Did Israel hi-jack a Russian ship full of missles bound for Iran?

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
I had been talking with friends in Israel who make it their buisness to know what is going on ever since I saw this article on yahoo.

Even though nobody on the israeli side of things denies or affirms this article in accurate in what it proposes......everybody I know says it is very possible....

Shalom!!


http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2009083...08599191934200


By SIMON SHUSTER / MOSCOW Simon Shuster / Moscow ? Mon Aug 31, 5:00 pm ET

In July, the Russian-manned cargo ship the Arctic Sea disappeared on its way to take timber from Finland to Algeria, sparking reports of the first incident of piracy in European waters since the days of the buccaneers. Experts and observers weighed in with their theories: the ship had been snatched in a commercial dispute; it was being used to run drugs; it was carrying something more precious - or dangerous - than timber.


Since then, the Russian navy has found the ship, and the alleged hijackers who boarded it on July 24 have been charged with kidnapping and piracy. The ship's captain, his crew and whatever cargo the ship was carrying have also been detained. An initial search of the hull turned up nothing suspicious, and now Russia's official explanation of what happened will probably become the final one - this was a hijacking thwarted by its navy without a shot being fired. But there are baffling details left unexplained, leading some experts to claim that the truth is much more sinister: the Arctic Sea, they say, was intercepted by Israel as it carried a secret cargo of weapons to the Middle East.


The highest-ranking official to put forward this version of events is the European Union's rapporteur on piracy and a former commander of the Estonian armed forces, Admiral Tarmo Kouts. In an interview with TIME, he says only a shipment of missiles could account for Russia's bizarre behavior throughout the monthlong saga. "There is the idea that there were missiles aboard, and one can't explain this situation in any other way," he says. "As a sailor with years of experience, I can tell you that the official versions are not realistic."


Kouts says an Israeli interception of the cargo is the most likely explanation. But this theory, which some Russian analysts put forward in the days after the Arctic Sea was rescued and which Kouts agreed with in his interview with TIME, has been vehemently denied by Russia's envoy to NATO, Dmitri Rogozin, who says Kouts should stop "running his mouth." (Read "Girding for the Pirates' Revenge.")


The official explanation coming out of Moscow is simple enough: the Arctic Sea, manned by a Russian crew, set sail from Finland under a Maltese flag on July 22. It was destined for Algeria and carried less than $2 million worth of timber. Then a group of eight Russian and former Soviet hijackers boarded the ship on July 24. The ship's tracking device was disabled in the last days of July, as it passed through the English Channel into the Atlantic, and the ship disappeared. On Aug. 12, the Russian navy sent out a search party. A week later, Russia declared that the ship and its crew had been rescued. (Read "Has Piracy Spread to Europe's Waters?")


But as details of the hijacking emerged, the tale got murkier, and Moscow's explanation does little to clear things up. Why, with so many other ships carrying much more valuable cargo, would the hijackers target the Arctic Sea and its small load of timber? Why didn't the ship send out a distress signal? Why did Israeli President Shimon Peres pay a surprise visit to Russia a day after the ship was rescued? Why did Russia wait so long to send its navy to find the ship? And what did the brother of one of the alleged hijackers, Dmitri Bartenev, mean when he told Estonian TV on Aug. 24 that his brother and the other suspected pirates had been "set up ... They went to find work and ended up in a political conflict. Now they are hostage to some kind of political game"? Bartenev's lawyer tells TIME that his client was "in the wrong place at the wrong time."

There are also questions surrounding the Arctic Sea's rescue. On orders from the Kremlin, Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov sent a completely disproportionate force, including destroyers and submarines, to look for the vessel. It took five days for them to find it, the Defense Ministry said, even though the Foreign Ministry later announced that it was fully aware of the Arctic Sea's coordinates the entire time. To fly the alleged pirates and the crew back to Moscow - a group of only 19 men - Russia dispatched two enormous military-cargo planes. And then on their arrival, the ship's crew was detained along with the alleged hijackers for days of questioning, with no access to their families or the media.

