Did Bush win?

[imhotepmp]

Originally posted by: Abraxas
Bush won, but before I will say it was fair and square, I would like to see the voting machines in Florida nad Ohio checked. When the CEO of the company, Diebold, that manufactured machines in both those states IIRC pledges to give Ohio to Bush, I have to wonder just how far he went.

Everyone seems to be ignoring this and I absolutely agree with you. have you noticed that no one has refuted issue, and the response has been nothing but cynical unintelligent responses?

 

[yankeesfan]

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

Originally posted by: Abraxas
Bush won, but before I will say it was fair and square, I would like to see the voting machines in Florida nad Ohio checked. When the CEO of the company, Diebold, that manufactured machines in both those states IIRC pledges to give Ohio to Bush, I have to wonder just how far he went.

Everyone seems to be ignoring this and I absolutely agree with you. have you noticed that no one has refuted issue, and the response has been nothing but cynical unintelligent responses?

If Kerry believed that he could influence the outcome by presenting this information, he would have. He would not have conceded. Therefore, I am led to belieive that this is a conspiracy theory. Why would he have not brought this to court?

 

[drpootums]

Originally posted by: daclayman

Originally posted by: Babbles
Again, how could one possibly think that he did not win fair and square?

Maybe, cuz he didn't win the 1st time fair and square? Duh.

Bush = teh stoopid. Challenge yourself; finish 3rd grade.

I've heard this before, but i've heard no proof that he didnt win the first one fair and square.

I've also heard that after Bush was elected they did another recount in Florida and Gore won by 100,000 votes. Pure BS. I suppose they didnt catch that in the first 4 recounts...

 

[imhotepmp]

Originally posted by: drpootums

Originally posted by: imhotepmp
Are you kidding. This election was so corrupt that I feel like im in a third world country.

A little something that makes you say hmm....

The CEO of Diebold, the supplier of 'electronic' voting systems heavily supported the republican party. In fact he promised to 'deliver' OHIO. Guess what voting machines where used in OHIO. These same machines were also used in Florida and jeb bush, bush's brother is gov of florida and he promised to deliver florida. I wonder why hes so confident? Maybe because he could easily stack the votes, and change people votes without any trace.



Furthermore, these electronic machines have dont give a receipt of your vote, and are very vulnerable to manipulation.
http://tampaindymedia.org/bin/...ire/2004/Nov/80468.dat



On CNN, a women voted for kerry and when the vote came up for review the machine recorded the vote for bush. Hmmm. Luckily this women decided to call a lawyer and have the machine removed. luckly this was brought to someones attention, but who knows how many times this could have happened and wasnt reported.


All across the country there was an active movement by the GOP to dismiss and intimidate as many voters as possible, especially native americans and minorities.

I could go on, but that should be enough to make you think.

im extrmemely disappointed by the amount of complacency by the people.

This is one sad time.

Ya, it's also a sad time when liberals go and slash tires on GOP vehicals so they cant transport voters...

CNN=Clinton News Network

You have morons on both sides of the river. For every incident that some moronic liberal/democrat does, im sure there are equal number done by conservatives/republican/etc. So your point is both irrelevant and and misguided. btw i dont like the trend today of giving people labels like liberal/conservative. People have their own uniques set of beliefs/values and labeling is simple a propaganda tactic useful for manipulating the sheep masses.

I've heard this before, but i've heard no proof that he didnt win the first one fair and square.

right, is that why the court decided who was president? What about the thousands of disenfranchised black voters in florida? gimme a fvcking break, if you think bush won fair and square in 2000 you need to do a little more reading and research. And people like you are why are civil liberties are slowly being erased by bush and his cohorts.

Imouthes

 

[BunLengthHotDog]

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

Originally posted by: Abraxas
Bush won, but before I will say it was fair and square, I would like to see the voting machines in Florida nad Ohio checked. When the CEO of the company, Diebold, that manufactured machines in both those states IIRC pledges to give Ohio to Bush, I have to wonder just how far he went.

Everyone seems to be ignoring this and I absolutely agree with you. have you noticed that no one has refuted issue, and the response has been nothing but cynical unintelligent responses?

