Diesel in a gas engine?

[Eli]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

IF as you say, the oil put in 2 cycle engines are LIGHTER than diesel, than you should be able to run a diesel engine on this Oil. To be honest. i really really doubt it. i don't think ANY oils are lighter than diesel. but of course that could just be my ignorance talking.

i'm SURE that diesel is lighter than any motor oil.

Hmm..

Well, the Kinetic Viscosity of AMSOil Series 2000 synthetic 2-cycle oil is 51.02 @ 40C.

The Kinetic Viscosity of #2D diesel fuel is 32.6 - 45.5 @ ~40C.

So you're right, diesel fuel is a bit lighter than 2-cycle oil. But not by much at the viscous end.

 

[StageLeft]

Yeah she's cute. But doing the diesel thing and then wanting to marry you...she can't be a genius

 

[skyking]

You did the right thing. I have used fuel cans in the heavy equipment field, and on the farm in my youth. If you put gas in a can used for diesel, the strangest "worms" of congealed <I have no idea what> form, and clog the heck out of filters in chainsaws, lawnmowers, anything you put that gas into. Thereafter, we established a policy of using a can for only diesel or gas, but not both.

 

[Gyrene]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Yeah she's cute. But doing the diesel thing and then wanting to marry you...she can't be a genius

Hey, at least we're running OJ in our cars now. That's gotta count for something.

 

[NogginBoink]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I would call your dealership for a realistic explaination guys....a little diesel doesn't hurt anything. Marvel mystery oil (basically ATF which is oil with detergents) can be added to the tank....if this doesn't cause any problems neither should diesel....

anyways a little diesel will not hurt your cars....even alot of diesel will not...what would happen at worse is you'd be looking at a fuel filter, new plugs but that would be extreme.

Oh?

A trip around the block in Rome after an accidental fill with Diesel ruined a carbeurator in our VW van several years ago.

Saw it with my own two eyes. I was in the van when we went around the block pouring smoke out the exhaust. I watched them disconnect the fuel filter, drain the diesel (back into the station's underground storage tank for resale, of course).

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: NogginBoink

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I would call your dealership for a realistic explaination guys....a little diesel doesn't hurt anything. Marvel mystery oil (basically ATF which is oil with detergents) can be added to the tank....if this doesn't cause any problems neither should diesel....

anyways a little diesel will not hurt your cars....even alot of diesel will not...what would happen at worse is you'd be looking at a fuel filter, new plugs but that would be extreme.

Oh?

A trip around the block in Rome after an accidental fill with Diesel ruined a carbeurator in our VW van several years ago.

Saw it with my own two eyes. I was in the van when we went around the block pouring smoke out the exhaust. I watched them disconnect the fuel filter, drain the diesel (back into the station's underground storage tank for resale, of course).

#1 you said fill, not a few gallons. I have no doubt smoke and some other 'problems' will happen on a partial fill, however you can drive usually just not optimumly....once the diesel burns through it should be as if the mistake never happened. On all diesel it'd be a miracle if it started.

#2 how did it ruin the carb? What part of the carb was destroyed? Was the blinker fluid checked?

 

[CZroe]

What if you got a little petroleum-based power steering fluid in the oil? Say, a few tablespoons into the average engine...

 

[PowerMacG5]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: KraziKid
Anyone saying that mixing gasoline and diesel fuel is okay are completely wrong. I have been around large diesel engine's all my life, and will tell you with complete confidence that it would not be good for the engine. Yes, diesel engine's have glow plugs but they are only used in the starting process (to ignite during the first strokes), and then the compression ignites the fuel and causes heat (not the other way around. Heat does not cause the diesel to ignite). Diesel is not manufactured to ignite from a spark, while unleaded gasoline is. They will cause problems when mixed and added to a car, even at a 10:1 ratio, which it doubtly was because I doubt her tank was completely empty when she filled it. As Eli said, 12:1 is still super rich in favor of diesel.

Sorry. The heat that makes the diesel combust is from the compression. P1V1 = P2V2.

