Did I fubar my brakes

[dabuddha]

1997 Dodge grand caravan

Just changed one of the front brakes (discs) and when I went to turn the van around so I could jack up the other side, I noticed a wooshing noise when I press down on the brake pedal in the van. Also the pedal seems to be going all the way down. Any ideas?

EDIT (01/31/2013):

So it looks like I have another issue with my brakes. After bleeding them last time, it was good to go but the brake pedal feels a lot loser the last few days than it did the first time I had the problem. Then when I was driving the van in my court, I came to about 20-30 mpg and slammed on the brakes. The pedal went almost all the way to the floor and I could feel it pumping (ABS) but it felt alot different. It felt like the pedal was "thudding" against the floor board and I could hear a thumping (louder than my ABS brakes on my other cars). The stopping distance was greater than normal too.

 

[JCH13]

1997 Dodge grand caravan

Just changed one of the front brakes (discs) and when I went to turn the van around so I could jack up the other side, I noticed a wooshing noise when I press down on the brake pedal in the van. Also the pedal seems to be going all the way down. Any ideas?

Do you need to bleed to brakes? Did you tighten up every fitting?

 

[dabuddha]

Everythings tightened. Didn't do any bleeding though. I suppose I should look up how to do that lol

 

[dabuddha]

Ok that looks a lot more complicated than it sounds!

 

[xSkyDrAx]

Need to bleed the brakes. Have fun lol

 

[SyndromeOCZ]

How many times did you press the pedal? Sometimes with those vans if you push the cylinder all the way in then you have to press the pedal a few times for it to align correctly with the rotor.

 

[dabuddha]

I put the wheel back on and drove around the court. Tried braking hard from 20 mph and everything seemed ok though the brake pedal still feels a lil "spongy" meaning I have to push it in further than I used to (though before I changed my brakes, they used to feel "hard" where it'd have only a slight give). If my front brakes were not working at all, It'd take me a lot further to stop, correct?

 

[twinrider1]

How many times did you press the pedal? Sometimes with those vans if you push the cylinder all the way in then you have to press the pedal a few times for it to align correctly with the rotor.

This.......but he means piston, not cylinder.

 

[JCH13]

Sounds like you definitely need to bleed your brakes.

 

[dabuddha]

This.......but he means piston, not cylinder.

Only had to c clamp it one time

 

[dabuddha]

How dangerous is it to drive the van a couple of days before bleeding it? I wont be able to look at it till thurs earliest.

 

[someone16]

Get it fixed ASAP man...how can you drive with messed up brakes.

 

[dabuddha]

After looking at a couple of you tube videos, it doesn't look as daunting. Questions though.

1) all 4 brakes need to be bleed. Even if the rear are drums?

2) do I have to remove the tire or can I get to the valve if I drive my car up ramps? Or should I not use ramps at all?

TIA! And thanks for bearing with me, I'm not a car guy at all

 

[JCH13]

After looking at a couple of you tube videos, it doesn't look as daunting. Questions though.

1) all 4 brakes need to be bleed. Even if the rear are drums?

2) do I have to remove the tire or can I get to the valve if I drive my car up ramps? Or should I not use ramps at all?

TIA! And thanks for bearing with me, I'm not a car guy at all

I've always done bleeding with the car up on jack stands and the wheels off. Made life easier.

Drums need to be bled too, just like calipers.

 

[dabuddha]

So 4 jackstands. Guess I'll go buy another pair (only bought 2 last time from harbor freight) I might give it a shot this coming Wednesday. If I can't find a mechanic to do it cheaply for me that is. Got a 50 person bbq I've got to cook/prepare for this coming Saturday so it blows that this came up

 

[Squisher]

I don't know why you'd need to bleed your brakes.

You pushed the piston all the way back and pushing on the brake pedal required more than one pump to get the pads back to where they were contacting the rotor. As for spongy, I'd guess you'll either need to wait a couple hundred miles for the pads to seat or you didn't sufficiently clean the pads and rotors before assembly.

 

[dabuddha]

Well even now it's the brake pedal is going all the way to the floor where as before, it wasn't. That's one thing I noticed different between before and after. I did use the spray can ({some brake cleaning fluid) on the rotors before popping in the new pads. I figured it can't hurt to bleed the brakes but that was what my friend was telling me (that he found it odd that i'd need to bleed the brakes after changing the pads)

For what it's worth, the old pads were virtually gone.

 

[SyndromeOCZ]

I've done brake pads and rotors many times, never had to bleed them. On my brother's 96 dodge caravan he wore the pads down until it was metal on metal. Still didn't have to bleed them.