Come on...do you think the Kerry camp hasn't heard this trumped up charge? If there was ANY merit to this Kerry would be pushing for an investigation. If the vote tallies are good enough for your candidate, shouldn't it be good enough for you?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: wiin
Bush won the election fair and square. He won even though the media tried so hard to prevent it
Bias Beyond the Pale

Are you aware that the Pennsylvania race was closer (Kerry gets 51.08%) than the Ohio race (Bush gets 51.2%) or Nevada race (Bush gets 51.4%)? Think about this fact. Did the networks have any problem calling Pennsylvania for Kerry? None whatsoever. I believe one network had Pennsylvania in the Kerry column within an hour of the polls closing. And when one considers that absentee ballots always break in the direction of conservatives, the Pennsylvania race will further tighten while the Ohio race widens.

Are you aware that New Hampshire has 99% of the vote in with 50.7245% for Kerry to 49.2755% for Bush and has been called for Kerry?

Are you aware that Wisconsin has 99% of the vote in with 50.2255% for Kerry to 49.7745% for Bush and has been called for Kerry?


Absentee ballots would only make these races tighter.

Are you aware that Iowa has 99% of the vote in with 50.5325% for Bush to 49.4675% for Kerry and has NOT been called for Bush?

Are you aware that New Mexico has 99% of the vote in with 50.8816% for Bush to 49.1184% for Kerry and has NOT been called for Bush?

Are you aware that Nevada has 99% of the vote in with 51.3536% for Bush to 48.6464% for Kerry and has NOT been called for Bush (except for one network)?

Absentee ballots would only make these races wider.

How is the media trying to prevent anything? Even if they had bias (which I'm not admitting), even if they were refusing the see reality, how is that hurting Bush. All of that was done after the polls were closed. Do you think the government was going to watch CNN and say, "Well, they are calling Kerry states early, guess we'll give it to him"? Repeat after me, what happens after the election cannot prevent or help any results unless votes are actually changed.

Were any of the states that were actually called for Kerry wrong? Do you know how states are called? Hasn't your beloved Fox News STILL not called Iowa? Maybe there is a reason.

This bolding crap has got to stop, it doesn't help your point and is annoying and hell.

 

[imhotepmp]

Originally posted by: BunLengthHotDog

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

Originally posted by: Abraxas
Bush won, but before I will say it was fair and square, I would like to see the voting machines in Florida nad Ohio checked. When the CEO of the company, Diebold, that manufactured machines in both those states IIRC pledges to give Ohio to Bush, I have to wonder just how far he went.

Everyone seems to be ignoring this and I absolutely agree with you. have you noticed that no one has refuted issue, and the response has been nothing but cynical unintelligent responses?

Come on...do you think the Kerry camp hasn't heard this trumped up charge? If there was ANY merit to this Kerry would be pushing for an investigation. If the vote tallies are good enough for your candidate, shouldn't it be good enough for you?

Probably for the same reason why last night john edwards comes out and declares "down to the last vote" and the next morning kerry concedes defeat with over 200,000 provisional votes in OHIO yet to be counted for at least another 11 days.

 

[drpootums]

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

Originally posted by: drpootums

Originally posted by: imhotepmp
Are you kidding. This election was so corrupt that I feel like im in a third world country.

A little something that makes you say hmm....

The CEO of Diebold, the supplier of 'electronic' voting systems heavily supported the republican party. In fact he promised to 'deliver' OHIO. Guess what voting machines where used in OHIO. These same machines were also used in Florida and jeb bush, bush's brother is gov of florida and he promised to deliver florida. I wonder why hes so confident? Maybe because he could easily stack the votes, and change people votes without any trace.



Furthermore, these electronic machines have dont give a receipt of your vote, and are very vulnerable to manipulation.
http://tampaindymedia.org/bin/...ire/2004/Nov/80468.dat



On CNN, a women voted for kerry and when the vote came up for review the machine recorded the vote for bush. Hmmm. Luckily this women decided to call a lawyer and have the machine removed. luckly this was brought to someones attention, but who knows how many times this could have happened and wasnt reported.


All across the country there was an active movement by the GOP to dismiss and intimidate as many voters as possible, especially native americans and minorities.

I could go on, but that should be enough to make you think.

im extrmemely disappointed by the amount of complacency by the people.