"Even from the basic facts, without assumptions, it is clear that this was not just piracy," says Mikhail Voitenko, editor of the Russian maritime journal Sovfrakht, which has been tracking unusual incidents on the high seas for decades. "I've never seen anything like this. These are some of the most heavily policed waters in the world. You cannot just hide a ship there for weeks without government involvement."

According to Voitenko and other experts, a secret cargo could have been hidden on the ship during the two weeks it spent in Kaliningrad for repairs, just before it picked up its Finnish haul of timber. Not contiguous with the rest of Russia, Kaliningrad is the country's westernmost enclave on the coast of the Baltic Sea, and is known as a hub for Russian smugglers. "Personally, I don't care about any missiles," Voitenko tells TIME. "I care about what they're doing with those sailors."


There are many governments, however, that would be more concerned about a possible missile shipment, especially if it were destined for the Middle East. Chief among them is Israel. In recent years, the Israeli government has consistently raised alarms about Russia's plans to sell MiG-31 fighter planes to Syria and its construction of a nuclear-power station in southwestern Iran. Negotiations with Moscow have been tough on these issues and relations often icy, as the Israeli President pointed out during his visit to Russia on Aug. 18, just as the mysteries behind the Arctic Sea's disappearance began to unfold. (Read "Medvedev and Obama: Sunshine in Moscow.")

"The most likely explanation is that the Israelis intercepted this cargo, which had been meant for Syria or Iran," says Yulya Latynina, a prominent political commentator and radio host on Echo of Moscow, a station owned by state-controlled gas giant Gazprom. "They will now use the incident as a bargaining chip with Russia over weapons sales in the region, while allowing Russia to save face by taking its empty ship back home." When contacted by TIME, both the Israeli Prime Minister's office and Mossad, Israel's secret service, declined to comment. (See pictures of 60 years of Israel.)


But in an Aug. 18 statement, the Israeli Foreign Ministry said that Peres had discussed "the sale of Russian weapons and military hardware to countries hostile to Israel" with his Russian counterpart, Dmitri Medvedev, on that day during four hours of closed-door talks in the Russian city of Sochi. According to the statement, Peres "stressed that Israel has concrete proof of Russian weapons being transferred to terrorist organizations by Iran and Syria, especially to Hamas and Hizballah." A spokeswoman for the Israeli President declined to elaborate on any connection with the Arctic Sea. In a parallel statement, the Kremlin did not mention weapons sales, saying after the meeting that "we more clearly and precisely understand each other's positions."


Russia's chief investigator, Alexander Bastrykin, told official state newspaper Rossiyskaya Gazeta that a band of new-age pirates, possibly in connivance with the crew, is all that lies behind the Arctic Sea mystery. But he did concede that there are questions that need answering. "We don't rule out the possibility that [the ship] was carrying more than just timber," he said, without elaborating further.


Speaking to TIME, NATO envoy Rogozin backed up the investigator's statement: "The cargo has to be checked to see if there was something illegal, something being smuggled." But he declined to comment on the theory of Israeli interception. "This is no longer a question for diplomats or for the military," he said. "It is now a question for the investigators, and they are carrying on with their work. We are also very curious to hear their findings."

When asked by TIME about the possibility that the Arctic Sea was carrying a secret cargo, Vladimir Voronov, deputy head of Oy Solchart Management - the Helsinki-based, Russian-run company that operates the ship - replied, "I don't know anything about a secret cargo. We're just a simple shipping firm, and from what we understand, our ship was hijacked."


According to investigator Bastrykin, a full search of the vessel will be carried out when the ship arrives at a Russian port in the next few weeks. But observers don't expect any revelations. "The versions we are getting from the Russian government do not fit into any logical parameters, and I don't think that will change," commentator Latynina says. "When people lie, they tend to lie consistently."

----------------------------
Lock info in the final post

Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy
 

dammitgibs

Senior member
Jan 31, 2009
477
0
0
I remember last year that Iran was purchasing SA-20 Triumf SAMs from Russia but I thought they were already in place and operational. Maybe that got pushed back and this is what that was. I always looked at the SA-20 as the go/no-go point for Israel to strike Iran by air because of what a formidable weapon system it is. If Israel or the US even were to strike Iran by air after the SA-20 was in place they would take huge losses.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw...5719330a95&plckComment
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
If Russia really wanted to piss the world off, they could deliver the S-300 systems that they already sold to Iran.


