Did Singapore do the right thing by hanging the drug smuggler

[MicroChrome]

You guys are all too soft.... Listening to the one hand clapping...

My take? That is there way of controlling drugs. Why should they change?

I bet you 10 million bucks you won't be seeing another drug dealer pushing drugs in that country for awhile!

BS!!!! Ignorance of the law is no excuse... If you can't figure out that you may be hanged or caned or locked up for 50 years when you transport drugs into another country... That's your problem...

Sorry. But that is the way I feel. Hell, what the difference from someone pushing drugs ... then someone busting into your house or stealing your car to get money to BUY the drugs?

We have a HUGE METH problem in the USA! These phreaks are taking the aluminum guard rails from your highways and selling them as scrape to get high... We need to take a stand ....

STEALING is a big problem for me. Too many people steal. Most people steal because they know the chances of them getting caught are pretty low. Even if they do get caught the first time they just get a slap on the hand.... I read that some are stealing for the "HIGH" alone... I think we ought to cut off a finger... Yup whack off a finger that will cut down on kids stealing candybars real quick..

You see, yeah, you kill one person you make a HUGE media event or you cut off a finger for someone that stole for his/her 3rd time and you play it on TV... This is what happens to you when you STEAL.... Japanese samurai don't really hesitate to let heads roll when someone goes wrong. But it sure kept them in check.

Anyway... You make a BIG example out of this (one death) and the drug/crime rate will go down saving billions and keeping kids on that straight and narrow path and out of the prison system and gangs.


Sorry, that he had to die. But if that is a nations rule. Then I think to enforce that rule they did the right thing... Do I think it right for "THEM" to write up a law and enforce it? YOU BET!!!!

Do I think it would be right for AMERICA .... WITH millions on drugs right now to just SHIFT to the KILL if you do? NOOOOOOOOOO.... It's too harsh, but I believe that USA is too SOFT on METH / CRACK USE. It?s a bad drug and really needs something to be done. But that is out of the SCOPE of this thread....

The real Question is.... What if they did NOT hang the guy. Then that would send out a message to the rest of pushers that want to come in with drugs that hey. Maybe we won't die and they would get even more people trying to get in with drugs. Not only a bigger increase of people doing but more of chance of drugs actually getting onto the streets...

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: hscorpio

The alcohol-heroin comparison is valid. They are both dangerous drugs. Don't kid yourself into thinking the harsher consequences of heroin abuse are proof of its greater danger. Much of the negative consequences from heroin are caused by the blackmarket. If alcohol was banned in the same way we would see many more cases of alcohol poisoning, drunks commiting crimes, etc. that would make alcohol look like a just as menacing a drug.

I'm not arguing heroin is equivalent to drinking a bud light, but to compare it to something like everclear isn't so far off. If alcohol was illegal we would see it in very high concentrations with who knows what adulterants just like heroin is today.

I agree that if alcohol was illegal, we would see similar problem like we see in heroin distribution. But it still doesn't change the fact that herion is a much more dangerous substance by itself, with or without regulation. It is much easier to get addicted, and the chance of overdose is higher. Therefore, the cost to the society by having legal heroin use would have been much higher than the alcohol. I mean yes we have legal alcohol use, but it doesn't mean we as a society is not paying for that. So far we as a society agrees that the cost of the legal use of alcohol is less than the cost of banning alcohol, so we make alcohol use legal. But it is not that hard to see why countries and societies think the cost of the legal use of heroin will be far higher than banning it.

The point of the thread is specific to Singapore, and I argue that because of the location, the history, and their unique society, they decided as one body to have this law to prevent herion distribution. They make the law clear and simple, and they are consistant in carrying out the law. What right do you have to judge a system that they feel save more life than it cost?

What makes you think heroin is so much more dangerous than alcohol? You should do some research on it, its surprising just how safe of a drug it is in a medically controlled environment.

I have as much right to criticize Singapores drug laws as you do to defend them.

 

[replicator]

This isn't right at all.. He may have commited a serious crime, but in no way deserving of the death penalty in my opinion.

I was apalled to read that they wouldn't even let the mother hug her son for the last time before hanging. They only let them hold hands briefly.

Very sad. Executing people won't stop the drug trade. People will still get their drugs as long as there is demand.

When a man's conscience and the laws clash, it is his conscience that he must follow." - Henry David Thoreau

 

[konichiwa]

Originally posted by: MicroChrome
You guys are all too soft.... Listening to the one hand clapping...

