Oh, and apologies to the OP for diverting the thread off-topic.
OP: apples are now out of season in both hemispheres, hence the higher price. /thread.
OP: apples are now out of season in both hemispheres, hence the higher price. /thread.
By your statement above, you have finally agreed with my point. Congrats.
Don't hurt yourself over-analyzing data. I said nothing about apples nor natural pesticides. The study I linked = an example from 2002 of where I got the notion that organics contain 1-2 pesticides on average. Furthermore, CNN stating that most of the Dirty Dozen contain 47-67 residues is a fact proven the annual Pesticide Data Program, e.g. blueberries testing positive for a large percentage of chemicals.
I'm glad that you finally understand why people choose organic over non-organic; I agree that safety is still not proven because we don't know enough about how dosages affect the human body. Better safe than sorry, 47 times more in fact.
Also, it's a proven fact that organic apparently contains HIGHER levels of at least one chemical that is considered to probably be a carcinogen.
Yeah there are some nasty chemical *-cides allowed under organic certification.
These chemicals are NATURALLY occurring in celery - NOT the result of pesticide use. Yet, he wants to pretend that organically raised celery wouldn't contain these chemicals. I'm not sure if he's just trolling, or really is that foolish. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2404325Celery, parsley, and parsnips contain the linear furanocoumarin phytoalexins psoralen, bergapten, and xanthotoxin that can cause photosensitization and also are photomutagenic and photocarcinogenic. Celery field workers and handlers continually have photosensitization problems as a result of these indigenous celery furanocoumarins. A new celery cultivar (a result of plant breeding to produce a more pest-resistant variety) was responsible for significant incidences of phytophotodermatitis of grocery employees. Since there is no regulatory agency or body designated to oversee potential toxicological issues associated with naturally occurring toxicants, photodermatitis continues to occur from celery exposure.
I live in Boston and recently the price of organic Apples here shot up about .70/lbs...this happen for anyone else? Usually they're not that much more expensive than regular apples, but at that price now I can't afford to buy them...
Quoted for evidence of lack of reading comprehension. I did not agree with your point. I'm disputing your comparison of 1-2 pesticide residues to 47-67 pesticides, which is complete bullshit. If you're going with the 47-67 figure for apples, then the pesticide figure for organic apples is in the 30's. Also, it's a proven fact that organic apparently contains HIGHER levels of at least one chemical that is considered to probably be a carcinogen.
As far as saying nothing about natural pesticides, you have one link which says 47-67, and another, more scientific source, saying no more than 14.
Multiple Residues: Conventionally grown foods often contain residues of more than one pesticide. A conventionally grown apple tested by USDA in 1996 was more likely to contain four or more residues than to contain three or less, and some individual samples have been found with as many as 14 different residues. We examined the frequency of multiple residues and again found highly statistically significant differences between the market categories. Conventionally grown samples had multiple residues in 46, 12 and 62 percent of USDA, DPR and CU samples, respectively. Organic samples had multiple residues in only 7, 1.3 and 6 percent of the samples in those three data sets.
yes, there are. However, many (most?) plants produce their own natural pesticides. It's academic dishonesty to count these for one study of non-organic produce, and to not count them for a study of organic when making a comparison.
And, since the reading-comprehension impaired arguer wants to switch to celery, here's this: These chemicals are NATURALLY occurring in celery - NOT the result of pesticide use. Yet, he wants to pretend that organically raised celery wouldn't contain these chemicals. I'm not sure if he's just trolling, or really is that foolish. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2404325
There's no reason to assume that organic is safer. In fact, there are several studies that show that some of the predominant methods of growing organic lead to higher risks of certain types of contamination.
You mother fuckers really take this shit too seriously. Dr. Pizza -what's your personal stake in all of this? Just curious.. It's wonderful that our market allows us choice, why not just let people buy what they like?
"Allergies"? Again, perhaps it IS that you are selectively blind. Did you miss the title of the article which contains the key two words:
Natural pesticides
The original study you linked to also counted naturally occurring pesticides. It doesn't take too much thought to conclude, "well, if at the most, there are 14 applied pesticides, and the total of 67 pesticides includes naturally occurring pesticides then..."
And, you're calling it "food allergies" in my most recent link? Now I'm pretty sure you're just trolling. You've also completely ignored another issue: concentration. But, I don't have the time to bother any more.