If they really really really wanted to piss off the world, they could deliver S-400.


To answer your question OP, yes, there is more to that story than we will ever know. But to suggest that Russia would have issues delivering weapon systems that are legal to sell, I doubt it.

If Russia was trying to deliver something more than missles, as in something "hot", that could very well be what it is.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
Originally posted by: al981
op, sell me some of your tinfoil.

No tin foil......at all!
I just know what the Israeli military is capable of!

This subject was not posted as if I actually believe...
But it does raise some legitimate questions about what really did happen.

Unlike our friendly 9/11 tin foil peeps theis is nothing to indicate this sis or did not happen!!
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

I had been talking with friends in Israel who make it their buisness to know what is going on ever since I saw this article on yahoo.

Even though nobody on the israeli side of things denies or affirms this article in accurate in what it proposes......everybody I know says it is very possible....

Shalom!!


http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2009083...08599191934200


By SIMON SHUSTER / MOSCOW Simon Shuster / Moscow ? Mon Aug 31, 5:00 pm ET

In July, the Russian-manned cargo ship the Arctic Sea disappeared on its way to take timber from Finland to Algeria, sparking reports of the first incident of piracy in European waters since the days of the buccaneers. Experts and observers weighed in with their theories: the ship had been snatched in a commercial dispute; it was being used to run drugs; it was carrying something more precious - or dangerous - than timber.


Since then, the Russian navy has found the ship, and the alleged hijackers who boarded it on July 24 have been charged with kidnapping and piracy. The ship's captain, his crew and whatever cargo the ship was carrying have also been detained. An initial search of the hull turned up nothing suspicious, and now Russia's official explanation of what happened will probably become the final one - this was a hijacking thwarted by its navy without a shot being fired. But there are baffling details left unexplained, leading some experts to claim that the truth is much more sinister: the Arctic Sea, they say, was intercepted by Israel as it carried a secret cargo of weapons to the Middle East.


The highest-ranking official to put forward this version of events is the European Union's rapporteur on piracy and a former commander of the Estonian armed forces, Admiral Tarmo Kouts. In an interview with TIME, he says only a shipment of missiles could account for Russia's bizarre behavior throughout the monthlong saga. "There is the idea that there were missiles aboard, and one can't explain this situation in any other way," he says. "As a sailor with years of experience, I can tell you that the official versions are not realistic."


Kouts says an Israeli interception of the cargo is the most likely explanation. But this theory, which some Russian analysts put forward in the days after the Arctic Sea was rescued and which Kouts agreed with in his interview with TIME, has been vehemently denied by Russia's envoy to NATO, Dmitri Rogozin, who says Kouts should stop "running his mouth." (Read "Girding for the Pirates' Revenge.")


The official explanation coming out of Moscow is simple enough: the Arctic Sea, manned by a Russian crew, set sail from Finland under a Maltese flag on July 22. It was destined for Algeria and carried less than $2 million worth of timber. Then a group of eight Russian and former Soviet hijackers boarded the ship on July 24. The ship's tracking device was disabled in the last days of July, as it passed through the English Channel into the Atlantic, and the ship disappeared. On Aug. 12, the Russian navy sent out a search party. A week later, Russia declared that the ship and its crew had been rescued. (Read "Has Piracy Spread to Europe's Waters?")


But as details of the hijacking emerged, the tale got murkier, and Moscow's explanation does little to clear things up. Why, with so many other ships carrying much more valuable cargo, would the hijackers target the Arctic Sea and its small load of timber? Why didn't the ship send out a distress signal? Why did Israeli President Shimon Peres pay a surprise visit to Russia a day after the ship was rescued? Why did Russia wait so long to send its navy to find the ship? And what did the brother of one of the alleged hijackers, Dmitri Bartenev, mean when he told Estonian TV on Aug. 24 that his brother and the other suspected pirates had been "set up ... They went to find work and ended up in a political conflict. Now they are hostage to some kind of political game"? Bartenev's lawyer tells TIME that his client was "in the wrong place at the wrong time."