My take? That is there way of controlling drugs. Why should they change?

I bet you 10 million bucks you won't be seeing another drug dealer pushing drugs in that country for awhile!

BS!!!! Ignorance of the law is no excuse... If you can't figure out that you may be hanged or caned or locked up for 50 years when you transport drugs into another country... That's your problem...

Sorry. But that is the way I feel. Hell, what the difference from someone pushing drugs ... then someone busting into your house or stealing your car to get money to BUY the drugs?

We have a HUGE METH problem in the USA! These phreaks are taking the aluminum guard rails from your highways and selling them as scrape to get high... We need to take a stand ....

STEALING is a big problem for me. Too many people steal. Most people steal because they know the chances of them getting caught are pretty low. Even if they do get caught the first time they just get a slap on the hand.... I read that some are stealing for the "HIGH" alone... I think we ought to cut off a finger... Yup whack off a finger that will cut down on kids stealing candybars real quick..

You see, yeah, you kill one person you make a HUGE media event or you cut off a finger for someone that stole for his/her 3rd time and you play it on TV... This is what happens to you when you STEAL.... Japanese samurai don't really hesitate to let heads roll when someone goes wrong. But it sure kept them in check.

Anyway... You make a BIG example out of this (one death) and the drug/crime rate will go down saving billions and keeping kids on that straight and narrow path and out of the prison system and gangs.


Sorry, that he had to die. But if that is a nations rule. Then I think to enforce that rule they did the right thing... Do I think it right for "THEM" to write up a law and enforce it? YOU BET!!!!

Do I think it would be right for AMERICA .... WITH millions on drugs right now to just SHIFT to the KILL if you do? NOOOOOOOOOO.... It's too harsh, but I believe that USA is too SOFT on METH / CRACK USE. It?s a bad drug and really needs something to be done. But that is out of the SCOPE of this thread....

The real Question is.... What if they did NOT hang the guy. Then that would send out a message to the rest of pushers that want to come in with drugs that hey. Maybe we won't die and they would get even more people trying to get in with drugs. Not only a bigger increase of people doing but more of chance of drugs actually getting onto the streets...

That's all well and good, but if you did your homework you'd see that the "deterrence argument" for the death penalty and serious punishment is just false. Plain and simple; it's been proven. Your argument falls apart without that assumption.

 

[replicator]

Originally posted by: MicroChrome
You guys are all too soft.... Listening to the one hand clapping...

My take? That is there way of controlling drugs. Why should they change?

I bet you 10 million bucks you won't be seeing another drug dealer pushing drugs in that country for awhile!

How naive. Do you know how many people get executed in Singapore for drug trafficking? Do you know that the numbers have been steadily rising? This is no detterant.

"more than 420 prisoners have been hanged in Singapore since 1991, most of them for drug trafficking, according to Amnesty International."

"Singapore has the highest execution rate in the world relative to its population, according to a U.N. report on capital punishment published in July this year. "

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/12/01/execution/

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Originally posted by: MicroChrome
You guys are all too soft.... Listening to the one hand clapping...

My take? That is there way of controlling drugs. Why should they change?

I bet you 10 million bucks you won't be seeing another drug dealer pushing drugs in that country for awhile!

BS!!!! Ignorance of the law is no excuse... If you can't figure out that you may be hanged or caned or locked up for 50 years when you transport drugs into another country... That's your problem...

Sorry. But that is the way I feel. Hell, what the difference from someone pushing drugs ... then someone busting into your house or stealing your car to get money to BUY the drugs?

We have a HUGE METH problem in the USA! These phreaks are taking the aluminum guard rails from your highways and selling them as scrape to get high... We need to take a stand ....

STEALING is a big problem for me. Too many people steal. Most people steal because they know the chances of them getting caught are pretty low. Even if they do get caught the first time they just get a slap on the hand.... I read that some are stealing for the "HIGH" alone... I think we ought to cut off a finger... Yup whack off a finger that will cut down on kids stealing candybars real quick..

You see, yeah, you kill one person you make a HUGE media event or you cut off a finger for someone that stole for his/her 3rd time and you play it on TV... This is what happens to you when you STEAL.... Japanese samurai don't really hesitate to let heads roll when someone goes wrong. But it sure kept them in check.