This is one sad time.

Ya, it's also a sad time when liberals go and slash tires on GOP vehicals so they cant transport voters...

CNN=Clinton News Network

You have morons on both sides of the river. For every incident that some moronic liberal/democrat does, im sure there are equal number done by conservatives/republican/etc. So your point is both irrelevant and and misguided. btw i dont like the trend today of giving people labels like liberal/conservative. People have their own uniques set of beliefs/values and labeling is simple a propaganda tactic useful for manipulating the sheep masses.

I've heard this before, but i've heard no proof that he didnt win the first one fair and square.

right, is that why the court decided who was president? What about the thousands of disenfranchised black voters in florida? gimme a fvcking break, if you think bush won fair and square in 2000 you need to do a little more reading and research. And people like you are why are civil liberties are slowly being erased by bush and his cohorts.

Imouthes

Funny thing, you dont see many news stories about conservatives egging political headquarters, the tire slashing, and dumping anti-democrat protestors into rivers (it did happen). I just think that conservatives have more morals.

And for the election, why dont you give me a break. Are u in the boat with other libs who say that minority votes weren't counted on the last election?...dont be ignorant! I guess those votes that didnt count didnt come up during those 3 months and 4 recounts. They had plenty of time to raise those law suits, but none of them went through! And even if bush did steal the election (or as Al Gore said it "*scream* George W. Bush betrayed our country *even girlier scream*) those 4 years are over, and i dont have to worry about it any more for another 4...

 

[imhotepmp]

Originally posted by: drpootums

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

Originally posted by: drpootums

Originally posted by: imhotepmp
Are you kidding. This election was so corrupt that I feel like im in a third world country.

A little something that makes you say hmm....

The CEO of Diebold, the supplier of 'electronic' voting systems heavily supported the republican party. In fact he promised to 'deliver' OHIO. Guess what voting machines where used in OHIO. These same machines were also used in Florida and jeb bush, bush's brother is gov of florida and he promised to deliver florida. I wonder why hes so confident? Maybe because he could easily stack the votes, and change people votes without any trace.



Furthermore, these electronic machines have dont give a receipt of your vote, and are very vulnerable to manipulation.
http://tampaindymedia.org/bin/...ire/2004/Nov/80468.dat



On CNN, a women voted for kerry and when the vote came up for review the machine recorded the vote for bush. Hmmm. Luckily this women decided to call a lawyer and have the machine removed. luckly this was brought to someones attention, but who knows how many times this could have happened and wasnt reported.


All across the country there was an active movement by the GOP to dismiss and intimidate as many voters as possible, especially native americans and minorities.

I could go on, but that should be enough to make you think.

im extrmemely disappointed by the amount of complacency by the people.

This is one sad time.

Ya, it's also a sad time when liberals go and slash tires on GOP vehicals so they cant transport voters...

CNN=Clinton News Network

You have morons on both sides of the river. For every incident that some moronic liberal/democrat does, im sure there are equal number done by conservatives/republican/etc. So your point is both irrelevant and and misguided. btw i dont like the trend today of giving people labels like liberal/conservative. People have their own uniques set of beliefs/values and labeling is simple a propaganda tactic useful for manipulating the sheep masses.

I've heard this before, but i've heard no proof that he didnt win the first one fair and square.

right, is that why the court decided who was president? What about the thousands of disenfranchised black voters in florida? gimme a fvcking break, if you think bush won fair and square in 2000 you need to do a little more reading and research. And people like you are why are civil liberties are slowly being erased by bush and his cohorts.

Imouthes

Funny thing, you dont see many news stories about conservatives egging political headquarters, the tire slashing, and dumping anti-democrat protestors into rivers (it did happen). I just think that conservatives have more morals.

And for the election, why dont you give me a break. Are u in the boat with other libs who say that minority votes weren't counted on the last election?...dont be ignorant! I guess those votes that didnt count didnt come up during those 3 months and 4 recounts. They had plenty of time to raise those law suits, but none of them went through! And even if bush did steal the election (or as Al Gore said it "*scream* George W. Bush betrayed our country *even girlier scream*) those 4 years are over, and i dont have to worry about it any more for another 4...