There are also questions surrounding the Arctic Sea's rescue. On orders from the Kremlin, Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov sent a completely disproportionate force, including destroyers and submarines, to look for the vessel. It took five days for them to find it, the Defense Ministry said, even though the Foreign Ministry later announced that it was fully aware of the Arctic Sea's coordinates the entire time. To fly the alleged pirates and the crew back to Moscow - a group of only 19 men - Russia dispatched two enormous military-cargo planes. And then on their arrival, the ship's crew was detained along with the alleged hijackers for days of questioning, with no access to their families or the media.

"Even from the basic facts, without assumptions, it is clear that this was not just piracy," says Mikhail Voitenko, editor of the Russian maritime journal Sovfrakht, which has been tracking unusual incidents on the high seas for decades. "I've never seen anything like this. These are some of the most heavily policed waters in the world. You cannot just hide a ship there for weeks without government involvement."

According to Voitenko and other experts, a secret cargo could have been hidden on the ship during the two weeks it spent in Kaliningrad for repairs, just before it picked up its Finnish haul of timber. Not contiguous with the rest of Russia, Kaliningrad is the country's westernmost enclave on the coast of the Baltic Sea, and is known as a hub for Russian smugglers. "Personally, I don't care about any missiles," Voitenko tells TIME. "I care about what they're doing with those sailors."


There are many governments, however, that would be more concerned about a possible missile shipment, especially if it were destined for the Middle East. Chief among them is Israel. In recent years, the Israeli government has consistently raised alarms about Russia's plans to sell MiG-31 fighter planes to Syria and its construction of a nuclear-power station in southwestern Iran. Negotiations with Moscow have been tough on these issues and relations often icy, as the Israeli President pointed out during his visit to Russia on Aug. 18, just as the mysteries behind the Arctic Sea's disappearance began to unfold. (Read "Medvedev and Obama: Sunshine in Moscow.")

"The most likely explanation is that the Israelis intercepted this cargo, which had been meant for Syria or Iran," says Yulya Latynina, a prominent political commentator and radio host on Echo of Moscow, a station owned by state-controlled gas giant Gazprom. "They will now use the incident as a bargaining chip with Russia over weapons sales in the region, while allowing Russia to save face by taking its empty ship back home." When contacted by TIME, both the Israeli Prime Minister's office and Mossad, Israel's secret service, declined to comment. (See pictures of 60 years of Israel.)


But in an Aug. 18 statement, the Israeli Foreign Ministry said that Peres had discussed "the sale of Russian weapons and military hardware to countries hostile to Israel" with his Russian counterpart, Dmitri Medvedev, on that day during four hours of closed-door talks in the Russian city of Sochi. According to the statement, Peres "stressed that Israel has concrete proof of Russian weapons being transferred to terrorist organizations by Iran and Syria, especially to Hamas and Hizballah." A spokeswoman for the Israeli President declined to elaborate on any connection with the Arctic Sea. In a parallel statement, the Kremlin did not mention weapons sales, saying after the meeting that "we more clearly and precisely understand each other's positions."


Russia's chief investigator, Alexander Bastrykin, told official state newspaper Rossiyskaya Gazeta that a band of new-age pirates, possibly in connivance with the crew, is all that lies behind the Arctic Sea mystery. But he did concede that there are questions that need answering. "We don't rule out the possibility that [the ship] was carrying more than just timber," he said, without elaborating further.


Speaking to TIME, NATO envoy Rogozin backed up the investigator's statement: "The cargo has to be checked to see if there was something illegal, something being smuggled." But he declined to comment on the theory of Israeli interception. "This is no longer a question for diplomats or for the military," he said. "It is now a question for the investigators, and they are carrying on with their work. We are also very curious to hear their findings."

When asked by TIME about the possibility that the Arctic Sea was carrying a secret cargo, Vladimir Voronov, deputy head of Oy Solchart Management - the Helsinki-based, Russian-run company that operates the ship - replied, "I don't know anything about a secret cargo. We're just a simple shipping firm, and from what we understand, our ship was hijacked."