 

[C1]

Bleeding is unnecessary. Probably what you are sensing is the new pads not fully mated to the rotors and/or that you have used a softer pad than the ones removed.

The main thing with doing your own brakes is to ensure that the caliper piston does not bind. (This is a very very common issue with disk brakes and is the result of dirt accumulating behind the piston over time. When the piston is retracted to make room for the new pads, it binds in the caliper bore because of the dirt.)

After doing your brake job, drive around (eg, on a vacant school parking lot) without applying the brakes. After awhile, stop the vehicle, get out and feel the wheel hub [ie, hub cap off]. If it is hot or even very warm, you will need to rebuild the calipers.

 

[5150MyU]

No leaks? Then you should not need to bleed (If you have leaks then they need to be fixed first).

Your new pads may not be seated yet if you have only driven it a few miles.

Usually scuff up new pads with some sand paper to take out the grinding marks-they seat rather fast, be it new rotors or old.

I do scuff up old rotors when installing new pads -nothing fancy though.

 

[Meghan54]

The only thing I can think of what happened is this scenario:

Your pads were worn completely out and your brake fluid level in its reservoir was low, so you sucked some air into the lines. And while you did seat the pistons completely when you used your C-clamp, you still had some air bubbles in the line and reservoir, which were reintroduced when you hit the brake pedal to "seat" the new pads.

Outside that, just changing pads without opening the brake system shouldn't require you to bleed your brakes....the system is still closed. Just pushing the caliper's piston(s) in completely shouldn't do anything other than make your reservoir get way full as you displace the brake fluid from the caliper back into the reservoir.

 

[BUTCH1]

Bleeding is unnecessary. Probably what you are sensing is the new pads not fully mated to the rotors and/or that you have used a softer pad than the ones removed.

The main thing with doing your own brakes is to ensure that the caliper piston does not bind. (This is a very very common issue with disk brakes and is the result of dirt accumulating behind the piston over time. When the piston is retracted to make room for the new pads, it binds in the caliper bore because of the dirt.)

After doing your brake job, drive around (eg, on a vacant school parking lot) without applying the brakes. After awhile, stop the vehicle, get out and feel the wheel hub [ie, hub cap off]. If it is hot or even very warm, you will need to rebuild the calipers.

It might not be necessary but if it's been in there for 10 years it might be a very good idea to do so, crappy, contaminated fluid is what causes calipers to fail and leak and water intrusion lowers the boiling point of the fluid which can have a negative effect on the whole system..

 

[JCH13]

The only thing I can think of what happened is this scenario:

Your pads were worn completely out and your brake fluid level in its reservoir was low, so you sucked some air into the lines. And while you did seat the pistons completely when you used your C-clamp, you still had some air bubbles in the line and reservoir, which were reintroduced when you hit the brake pedal to "seat" the new pads.

Outside that, just changing pads without opening the brake system shouldn't require you to bleed your brakes....the system is still closed. Just pushing the caliper's piston(s) in completely shouldn't do anything other than make your reservoir get way full as you displace the brake fluid from the caliper back into the reservoir.

I think something like this is possible.

However, it's also possible that you ruined your brake master cylinder when you pumped it to the floor. During normal operation the master only works in a very small part of the master cylinder's stroke, crap builds up in the unused portion. When you put the brakes to the floor you pushed the plunger through all of this old crap and could have damaged the seal. This is how I wrecked the master cylinder on my Miata.

I would try a brake fluid flush first because it's cheaper than replacing the master cylinder and you probably need to do it anyway. If that doesn't solve the problem you likely need a new master brake cylinder.

 

[dabuddha]

thank you all for the information. I don't remember if I had mentioned this earlier but before doing the brake job, the brakes were really hard to push. Meaning I had to push hard down on the pedal in order to apply the brakes (and the pedal wouldn't sink easily).

I read that one of the symptoms of a bad brake booster is how hard it is to push the brake pedal.

I was talking to a buddy of mine at work and here are the steps he recommended:

With the van off, try pumping the brake pedal a few times. If I'm hearing the wooshing noise still, then it's probably either the master brake cylinder or the lines need to be bled.
If I don't hear the wooshing noise, then it's probably the brake booster or the line going from the brake booster to the engine. To check the line, he said to detach it from the brake booster and put my thumb over the end of the hose and see if I can hear any noise leaking.

 

[jtvang125]

Sounds like you got air into the system. Similar thing happened to me when replacing my pads and rotors. Pedal felt very spongy but I was still able to stop just fine. I tried bleeding it myself but it didn't help. Finally took it into the dealer and they said I most likely got air into the abs system and normal bleeding will not get rid of it. They had to hook the whole brake system to their machine and do a complete flush. Spongy feeling was gone afterwards.