First of all, dont group as a liberal. Second, so your telling me that the dozens of blacks who went up in front of the US senate and tried to get heard is propaganda. Gimme a break! Thats a fact, and the fact is bush stole the 2000 election.

But I dont know why Im arguing with you since its obvious that you support a man who under false pretenses, and I would even say outright LIED, invaded a country. Now, were stuck over there with US soldiers and innocent iraqis dying on daily basis. Its total BS. I wonder if youll be singing the same song if you or someone you care about gets sent over there to fight someone else's war. get a clue.

Imouthes

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

I voted for George Bush.
I am not a redneck.
I do not spend my days watching cars race around a track, drinking cheap beer and slapping my woman on the ass.
I am not a bible thumper. In fact, I am an atheist.
I am not a homophobe.
I am educated beyond the fifth grade. In fact, I am college educated.
I am not stupid. Not by any stretch of facts.
I do not bomb abortion clinics.

 

[imhotepmp]

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight
I voted for George Bush.
I am not a redneck.
I do not spend my days watching cars race around a track, drinking cheap beer and slapping my woman on the ass.
I am not a bible thumper. In fact, I am an atheist.
I am not a homophobe.
I am educated beyond the fifth grade. In fact, I am college educated.
I am not stupid. Not by any stretch of facts.
I do not bomb abortion clinics.

Do you support the war in Iraq?
Do you support the draft that will probably pass in the next few years?
Do you believe that the government has a RIGHT to interfere in people's personal lives?(see ban against gay marriages?)
Do you believe that the president represents an ENTIRE NATION and all the beliefs thereof and therefore any personal beliefs that the president has should be put aside (see bush against homosexual marriage, against abortion, against stem cell research, etc)

Do you believe that any country has the right to invade a sovereign nation, without the support of nearly the ENTIRE WORLD. What happened when Iraq invaded kuwait for probably the same reasons Bush invaded Iraq.

Do you believe that your personal liberties should be taken away under the guise of protection against terrorism?(see Patriot Act)

i could go on, but I think you get the point.

Imouthes

 

[Class1]

Bush won the United States lost, same could be said if Kerry won. There will not be a united country either way.

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight
I voted for George Bush.
I am not a redneck.
I do not spend my days watching cars race around a track, drinking cheap beer and slapping my woman on the ass.
I am not a bible thumper. In fact, I am an atheist.
I am not a homophobe.
I am educated beyond the fifth grade. In fact, I am college educated.
I am not stupid. Not by any stretch of facts.
I do not bomb abortion clinics.

Do you support the war in Iraq?
Do you support the draft that will probably pass in the next few years?
Do you believe that the government has a RIGHT to interfere in people's personal lives?(see ban against gay marriages?)
Do you believe that the president represents an ENTIRE NATION and all the beliefs thereof and therefore any personal beliefs that the president has should be put aside (see bush against homosexual marriage, against abortion, against stem cell research, etc)

Do you believe that any country has the right to invade a sovereign nation, without the support of nearly the ENTIRE WORLD. What happened when Iraq invaded kuwait for probably the same reasons Bush invaded Iraq.

Do you believe that your personal liberties should be taken away under the guise of protection against terrorism?(see Patriot Act)

i could go on, but I think you get the point.

Imouthes

Do you support the war in Iraq? yes
Draft? More fear mongering from the left.

Do you believe that the government has a RIGHT to interfere in people's personal lives?
the left is even more guilty of this.

Do you believe that the president represents an ENTIRE NATION and all the beliefs thereof and therefore any personal beliefs that the president has should be put aside (see bush against homosexual marriage, against abortion, against stem cell research, etc)

No one ever says he did. BTW Bush does not oppose stem cell research. He opposed federal funding for embryonic stem cell research, not adult stem research which shows more promise anyway. Federal funding for adult stem research has increased under bush.



Do you believe that any country has the right to invade a sovereign nation, without the support of nearly the ENTIRE WORLD. What happened when Iraq invaded kuwait for probably the same reasons Bush invaded Iraq.

Yes.

and so on.....