According to investigator Bastrykin, a full search of the vessel will be carried out when the ship arrives at a Russian port in the next few weeks. But observers don't expect any revelations. "The versions we are getting from the Russian government do not fit into any logical parameters, and I don't think that will change," commentator Latynina says. "When people lie, they tend to lie consistently."

No. The hijackers were caught, the crew questioned.

This is so fucking stupid it's not worth more of a response, it's like the Truthers or the Birthers, a stupid arse conspiracy thought out ridiculous little basement dwellers in nations half around the world from the incident.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
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Originally posted by: Skoorb
Interesting. I'd like to know what this is all about.

It's about a gang of pirates from three nations taking over a ship in the Arctic sea.

It's uncommon that it happens up there so it's big news only because of that.

All of the crew, the ship and the pirates are already questioned and will be questioned by at least one other nation, none of them were Israeli nor did any of them have any links to Israel what so ever.

This is a bullsheit story.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Interesting. I'd like to know what this is all about.

It's about a gang of pirates from three nations taking over a ship in the Arctic sea.

It's uncommon that it happens up there so it's big news only because of that.

All of the crew, the ship and the pirates are already questioned and will be questioned by at least one other nation, none of them were Israeli nor did any of them have any links to Israel what so ever.

This is a bullsheit story.

You call the possibility of this happenning bullshit??
Point us towards a link to back up your errouneous assertions!

You have your information totally wrong!
They claim to have no idea what happenned to the ship......
You claim a gang of pirates from 3 nations, it`s obvious that you my friend are blowing smoke out your ass.....
No hijackers will be questioned because none were ever caught.
Russia will not let another nation question the crew. That will not happen!

if this is so fucking stoopid where are your links to disprove this article?

 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Interesting. I'd like to know what this is all about.

It's about a gang of pirates from three nations taking over a ship in the Arctic sea.

It's uncommon that it happens up there so it's big news only because of that.

All of the crew, the ship and the pirates are already questioned and will be questioned by at least one other nation, none of them were Israeli nor did any of them have any links to Israel what so ever.

This is a bullsheit story.

You call the possibility of this happenning bullshit??
Point us towards a link to back up your errouneous assertions!

You have your information totally wrong!
They claim to have no idea what happenned to the ship......
You claim a gang of pirates from 3 nations, it`s obvious that you my friend are blowing smoke out your ass.....
No hijackers will be questioned because none were ever caught.
Russia will not let another nation question the crew. That will not happen!

if this is so fucking stoopid where are your links to disprove this article?

You do realise WHERE the ship was taken over and that they have ALL of the pirates as identified by the crew in containment waiting to be shipped over to be interrogated by at least one other nation?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8206691.stm

If you need more links search for "Arctic sea pirates" on google.

"blowing smoke out my arse" eh? So ALL of them are wrong then and the crew is lying? And yes, they were of three nationalities, Russian, Latvian and Estonian.

They were ALL caught and their testimony corroborated by the crew, now quit your conspiracy sites and come back to reality, this had nothing what so ever to do with neither Iran nor Israel.

[Edited to include a better and more credible link]
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
I doubt that Iran was involved considering Russia and Iran are directly connected via the Caspian Sea. If anything, it would have to be between Russia and Syria or Russia and Hezbullah, if it was even legal.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Originally posted by: Dari
I doubt that Iran was involved considering Russia and Iran are directly connected via the Caspian Sea. If anything, it would have to be between Russia and Syria or Russia and Hezbullah, if it was even legal.

Oh how fucking wonderful, another conspiracy theory.

"Clearly what the crew and the pirates say along with the yard and the officials are lies, i have this theory about it and it's so incredibly truthful even though it's only in my head and no one involved confirms it, in fact, that PROVES it that no one wants to confirm it"

For fucks sake, it was a Russian ship with a Russian crew going out of a public port and transporting from an area where they most probably would have to be checked on the way that was attacked by eight pirates of three nationalities, they were caught, confessed and the crew (who is just a regular crew) corroborated their story.

