Diesel Cars - am i missing something?

[Hulk]

Gasoline is extremely cheap right now which makes diesel look less appealing. Jalopnik had an article the other day on the good deals currently available on diesels because of the price difference in fuel.

http://carbuying.jalopnik.com/you-can-get-an-insane-deal-on-a-diesel-car-right-now-th-1686954874

The United States refines crude oil to maximize gasoline production, not diesel. That's why diesel is always more expensive than gas in the US. This won't change unless there is a reason to refine for more diesel, which of course won't happen without more diesel vehicles, which of course won't happen without cheap diesel, rinse, repeat...

Bottom line is that diesel doesn't make nearly as much sense in the US as it does in Europe.

 

[tortillasoup]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/23/us-usa-refiners-trucks-analysis-idUSKBN0MJ09520150323

 

[Ramses]

What puzzles me, and I'm sure if I really wanted to know I could scour enough of the internet to find out why, is that diesel was consistently cheaper than regular unleaded for a very long time(till the mid or late 90's I guess when it started going wonky, or thereabouts). My assumption off the cuff is it's either a racket since trucking and train and boat has no choice but to buy, or the modern smog requirements for low sulfur and whatever have run the production cost up. At any rate it's annoying but still an insignificant cost compared to the gas engine vehicles I have any interest in.

 

[soccerballtux]

so i'm in search of a new vehicle and due to how much I drive the more MPG it gets the better. I average 25000 or so a year. So I know diesel cars get better mileage however after doing some quick math something isn't adding up

simply going off posted EPA estimated numbers there is no way a diesel car ends up being cheaper to run then the same model running a traditional gas engine.

assuming same initial price (ignoring the fact that the diesel car often retails for more) the difference in MPG between them never seems to make up for the fact that the cost of diesel (at least where I am) is 1$ more then regular unleaded

It only ends up being 1-200$ more, however I would have thought that would not have been the case

so now im failing to see the point. unless people get radically higher MPG numbers on the diesels vs what the manufactures state

the 335d gets 38mpg highway going 85mph after removing the DPF and EGR (34mpg before), and has 430f-lbs of torque available all the time.

Gas doesn't come close.

it's also the last BMW to have fluid-power-steering

 

[tortillasoup]

What puzzles me, and I'm sure if I really wanted to know I could scour enough of the internet to find out why, is that diesel was consistently cheaper than regular unleaded for a very long time(till the mid or late 90's I guess when it started going wonky, or thereabouts). My assumption off the cuff is it's either a racket since trucking and train and boat has no choice but to buy, or the modern smog requirements for low sulfur and whatever have run the production cost up. At any rate it's annoying but still an insignificant cost compared to the gas engine vehicles I have any interest in.

Price of diesel went up after 2006 when they mandated ultra-low sulfur diesel.

 

[Ramses]

Apparently we export a crap load of diesel too as demand for it has, apparently, skyrocketed in the last decade vs gasoline. Both at home and abroad. I wouldn't have guessed that.

 

[MtnMan]

Just scored a deal on an 00 Jetta TDI from a guy that is anal retentive on vehicle maintenance. It is barely broken in at 230,000 on the clock, looks and drives like new. Car was garaged for the first 14 years, only to be moved to the drive when his wife got a new TDI.
I'm impressed with the torque from 1.9L Diesel engine, especially living in the mountains, and at about 46MPG overall I don't really feel the sting of paying 50¢+ per gallon more for fuel.
All the hybrids ain't going to be that 'green' when it comes time to recycle hundreds of pounds of batteries they have.
Gas is cheap now, but does anyone really believe it's going to last. When we're back to $4 gas, my little diesel is going to look even better.