Anyway... You make a BIG example out of this (one death) and the drug/crime rate will go down saving billions and keeping kids on that straight and narrow path and out of the prison system and gangs.


Sorry, that he had to die. But if that is a nations rule. Then I think to enforce that rule they did the right thing... Do I think it right for "THEM" to write up a law and enforce it? YOU BET!!!!

Do I think it would be right for AMERICA .... WITH millions on drugs right now to just SHIFT to the KILL if you do? NOOOOOOOOOO.... It's too harsh, but I believe that USA is too SOFT on METH / CRACK USE. It?s a bad drug and really needs something to be done. But that is out of the SCOPE of this thread....

The real Question is.... What if they did NOT hang the guy. Then that would send out a message to the rest of pushers that want to come in with drugs that hey. Maybe we won't die and they would get even more people trying to get in with drugs. Not only a bigger increase of people doing but more of chance of drugs actually getting onto the streets...

You are sadly mistaken if you think this killing will put a dent in the heroin trafficking in that region. There are millions of poor people, many stupid enough and willing to risk their lives to get rich quick being a drug mule.

 

[MicroChrome]

Ok, yes, I know you will never stop this... I didn't say that. And maybe it is on the rise because they are just catching more people.

You will NEVER ever stop drug use. People are going to do what they are going to do. No doubt about it. You can't tell me that dieing is NOT a detterant. I think people think real heard before they do something if they know that they could DIE...

Ommm, lets put the hand on the other foot.... Who is to say who is WRONG here? I think they are pefectly leagle and legit to hang someone for breaking the LAW. We (USA) put people away in prison for growing canabus .... Sometimes the drug growers, That mind thier own business and not hurting anyone.... Canabus has never KILLED ANYONE that is a FACT. Anyway... These guys get more time then killing someone or someone that steals something. How the hell are we (USA) or any other country to tell another country that they are wrong?

Sorry, I don't get it. If that is thier way of dealing with a drug problem .... So be it. I don't think it's right to lock someone up for 20+ years... WASTING away tax dollars that could be helping educating someone about Drug Use.

This is getting off topic. But, I believe the USA is screwed up. Could you call SEX a drug? I think so. Lots of people get locked up for that too... We keep some of our drugs leagle while we put people in jail for other drugs. We can't really sit on the fence ... We need to regulate all of the drugs... one way or the other... Why not sell all the drugs make a huge PROFIT and give half of it to our police force and the other half to drug education? I believe that the USA is totally WHACKED ... You either take a VERY hard line... Or you BEND the other way...

You can't have it both ways...

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Yes.

He smuggled in the equvialent of 26,000 hits.

Frankly I don't see why anyone suffers a drug dealer to live. The product they deal with destroys lives. Where do people get off forgiving these jerks? They know what they are doing. They sell drugs out of greed.


If your stupid enough to carry drugs in any foreign country you deserve what you get.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: Hafen
F that, F Singapore.
This is a shining example of how such zero-tolerance get-tough laws don't really work, else no one would ever commit such a crime as the punishments are so high. In the end people do it anyway given enough desperation or stupidity, and you just kill alot of people needlessly.

They have an upper limit on how much you can bring in before it triggers the death penalty. From what I read this guy had nearly 30 times the limit.

So when do we stop excusing people for being stupid? It is well known that bringing drugs into Singapore can result in your death yet people do it all the time.


EVOLUTION IN ACTION.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: joshw10
Am I correct in reading this poll that 40% here think that death is a suitable punishment for smuggling some drugs? Some sick f!cks here

Whats more sick?

Your telling me it is better to have drug dealers than not? It is better to allow people to traffic in a substance which exploits third world people, causes countless deaths, and destroys the lives of those who use it and around them?

the only sickos are those who defend these people.

THEY PREY ON SOCIETY. If your stupid enough to be one when the consequences are so high your too stupid to have in society.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Oh if you get caught with 400, 40, or 4 kilos of Horse, I think you deserve a nice long sentence to contemplate (and then train) for a different line of work. That's quite different from endorsing 1) state sponsored murder OR 2) leniency for the trafficking of drugs.
.

Oh, so if your caught with drugs society should pay to put you up for years to contemplate your idiocy at society's expense? Huh? That's right, rapists and murderers are just good people who made a little mistake, lets keep them around too. Better yet, lets release them back into the same society they preyed upon before.