But, here, you may as well read this (and you can follow the references to peer reviewed journals, not CNN articles.)
http://www.greenbalance.org/cancer/2-cancer-chemicals.htm
Consumption of natural chemicals in the diet (green on the right) occurs in common foods at a range of MOE levels, and many are much closer to the rodent cancer dose...
No diet can be free of naturally occurring chemicals that cause cancer in rodents at high doses. [See green chemical exposures in graphic on right].
This.Oh, and apologies to the OP for diverting the thread off-topic.
OP: apples are now out of season in both hemispheres, hence the higher price. /thread.
Yes, food allergies = natural adverse reaction to natural foods (rash from example).
From your quackjob professor's powerpoint,
http://potency.berkeley.edu/MOE.html
Then she goes on to list in green:
coffee, beer, toast, mushrooms, celery, french fries, bacon, lettuce, bread and hamburger.
So basically, everything in the diet causes cancer. Awesome assessment!
If you're going to accept her "natural pesticides" theory then you may as well never drink coffee again because it has a > % tested positive:
Proportion Of Chemicals That Are Carcinogenic in High Dose Rodent Experiments
Chemicals tested in rats or mice 52% 786/1523
Natural pesticides 53% 43/81
Commercial pesticides 40% 82/206
Mold toxins 59% 16/27
Natural chemicals in roasted coffee 72% 23/32
/cuckoo /cuckoo
I seriously hope you don't believe this BS. If you do, then I hope you don't drink coffee or alcoholic beverages.
has absolutely no impact on that.that cause cancer in rodents at high doses
Surely this:
has absolutely no impact on that.
You're calling her a quack for pointing out that you get natural chemicals in foods that people typically eat, that when given to rats in high doses causes cancer? You're aware that, yes, in fact a ton of things in high doses will cause cancer?
What Dr. Pizza was pointing out in saying how you're ignoring concentration is that just because there are more chemicals found, the concentration would absolutely play a huge role in it being dangerous. Which would you rather eat, food that has .001% comprised of combined 100 chemicals or one that has 1% of 1 chemical?
organic milk just tastes better.. it's true, you poor bastards who believe otherwise
That's completely obvious. The discussion isn't about dose hypotheses but how many different chemicals that are ingested by eating non-organic vs organic. He somehow diverted the topic from synthetic chemicals to some quack professor's powerpoint slide that everything we eat may cause cancer in rats at high dosages? That's deep.
If we knew exactly how the human body responded to different dosages then we'd be able to cure cancer. The fact of the matter is that we don't, and minimizing our intake of synthetic chemicals (we can control) by eating organics has nothing to do with something that may be out of our control (eating "natural chemicals" that may cause cancer or an allergic reaction due to its genetic modification that we don't know about). DrP will argue just for the sake of arguing; if he is that passionate about natural pesticide theory and GMO food allergies then he should create a new thread about it.
All in all I got him to agree with my main point which is pretty dam rare.
If you're going to claim someone is a quack you better be able to explain your reasoning for it. He was using it to point out something, namely that just because there's a chemical in the food doesn't mean it was put there by pesticides, and that if one side is going to mislead with obfuscation by ignoring that theirs' would have the same chemicals then it doesn't make it an even comparison.
And you keep bringing up this "arguing for the sake of arguing", yet, you seem to be the one doing that more than anyone. You claim someone to be a quack for no apparent reason while ignoring a fundamental point and then admit that it obviously matters, and then proceed to claim we don't understand it at all?
thats nonsense. organic milk taste just as bland as the store milk right next to it. If you want really good milk you need to get it from a dairy.
like these guys.
http://www.royalcrestdairy.com/
Maybe you forgot to sign your consent to purchase form.
Distant second to honeycrisp. I don't eat apples except when honeycrisps are in season because its like eating nature's candy.
An apple is organic. Unless you grew it yourself you would never know what was sprayed or applied to the fruit/veggie you are eating. All I see is that 'organic' labeled foods are sometimes 50-100% more expensive than non labeled organic food. They also look much smaller and not as large as their 'non-organic' counterparts. Eat whatever you wish and makes you happier. I see no clear difference in nutrition between the two except a dent in the pocket book.
/at least the OP didn't shop at Bread and Circus (aka Wholefoods) in Allston and Brighton