 

[BunLengthHotDog]

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight

Do you support the war in Iraq?
Do you support the draft that will probably pass in the next few years?
Do you believe that the government has a RIGHT to interfere in people's personal lives?(see ban against gay marriages?)
Do you believe that the president represents an ENTIRE NATION and all the beliefs thereof and therefore any personal beliefs that the president has should be put aside (see bush against homosexual marriage, against abortion, against stem cell research, etc)

Do you believe that any country has the right to invade a sovereign nation, without the support of nearly the ENTIRE WORLD. What happened when Iraq invaded kuwait for probably the same reasons Bush invaded Iraq.

Do you believe that your personal liberties should be taken away under the guise of protection against terrorism?(see Patriot Act)

i could go on, but I think you get the point.

Imouthes

I'll take a swing at this :

Do you support the war in Iraq?

Now that we are there, I give 100% of my support to the troops that are over there fighting. I do disagree with the timing however...a 2 front war was not a good idea.

Do you support the draft that will probably pass in the next few years?

Give me a break, this is laughable at best.

Do you believe that the government has a RIGHT to interfere in people's personal lives?

I think there should be as little gov't as possible, but you must realise that being in your shoes (a Dem obviously)...you are FOR big Gov't (National Healthcare system, redistribution of wealth etc) or do you not understand that this is the case?

Do you believe that the president represents an ENTIRE NATION and all the beliefs thereof and therefore any personal beliefs that the president has should be put aside

Are you proposing we install a puppet in the oval office? I prefer a president who stands for SOMETHING instead of pointing fingers with no real message of their own.

Do you believe that your personal liberties should be taken away under the guise of protection against terrorism?

Has this happened to you? I haven't encountered anything of the sort.

 

[imhotepmp]

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight
I voted for George Bush.
I am not a redneck.
I do not spend my days watching cars race around a track, drinking cheap beer and slapping my woman on the ass.
I am not a bible thumper. In fact, I am an atheist.
I am not a homophobe.
I am educated beyond the fifth grade. In fact, I am college educated.
I am not stupid. Not by any stretch of facts.
I do not bomb abortion clinics.

Do you support the war in Iraq?
Do you support the draft that will probably pass in the next few years?
Do you believe that the government has a RIGHT to interfere in people's personal lives?(see ban against gay marriages?)
Do you believe that the president represents an ENTIRE NATION and all the beliefs thereof and therefore any personal beliefs that the president has should be put aside (see bush against homosexual marriage, against abortion, against stem cell research, etc)

Do you believe that any country has the right to invade a sovereign nation, without the support of nearly the ENTIRE WORLD. What happened when Iraq invaded kuwait for probably the same reasons Bush invaded Iraq.

Do you believe that your personal liberties should be taken away under the guise of protection against terrorism?(see Patriot Act)

i could go on, but I think you get the point.

Imouthes

Do you support the war in Iraq? yes
Draft? More fear mongering from the left.

Do you believe that the government has a RIGHT to interfere in people's personal lives?
the left is even more guilty of this.

Do you believe that the president represents an ENTIRE NATION and all the beliefs thereof and therefore any personal beliefs that the president has should be put aside (see bush against homosexual marriage, against abortion, against stem cell research, etc)

No one ever says he did. BTW Bush does not oppose stem cell research. He opposed federal funding for embryonic stem cell research, not adult stem research which shows more promise anyway. Federal funding for adult stem research has increased under bush.



Do you believe that any country has the right to invade a sovereign nation, without the support of nearly the ENTIRE WORLD. What happened when Iraq invaded kuwait for probably the same reasons Bush invaded Iraq.

Yes.

and so on.....

-Draft a scare tactic? is that why its still in the house awaiting to be moved forward?Here

-Imnot asking you what 'liberals' think, Im asking how do you feel in regards to bush's actions?

-Adult stem cell research is much more difficult to make progress in since its very DIFFICULT to obtain ADULt stem cells. There are only a few sources of stem cells in adults that are useful, even then those cells are programmed to differentiate into specific cells.
Embroyonic would be a better route in making progress in the research areas of stem cells since they ahve not ben programmed? Does he not know this, or is he just ignoring his science advisors? Furthermore, Only those fetuses that are going to be discarded woudl be used? Whats the problem with this? his opinion regarding this matter is blinded by his supposed religious beliefs. Again, an important avenue of research(taht could potentially benefit alot of people) is being discarded because of the religious beliefs of a few.