Lets just totally ignore all the people whose lives are destroyed by these jerks, as its apparent the lives of these jerks are far more valuable than the few, dozens, or even hundreds the negatively impacted. The cost to society to coddle people who prey on it is too high. We either remove them permanently or forever live in a society of fear.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: The Linuxator

Originally posted by: ntdz
I think it's too harsh, plus it wasn't a resident of Singapore.

Who cares he broke their law he gets their punishment, and no it's not too harsh, I have this feeling it was too little.

No really? I couldn't tell from your previous post.
Do you often have these torture scenarios floating around in your head? I'm not sure what's worse, the effects of Heroin on people, or the response of outraged moralists....
I thought the other poster's point about alcohol tearing lives apart was valid point. But that's great you choose to abide by the law which makes it legal and don't torture convenience store clerks though. :thumbsup:

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: MicroChrome


Anyway... You make a BIG example out of this (one death) and the drug/crime rate will go down saving billions and keeping kids on that straight and narrow path and out of the prison system and gangs.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHA

That has never worked and will never work. But you are a child, so you probably didn't know that.

People who use drugs need treatment, not jail/prison time. You need to get them off the drug and clear from it so they can pay their reparations. Throwing them in jail doesn't do much more then fill up a jail with people who don't need to be there.

Oh, its spelled legal by the way. L-e-g-a-l.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Oh if you get caught with 400, 40, or 4 kilos of Horse, I think you deserve a nice long sentence to contemplate (and then train) for a different line of work. That's quite different from endorsing 1) state sponsored murder OR 2) leniency for the trafficking of drugs.
.

Oh, so if your caught with drugs society should pay to put you up for years to contemplate your idiocy at society's expense? Huh? That's right, rapists and murderers are just good people who made a little mistake, lets keep them around too. Better yet, lets release them back into the same society they preyed upon before.


Lets just totally ignore all the people whose lives are destroyed by these jerks, as its apparent the lives of these jerks are far more valuable than the few, dozens, or even hundreds the negatively impacted. The cost to society to coddle people who prey on it is too high. We either remove them permanently or forever live in a society of fear.

It was a long fall . . . I see the wound healed . . . but that brain injury . . . too bad.

 

[Red Dawn]

While making their country antiseptic they've made it into a society run by Big Brother.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

It was a long fall . . . I see the wound healed . . . but that brain injury . . . too bad.

I am sure you will recover one day, if not well I figure I will be paying for you too.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: konichiwa

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: hscorpio

The alcohol-heroin comparison is valid. They are both dangerous drugs. Don't kid yourself into thinking the harsher consequences of heroin abuse are proof of its greater danger. Much of the negative consequences from heroin are caused by the blackmarket. If alcohol was banned in the same way we would see many more cases of alcohol poisoning, drunks commiting crimes, etc. that would make alcohol look like a just as menacing a drug.

I'm not arguing heroin is equivalent to drinking a bud light, but to compare it to something like everclear isn't so far off. If alcohol was illegal we would see it in very high concentrations with who knows what adulterants just like heroin is today.

I agree that if alcohol was illegal, we would see similar problem like we see in heroin distribution. But it still doesn't change the fact that herion is a much more dangerous substance by itself, with or without regulation. It is much easier to get addicted, and the chance of overdose is higher. Therefore, the cost to the society by having legal heroin use would have been much higher than the alcohol. I mean yes we have legal alcohol use, but it doesn't mean we as a society is not paying for that. So far we as a society agrees that the cost of the legal use of alcohol is less than the cost of banning alcohol, so we make alcohol use legal. But it is not that hard to see why countries and societies think the cost of the legal use of heroin will be far higher than banning it.

The point of the thread is specific to Singapore, and I argue that because of the location, the history, and their unique society, they decided as one body to have this law to prevent herion distribution. They make the law clear and simple, and they are consistant in carrying out the law. What right do you have to judge a system that they feel save more life than it cost?

Because they're killing people? National sovereignty goes out the window, in my opinion, when cases like this are concerned. You're a human way before you're a Singaporian or an Australian, and that gives me plenty right to take issue with their law.

Oh so herion use doesn't kill people? I am in no way supporting the killing of people for no reason. But herion use is a serious issue. The use of the drug cost lifes, the addiction to the drug cost lifes, and the crime and the violance comes with the drug cost lifes. If you don't have a strict rule to deter people from distributing and using herion, people dies. So Singapore hang 420 people over the last 15 years, how many more people would have died if herion rans rampant in Singapore with Golden Triangle close by?