No, the heat is a byproduct of the diesel combusting under compression. Go talk to any diesel mechanic. The compression causes the ignition of the fuel, which then causes heat, not the other way around.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: KraziKid

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: KraziKid
Anyone saying that mixing gasoline and diesel fuel is okay are completely wrong. I have been around large diesel engine's all my life, and will tell you with complete confidence that it would not be good for the engine. Yes, diesel engine's have glow plugs but they are only used in the starting process (to ignite during the first strokes), and then the compression ignites the fuel and causes heat (not the other way around. Heat does not cause the diesel to ignite). Diesel is not manufactured to ignite from a spark, while unleaded gasoline is. They will cause problems when mixed and added to a car, even at a 10:1 ratio, which it doubtly was because I doubt her tank was completely empty when she filled it. As Eli said, 12:1 is still super rich in favor of diesel.

Sorry. The heat that makes the diesel combust is from the compression. P1V1 = P2V2.

No, the heat is a byproduct of the diesel combusting under compression. Go talk to any diesel mechanic. The compression causes the ignition of the fuel, which then causes heat, not the other way around.

sorry but you are wrong krazikid. Increase Pressure = Increase heat. heat is NOT a by product of the combustion but of the compression.

 

[PowerMacG5]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: KraziKid

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: KraziKid
Anyone saying that mixing gasoline and diesel fuel is okay are completely wrong. I have been around large diesel engine's all my life, and will tell you with complete confidence that it would not be good for the engine. Yes, diesel engine's have glow plugs but they are only used in the starting process (to ignite during the first strokes), and then the compression ignites the fuel and causes heat (not the other way around. Heat does not cause the diesel to ignite). Diesel is not manufactured to ignite from a spark, while unleaded gasoline is. They will cause problems when mixed and added to a car, even at a 10:1 ratio, which it doubtly was because I doubt her tank was completely empty when she filled it. As Eli said, 12:1 is still super rich in favor of diesel.

Sorry. The heat that makes the diesel combust is from the compression. P1V1 = P2V2.

No, the heat is a byproduct of the diesel combusting under compression. Go talk to any diesel mechanic. The compression causes the ignition of the fuel, which then causes heat, not the other way around.

sorry but you are wrong krazikid. Increase Pressure = Increase heat. heat is NOT a by product of the combustion but of the compression.

This is what I am saying. That the compression causes the diesel to ignite, which then causes the heat. If you don't believe me, go ask a certified diesel mechanic.

 

[slag]

If the compression is what combusts the diesel, then why are there glow plugs?


hmmmm??

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: KraziKid

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: KraziKid

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: KraziKid
Anyone saying that mixing gasoline and diesel fuel is okay are completely wrong. I have been around large diesel engine's all my life, and will tell you with complete confidence that it would not be good for the engine. Yes, diesel engine's have glow plugs but they are only used in the starting process (to ignite during the first strokes), and then the compression ignites the fuel and causes heat (not the other way around. Heat does not cause the diesel to ignite). Diesel is not manufactured to ignite from a spark, while unleaded gasoline is. They will cause problems when mixed and added to a car, even at a 10:1 ratio, which it doubtly was because I doubt her tank was completely empty when she filled it. As Eli said, 12:1 is still super rich in favor of diesel.

Sorry. The heat that makes the diesel combust is from the compression. P1V1 = P2V2.

No, the heat is a byproduct of the diesel combusting under compression. Go talk to any diesel mechanic. The compression causes the ignition of the fuel, which then causes heat, not the other way around.

sorry but you are wrong krazikid. Increase Pressure = Increase heat. heat is NOT a by product of the combustion but of the compression.

This is what I am saying. That the compression causes the diesel to ignite, which then causes the heat. If you don't believe me, go ask a certified diesel mechanic.

there are also glow plugs.

but let's do this real quick.

increased pressure = increased heat. one is not a by product of the other. they are equal, the same.

increased pressure increases the combustibility of the diesel fuel. is heat a by product of combustion? well, only in that the combustion releases more heat than what was there initially.

increase pressure = increase heat. and then you have a combustion (small explosion) released energy which btw increases pressure in the chamber driving the piston down. so again, increased pressure = increased temperature.

neither is a byproduct of the other.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: slag
If the compression is what combusts the diesel, then why are there glow plugs?


hmmmm??

Glow plugs are only used for starting...they are not equivalent to sparkplugs.

Please people know what you are talking about rather than pieceing odds and ends together.

Now the compression versus heat for the subsequent firing of the cylinders is sort of a moot point as without either you won't get anywhere.....

Each firing does contribute heat, but so does compression....

Easy test would be to fire something at an equal temp in a cylinder and just compress and release the air in another cylinder, after 500 repetitions take each's temp.