And please explain to me why the war with Iraqq is acceptable? Where's the WMD he promised? Inaccurate intelligence my a$$.

 

[Emveach]

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

Originally posted by: Abraxas
Bush won, but before I will say it was fair and square, I would like to see the voting machines in Florida nad Ohio checked. When the CEO of the company, Diebold, that manufactured machines in both those states IIRC pledges to give Ohio to Bush, I have to wonder just how far he went.

Everyone seems to be ignoring this and I absolutely agree with you. have you noticed that no one has refuted issue, and the response has been nothing but cynical unintelligent responses?

Just so you know, not every county in Ohio uses electronic voting. I live in Fairfield county, about 20 miles away from Columbus, and the voting machine I used was a punch card system. No lever, just the little hand held puncher that you poked through the holes. Just had to remember to check for chads.

 

[ciba]

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

-Draft a scare tactic? is that why its still in the house awaiting to be moved forward?Here

You're citing two bills sponsored by democrats as evidence that bush wants to reinstate the draft? Are you kidding!?

Is Bush using orbital mind control lasers to force Jim "wiretap" McDermott to support this legislation?

 

[imhotepmp]

Originally posted by: ciba

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

-Draft a scare tactic? is that why its still in the house awaiting to be moved forward?Here

You're citing two bills sponsored by democrats as evidence that bush wants to reinstate the draft? Are you kidding!?

Is Bush using orbital mind control lasers to force Jim "wiretap" McDermott to support this legislation?

The original intention of the bill was to have people(in particular politicians) to think twice about going to war, since anyone, including the sons and daughters of politicians could be drafted. However, with those considerations aside the fact of the matter is the president has final say so in the passing of this bill and with most of the reserves mobilized there is a great need for more troops in Iraq. So what do you think hes gonna do when this bill reaches his desk? That was the point I was trying to make.

Imouthes

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
WHoever voted no he stole it has no sense of patriotism. They have no morals. I dont mean to sound like im trolling but honestly people both candidates said to put your problems behind you. Why do people have to be so cold hearted and hard headed?

-Kevin

I said Fair and Square, but it's hard to maintain my acceptance and maturity level when Felix and others are prancing around like their team won the Super Bowl. It's not sports, fellas, sore losers and just as annoying and non-helpful as sore winners in politics.

You know the democrats would be doing the same damn thing.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: imhotepmp
Do you believe that any country has the right to invade a sovereign nation, without the support of nearly the ENTIRE WORLD. What happened when Iraq invaded kuwait for probably the same reasons Bush invaded Iraq.

HOLY CRAP WHO ARE YOU?! Um, Saddam was looking to expand his borders and gain power and money.

With that war in Iraq we are losing money and American lives and you are trying to convince others that we are turning into an imperialistic nation? Our economy should be booming according to you.

Do you support the draft that will probably pass in the next few years?

Again you show your ignorance regarding military situations. A trained and dedicated force is exponentially more effective than a drafted one. We will not have a drafted army, or at least you won't have to worry about it because if we are ever forced into having one we'll all probably end up dead real soon anyways.

Do you believe that the government has a RIGHT to interfere in people's personal lives?(see ban against gay marriages?)

Depends, when things like marriage have ties to the government such as with taxes, then it is up to the people to define marriage. Don't forget "we the people" govern ourselves. There is a difference between a president and a dictator.

Do you believe that the president represents an ENTIRE NATION and all the beliefs thereof and therefore any personal beliefs that the president has should be put aside (see bush against homosexual marriage, against abortion, against stem cell research, etc)

We elect the president to represent us, the qualified majority. If he represents us then there's a good chance he reprents our beliefs through his own. Now he's against gay marriage but not unions, he's not die hard against abortion (where in select cases he would consider abortion an option), and he actually supports stem cell research - he just doesn't support the creation and destruction of embryos just for the purpose of research.