How in the FUCK can you have a mind so insane that you can see a conspiracy story in this?

Imagine how that would work if you thought the same about every fucking shipment, well you morons would implode your skulls and sane people wouldn't have to listen to your wild fucking conspiracy theories anymore so maybe you should start doing that.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: Dari
I doubt that Iran was involved considering Russia and Iran are directly connected via the Caspian Sea. If anything, it would have to be between Russia and Syria or Russia and Hezbullah, if it was even legal.

Oh how fucking wonderful, another conspiracy theory.

"Clearly what the crew and the pirates say along with the yard and the officials are lies, i have this theory about it and it's so incredibly truthful even though it's only in my head and no one involved confirms it, in fact, that PROVES it that no one wants to confirm it"

For fucks sake, it was a Russian ship with a Russian crew going out of a public port and transporting from an area where they most probably would have to be checked on the way that was attacked by eight pirates of three nationalities, they were caught, confessed and the crew (who is just a regular crew) corroborated their story.

How in the FUCK can you have a mind so insane that you can see a conspiracy story in this?

Imagine how that would work if you thought the same about every fucking shipment, well you morons would implode your skulls and sane people wouldn't have to listen to your wild fucking conspiracy theories anymore so maybe you should start doing that.

So you have no links to back up your diatribe????
You see the thing with conspiracy theories is most of the time they can shot all to hell with undeniable facts!!

You have presented nothing in the form of links or facts or even logical thinking to shoot this article down....

Did I post the article as a factual article? NO!! I posted it as another possibility concerning the unusual mdissapearance of that ship.
When i checked with friends in Israel and Rusian friends they all agreed its a possibility...did it happen..we will never know!!

By the way before you discount my credentials........ I speak fluently 5 languages with english being the weakest.

Shalom!

 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
By the way before you discount my credentials........ I speak fluently 5 languages with english being the weakest.

Shalom!

you are discredited because you are a hardliner jew with a son in idf. You could not have a more bias viewpoint on the issue.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: Dari
I doubt that Iran was involved considering Russia and Iran are directly connected via the Caspian Sea. If anything, it would have to be between Russia and Syria or Russia and Hezbullah, if it was even legal.

Oh how fucking wonderful, another conspiracy theory.

"Clearly what the crew and the pirates say along with the yard and the officials are lies, i have this theory about it and it's so incredibly truthful even though it's only in my head and no one involved confirms it, in fact, that PROVES it that no one wants to confirm it"

For fucks sake, it was a Russian ship with a Russian crew going out of a public port and transporting from an area where they most probably would have to be checked on the way that was attacked by eight pirates of three nationalities, they were caught, confessed and the crew (who is just a regular crew) corroborated their story.

How in the FUCK can you have a mind so insane that you can see a conspiracy story in this?

Imagine how that would work if you thought the same about every fucking shipment, well you morons would implode your skulls and sane people wouldn't have to listen to your wild fucking conspiracy theories anymore so maybe you should start doing that.

So you have no links to back up your diatribe????
You see the thing with conspiracy theories is most of the time they can shot all to hell with undeniable facts!!

You have presented nothing in the form of links or facts or even logical thinking to shoot this article down....

Did I post the article as a factual article? NO!! I posted it as another possibility concerning the unusual mdissapearance of that ship.
When i checked with friends in Israel and Rusian friends they all agreed its a possibility...did it happen..we will never know!!

By the way before you discount my credentials........ I speak fluently 5 languages with english being the weakest.

Shalom!

*shakes head*

Read my previous post, i provided a link from BBC, if that is not good enough i provided a search term for you to use on google.

I have a pretty good clue about this since i have been posted in an area pretty near this one and know who opereates there.

Conspiracy theories about possibilities like "was Hussein the Muslim born in Kenya" are useless.

???? ?????
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
By the way before you discount my credentials........ I speak fluently 5 languages with english being the weakest.

Shalom!

you are discredited because you are a hardliner jew with a son in idf. You could not have a more bias viewpoint on the issue.

In your opinion maybe but not in mine.