 

[Drako]

Just scored a deal on an 00 Jetta TDI from a guy that is anal retentive on vehicle maintenance. It is barely broken in at 230,000 on the clock, looks and drives like new. Car was garaged for the first 14 years, only to be moved to the drive when his wife got a new TDI.
I'm impressed with the torque from 1.9L Diesel engine, especially living in the mountains, and at about 46MPG overall I don't really feel the sting of paying 50¢+ per gallon more for fuel.
All the hybrids ain't going to be that 'green' when it comes time to recycle hundreds of pounds of batteries they have.
Gas is cheap now, but does anyone really believe it's going to last. When we're back to $4 gas, my little diesel is going to look even better.

The guy put 230,000 miles on it in 2 years?

 

[Yuriman]

Just scored a deal on an 00 Jetta TDI from a guy that is anal retentive on vehicle maintenance. It is barely broken in at 230,000 on the clock, looks and drives like new. Car was garaged for the first 14 years, only to be moved to the drive when his wife got a new TDI.
I'm impressed with the torque from 1.9L Diesel engine, especially living in the mountains, and at about 46MPG overall I don't really feel the sting of paying 50¢+ per gallon more for fuel.
All the hybrids ain't going to be that 'green' when it comes time to recycle hundreds of pounds of batteries they have.
Gas is cheap now, but does anyone really believe it's going to last. When we're back to $4 gas, my little diesel is going to look even better.

I have to say, that's a pretty compelling argument for a TDI.

However, for the record, the hybrid battery in a Honda Insight is ~65lbs and it's essentially made of 120 NiMH D cell batteries. The Prius uses similar cells, but has about 50% more of them. I believe the Civic Hybrid (at least the earlier models) actually had slightly fewer cells, so it was closer to 50lbs of hybrid battery.

IMO, 65lbs of battery isn't all that much. How heavy is the battery in the average truck? How bad are NiMH batteries compared with your typical lead-acid starters?

 

[Ramses]

Just scored a deal on an 00 Jetta TDI from a guy that is anal retentive on vehicle maintenance. It is barely broken in at 230,000 on the clock, looks and drives like new. Car was garaged for the first 14 years, only to be moved to the drive when his wife got a new TDI.
I'm impressed with the torque from 1.9L Diesel engine, especially living in the mountains, and at about 46MPG overall I don't really feel the sting of paying 50¢+ per gallon more for fuel.
All the hybrids ain't going to be that 'green' when it comes time to recycle hundreds of pounds of batteries they have.
Gas is cheap now, but does anyone really believe it's going to last. When we're back to $4 gas, my little diesel is going to look even better.

Congrats man. I thought the TDI was pretty strong too, and it is compared to its forefathers, but after a few weeks it felt slow lol. Everything is relative though. Luckily, unlike a lot of the alternatives, one can pretty effectively increase it's power output without hurting fuel mileage when the time comes. Plus it's about as under the radar as one can get.

 

[Ramses]

The guy put 230,000 miles on it in 2 years?

What he meant was that it was parked in a garage, not sat in a garage unused. That's what Jaguars, Maseratis and Land Rovers do.

 

[Ramses]

Price of diesel went up after 2006 when they mandated ultra-low sulfur diesel.

I noticed yesterday, here anyway, diesel is 20c ish under regular.
Which is the way god and Rudolf Diesel intended. :sneaky:

 

[marincounty]

I noticed yesterday, here anyway, diesel is 20c ish under regular.
Which is the way god and Rudolf Diesel intended. :sneaky:

No, I believe he wanted diesels to run on vegetable oil, not on fossil fuel.

 

[Ramses]

Close enough.

 

[ElFenix]

The guy put 230,000 miles on it in 2 years?

16 years...

 

[MtnMan]

Here diesel is typically within a nickle or two of regular. A couple of fill-ups, the diesel I was pumping was cheaper than the regular.

I get in the mid-40's around town, and a road trip the mileage is in the upper 50's, could probably touch 60 if I drove the speed limit.

I got a sweet deal on a 2000 Jetta that I bought from a friend who is totally anal about taking care of his vehicles. Oil change every 5K with full synthetic diesel rated oil, timing belt and everything done on time. Got a log of every drop of fuel he put in it, and the overall for 230K is 56.2 MPG (mostly highway miles).