Do you believe that your personal liberties should be taken away under the guise of protection against terrorism?(see Patriot Act)

Considering it is extremely rare the patriot act has adversely affected a large number of innocent citizens and has actually helped to foil aditional terrorist attacks on our nation, I think its working out just fine otherwise we'd revise it if not get rid of it. IE its doing far more good than harm

 

[imhotepmp]

HOLY CRAP WHO ARE YOU?! Um, Saddam was looking to expand his borders and gain power and money.With that war in Iraq we are losing money and American lives and you are trying to convince others that we are turning into an imperialistic nation? Our economy should be booming according to you.

Yes we the american PEOPLE are losing money and lives? But are you telling me that not a single american company has gained from the war? one word, OIL. Hmm, I wonder whose a friend of the oil companies? Hmmm.
Saddam was looking to gain power and expand his borders and Bush was looking to gain OIL. Whats the most valuable resource in todays world. OIL. Where is most of the world's OIL deposits? The middle east. Hmm.

Again you show your ignorance regarding military situations. A trained and dedicated force is exponentially more effective than a drafted one. We will not have a drafted army, or at least you won't have to worry about it because if we are ever forced into having one we'll all probably end up dead real soon anyways.

I dont show my ignorance of anything. A well trained force is not necessary to act as guards and support troops. Which is essentially what most of the troops in Iraq are doing. Only special forces and marines are actually performing the attacks we see. In fact, in any army you have way more support and non-combat troops than troops that are highly trained for attacking and destroying an enemy.
and yes for that exact reason, we will be the first ones to go.

Depends, when things like marriage have ties to the government such as with taxes, then it is up to the people to define marriage. Don't forget "we the people" govern ourselves. There is a difference between a president and a dictator.

yes, however several things I should point out:
- if you want to define the legal terms of marriage thats ok, but one should be told WHO they can marry. Thats equilavent to saying that interracial dating should be outlawed is it not?
- Represent the majority is one thing, but oppressing the minority is another. Which is exactly what these laws do.

Considering it is extremely rare the patriot act has adversely affected a large number of innocent citizens and has actually helped to foil aditional terrorist attacks on our nation, I think its working out just fine otherwise we'd revise it if not get rid of it. IE its doing far more good than harm

Really, detaining thousands of arab americans is not adversely affecting a large number of innocent citizens? Regardless no law is just if it stomps on the rights of just ONE citizen. The end does not justify the means. Period.

Imouthes

 

[randym431]

Ok, ok. Lets do a simple math. We're in Iraq. Suddenly, North Koera invades South Korea (and with nukes too). So, you "don't" think there will be a draft??? Really!
Who's going to fight this if N Korea goes berserk? The Bush twins??? Jeb's kids? How about Cheney's daughter?
Count on it folks, things WILL get really really bad, and there WILL be a draft.

Ps. Bush isnt near smart enough (or his people) to avoid it!

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: randym431
Ok, ok. Lets do a simple math. We're in Iraq. Suddenly, North Koera invades South Korea (and with nukes too). So, you "don't" think there will be a draft??? Really!
Who's going to fight this if N Korea goes berserk? The Bush twins??? Jeb's kids? How about Cheney's daughter?
Count on it folks, things WILL get really really bad, and there WILL be a draft.

Ps. Bush isnt near smart enough (or his people) to avoid it!

Waaaaiit..are you telling me that if NK invaded SK, the mighty UN wouldn't do anytthing about it? I would hope not...:roll:

Edit: I hope you understand that a large scale ground war there would be insane. The deaths there would make the 1000+ look insignificant.

 

[cmdavid]

so 25% of ATPN does not think that he won the election fair and square?
who are you people and how did he not win it fair and square?

 

[ciba]

Originally posted by: imhotepmp
The original intention of the bill was to have people(in particular politicians) to think twice about going to war, since anyone, including the sons and daughters of politicians could be drafted. However, with those considerations aside the fact of the matter is the president has final say so in the passing of this bill and with most of the reserves mobilized there is a great need for more troops in Iraq. So what do you think hes gonna do when this bill reaches his desk? That was the point I was trying to make.

Imouthes

So you agree that it was fearmongering by the left?

First, the bill won't make it to Bush's desk. The only support it has is from democrats. This makes me think it was merely a politcial ploy so that college-aged kids say "OMG BUSH IS GOING TO REINSTATE THE DRAFT!!!11!111ONEONEONE"