayed up and done runs yourself all night, you would only have done maybe 2/3 of the runs that a bot does, and have less to show for it.

I don't think many people realize how bad droprates were in Diablo 2. To put things in perspective a Zod rune had a 1/82,000 drop chance. Yes thats 82,000 not 820 or 8,200 but 82,000. Unless you cheated in single player I am willing to bet no one ever got to make a single rune word in single player. Online at least you could trade for high runes like Zod, Ber, Jah etc.

With such ridiculous droprates it wasn't a choice to bot but pretty much a necessity. I hope they revamped their loot dropping system because you can't expect people to play 16 hours a day so they can make a god damned 'Breath of the Dying.' In all my time of playing D2/botting on D2 I only genuinely found like 3 high runes. Every other rune I had to trade for.

Edit: These drop rates are from 1.10 when I used to play D2. Supposedly they made the drop rates better. Now you have a 1/5171 chance of getting a Zod.

This is the way they should be. Do you want every weapon in the game to be indestructible? I know I wouldn't. I'd rather have it be hard to find one so when you finally do, it makes you feel awesome.

 

[Chiropteran]

The bot can do so many more runs than you would ever do yourself. After a night of botting, you always had some good items to show for it.

If you had stayed up and done runs yourself all night, you would only have done maybe 2/3 of the runs that a bot does, and have less to show for it.

I never botted or was even into that scene in diablo 2, so I am legitimately curious about this: could the bots run through the hardest content in the game, or were the bots unable to handle anything serious and merely used to run through easier content that would be trivial for the given character?

I ask this because it is the second case in World of Warcraft- you have bots farming basic non-elite mobs and they make a fair amount of gold, but it's really not a huge economic impact because the real stuff comes from content that the bots can't handle (raids mostly).

I'd suspect if diablo 3 suffers from bots at all it'll be more like world of warcraft- the bots will farm easy content, while the hardest content which requires actual thought and coordination would be impossible for bots to handle. I don't think the economic effect will be too bad. Put into your example, while the bot might be able to farm blood rhinos for 24 hours and make some gold, you could get more real profit just from doing a 2 hour raid in the temple of zog and pick up a few epic raid mats & boe epics.


Also: requiring online play means you can't safely bot 24/7, as any time you bot you risk detection.

 

[xXFaNtAsMaXx]

I never botted or was even into that scene in diablo 2, so I am legitimately curious about this: could the bots run through the hardest content in the game, or were the bots unable to handle anything serious and merely used to run through easier content that would be trivial for the given character?

I ask this because it is the second case in World of Warcraft- you have bots farming basic non-elite mobs and they make a fair amount of gold, but it's really not a huge economic impact because the real stuff comes from content that the bots can't handle (raids mostly).

I'd suspect if diablo 3 suffers from bots at all it'll be more like world of warcraft- the bots will farm easy content, while the hardest content which requires actual thought and coordination would be impossible for bots to handle. I don't think the economic effect will be too bad. Put into your example, while the bot might be able to farm blood rhinos for 24 hours and make some gold, you could get more real profit just from doing a 2 hour raid in the temple of zog and pick up a few epic raid mats & boe epics.


Also: requiring online play means you can't safely bot 24/7, as any time you bot you risk detection.

A bot can easily handle whatever you would be able to handle for the most part. D2 bots have come a long way. You only need one program to do runs for any monster in the game. The program uses scripts that are made by users to tell it what to do and which monsters you want to do runs on.

Botting only made sense to use online before, so I don't see the difference. They used random timers to make the bot seem more human, and it works pretty well. It's just a program that runs outside of D2 and controls it as if there were a human there. I think that there will eventually be bots for D3 also, and unless Blizzard is going to be monitoring all of the programs that we have running while we play, they'll have just as hard of a time stopping them in D3 as they did in the past.

:EDIT: Perhaps they'll make it so that every time you go to a WP or though a major door, you have to enter some passcode or something.. lol