That is a fucked up view you have right there, if anything, having a child in the army (which he's not alone to have) of a nation makes you more protective than proud.

JediYoda may be a hardliner Jew at times but i have seen posts by him that were not what you'd expect from such a man so cut him some slack on this one.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: Dari
I doubt that Iran was involved considering Russia and Iran are directly connected via the Caspian Sea. If anything, it would have to be between Russia and Syria or Russia and Hezbullah, if it was even legal.

Oh how fucking wonderful, another conspiracy theory.

"Clearly what the crew and the pirates say along with the yard and the officials are lies, i have this theory about it and it's so incredibly truthful even though it's only in my head and no one involved confirms it, in fact, that PROVES it that no one wants to confirm it"

For fucks sake, it was a Russian ship with a Russian crew going out of a public port and transporting from an area where they most probably would have to be checked on the way that was attacked by eight pirates of three nationalities, they were caught, confessed and the crew (who is just a regular crew) corroborated their story.

How in the FUCK can you have a mind so insane that you can see a conspiracy story in this?

Imagine how that would work if you thought the same about every fucking shipment, well you morons would implode your skulls and sane people wouldn't have to listen to your wild fucking conspiracy theories anymore so maybe you should start doing that.

So you have no links to back up your diatribe????
You see the thing with conspiracy theories is most of the time they can shot all to hell with undeniable facts!!

You have presented nothing in the form of links or facts or even logical thinking to shoot this article down....

Did I post the article as a factual article? NO!! I posted it as another possibility concerning the unusual mdissapearance of that ship.
When i checked with friends in Israel and Rusian friends they all agreed its a possibility...did it happen..we will never know!!

By the way before you discount my credentials........ I speak fluently 5 languages with english being the weakest.

Shalom!

And BTW, name the language and i'll converse with you in the language of your choice.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
By the way before you discount my credentials........ I speak fluently 5 languages with english being the weakest.

Shalom!

you are discredited because you are a hardliner jew with a son in idf. You could not have a more bias viewpoint on the issue.

In your opinion maybe but not in mine.

That is a fucked up view you have right there, if anything, having a child in the army (which he's not alone to have) of a nation makes you more protective than proud.

JediYoda may be a hardliner Jew at times but i have seen posts by him that were not what you'd expect from such a man so cut him some slack on this one.

I never never seen but 1 side from him on the issues of Israel, Palestinian and how those 2 mix together. I don't take his posts on these issues very seriously. You might be right and I'm sure he can think outside the box on many issues, I just have not seen it with THIS issue.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
By the way before you discount my credentials........ I speak fluently 5 languages with english being the weakest.

Shalom!

you are discredited because you are a hardliner jew with a son in idf. You could not have a more bias viewpoint on the issue.

In your opinion maybe but not in mine.

That is a fucked up view you have right there, if anything, having a child in the army (which he's not alone to have) of a nation makes you more protective than proud.

JediYoda may be a hardliner Jew at times but i have seen posts by him that were not what you'd expect from such a man so cut him some slack on this one.

I never never seen but 1 side from him on the issues of Israel, Palestinian and how those 2 mix together. I don't take his posts on these issues very seriously. You might be right and I'm sure he can think outside the box on many issues, I just have not seen it with THIS issue.

But this issue isn't really about the Palestine/Israeli situation (on which i am pretty much always on his side) but a situation regarding some idiocy some complete retard thought up that was reported as if it was truth.

And i have to say, that article should never have been written nor should this thread ever had been made, it's speculations that go against the facts and reported as if there was credibility to the claims that are just made up in the authors head.

I'm not asking you to cut him som slack forever, just on the "child in the army" thing, of course he is responsible for his own words but argue against them, not against his personal and family situation.

Or in the words of John Travolta, be cool.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
But this issue isn't really about the Palestine/Israeli situation...
Sure, though like his position on the the Palestine/Israeli situation, his embracing of this fanciful story is about Zionist supremacism; believing Russians were conspiring against Israel and outwitted by Mossad. His willingness to believe such speculation is much the same as those US suprimisists who post speculative stories of foiled terror plots.
 
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