Maybe next time you should try reason with those drug dealers in a civilized way. Maybe they will be nice and listen to you. Or sometime you gotta step out of the comfort of your house and realize that it is a cold hard world out there, and ppl kill for money and drug. Sometimes for the greater good of the society you need to have strict rules to deal with ppl who cannot reason wtih.

 

[crownjules]

Originally posted by: Hafen
F that, F Singapore.

This is a shining example of how such zero-tolerance get-tough laws don't really work, else no one would ever commit such a crime as the punishments are so high. In the end people do it anyway given enough desperation or stupidity, and you just kill alot of people needlessly.

I guess that's why Singapore has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. It just doesn't work.

I say good for Singapore. You think drug trafficking is the smallest part of his crime? It is one step in a LONG progression that leads to even more crime. Those drugs create addicts. Some of those addicts will go to lengths to do whatever it takes to get ahold of those drugs: robbing, stealing, even killing. Singapore has adopted a policy that nips it at the bud.

 

[Genx87]

I think there is a larger more pronounced drug issue in SE than in the United States. In the US you have your drug deadbeats who live in one area, and the affluent who like to dabble in it in another. In SE Asia I think there can be entire areas of people addicted.

This is a step up from how the Communists in china took care of the problem of Opium addiction. They would shoot the addicted in the back of the head in public then kill his family in the same manner.

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
While making their country antiseptic they've made it into a society run by Big Brother.

And frankly, most Singaporeans think that trade-off is just fine.

Their standard of living is WAY higher than neighboring countries, and while their government is restrictive, it is also bent on helping the Singaporeans succeed. And the people believe that, and the government has acted in that manner for decades.

We should be so fortunate to have a government act in the citizen's best interest like Singapore's does. Instead, the US is getting the police state control without the nurturing...

Future Shock

 

[arsbanned]

Yeah, it's a beautiful place. I spent a few weeks there several years ago. It was spotless! Building construction was happening at a fever pitch. There were no homeless people. Or drug dealers.
Didn't they lash an American kid a few years back for spitting his gum out or something?

 

[piasabird]

Drug dealers should be burned at the stake.

 

[Michael]

hscorpio,

I live in Singapore now. From what I can tell from casual conversations with my friends and co-workers here, by far the majority of Singaporeans support the government and the system here. It certainly has worked compared to all the countries around from them. This is mainly been the result of them being blessed by fairly uncorrupt government (every once and a while something happens, it is found out and the person in power is punished.)

The average Singaporean I've met doesn't think the government is perfect. All have at least a couple of things that bother them (mainly local, neighbourhood issues), but they see no reason to try and vote the current party out of office.

The older people have seen the direct result of what the government system has given them - a clean, safe, wealthy and modern city. They complain about the younger generation that grew up with all the benefits without understanding where the country came from. Many Singaporeans go overseas for studies or at least for holidays, so it isn't like they don't get to see what other choices there are. There also is pretty much free access to the internet, so there is plenty of opportunity to read outside news and opinion.

Michael

ps - as for the hanging yesterday, you're clearly warned before you land in Singapore about what the penalties are. Seems to me that this is a Singapore issue. The accused had access to a lawyer and was given a fair trial. The law is clear on what the penalty is for smuggling drugs.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Drug dealers should be burned at the stake.

Unless they work for Rush Limbaugh

 

[MicroChrome]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Yeah, it's a beautiful place. I spent a few weeks there several years ago. It was spotless! Building construction was happening at a fever pitch. There were no homeless people. Or drug dealers.
Didn't they lash an American kid a few years back for spitting his gum out or something?

I wish they would do that to people that seem to think after they are done smoking they can just discard butts as they please....

Ever watch a good ol 'american baseball game latly? Notice how much spitting is going on?

It was not lashing but 'caned' ... And I remember about it because the soft people thought it was too harsh to hit someone with a cane because of a bad habbit. I was all for it! I'd love to see some carless smoker getting whacked because he couldn't figure out to where to put his rubbish.

I tell you ... you can't even enjoy the parks with out seeing trash all over and kids spraying /taggin all the benches. It's disgusting. Like if we had any cops around to enforce it. Sheesh, we should be taking the $$ from the TSA and pumping it into where it's needed most.