 

[MattCo]

So did the car blow up after you siphoned and refilled it or what?

I was thinking of putting Soy Sauce in my WRX to see if that would add horsepower... anyone know?

-MC

 

[Howard]

Christ, people! If you compress a gas it will heat up! Don't you remember your ideal gas laws???

slag - glow plugs are only used to aid in cold starting, and I think there are some diesel engines that don't use glow plugs.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: KraziKid

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: KraziKid
Anyone saying that mixing gasoline and diesel fuel is okay are completely wrong. I have been around large diesel engine's all my life, and will tell you with complete confidence that it would not be good for the engine. Yes, diesel engine's have glow plugs but they are only used in the starting process (to ignite during the first strokes), and then the compression ignites the fuel and causes heat (not the other way around. Heat does not cause the diesel to ignite). Diesel is not manufactured to ignite from a spark, while unleaded gasoline is. They will cause problems when mixed and added to a car, even at a 10:1 ratio, which it doubtly was because I doubt her tank was completely empty when she filled it. As Eli said, 12:1 is still super rich in favor of diesel.

Sorry. The heat that makes the diesel combust is from the compression. P1V1 = P2V2.

No, the heat is a byproduct of the diesel combusting under compression. Go talk to any diesel mechanic. The compression causes the ignition of the fuel, which then causes heat, not the other way around.

If what you say is true, what causes detonation in gas engines?

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: Howard
Christ, people! If you compress a gas it will heat up! Don't you remember your ideal gas laws???

slag - glow plugs are only used to aid in cold starting, and I think there are some diesel engines that don't use glow plugs.

850C

and many of the diesel pushers don't use glow plugs

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

#1 you said fill, not a few gallons. I have no doubt smoke and some other 'problems' will happen on a partial fill, however you can drive usually just not optimumly....once the diesel burns through it should be as if the mistake never happened. On all diesel it'd be a miracle if it started.

#2 how did it ruin the carb? What part of the carb was destroyed? Was the blinker fluid checked?

Get over it. A gallon in 10 gallons is a significant ratio. There is far more .. common sense.. saying that it would cause problems than not.

Originally posted by: CZroe
What if you got a little petroleum-based power steering fluid in the oil? Say, a few tablespoons into the average engine...

I'd try to avoid it, but it probably isn't going to hurt anything really.

Originally posted by: KraziKid
No, the heat is a byproduct of the diesel combusting under compression. Go talk to any diesel mechanic. The compression causes the ignition of the fuel, which then causes heat, not the other way around.

Sorry bud, but you've got it backwards. The air inside the engine is compressed. This causes it to heat up considerably. The diesel is then injected into the hot, compressed air, causing it to spontaneously ignite.

Originally posted by: slag
If the compression is what combusts the diesel, then why are there glow plugs?


hmmmm??

A diesel engine is a compression engine. Many diesels don't have glow plugs. Their only purpose is to aid in cold starting.

 

[Howard]

I hope we got this straightened out...

Damn it, Eli, why are you and I always in the same engine threads?

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: alkemyst

#1 you said fill, not a few gallons. I have no doubt smoke and some other 'problems' will happen on a partial fill, however you can drive usually just not optimumly....once the diesel burns through it should be as if the mistake never happened. On all diesel it'd be a miracle if it started.

#2 how did it ruin the carb? What part of the carb was destroyed? Was the blinker fluid checked?

Get over it. A gallon in 10 gallons is a significant ratio. There is far more .. common sense.. saying that it would cause problems than not

Common sense is common sense....what really is and what really is, is another matter....however, diesel in a gas tank in small amounts (gallon in a 10 gallon tank), will doubtfully cause long term effects.

Here are links of people in the same boat....not one link showed any problems.:

http://pub145.ezboard.com/fgunsandroversfrm12.showMessage?topicID=84.topic

http://www.venturers.org/web/Ridge/diesel.shtml

http://pub145.ezboard.com/fgunsandroversfrm18.showMessage?topicID=93.topic

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=KZ_49.1055%24Ce.50461%40bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Ddiesel%2Bin%2Bgas%2Btank%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3DKZ_49.1055%2524Ce.50461%2540bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com%26rnum%3D1

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=amsi9q%248grl1%241%40ID-110527.news.dfncis.de&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Ddiesel%2Bin%2Bgas%2Btank%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3Damsi9q%25248grl1%25241%2540ID-110527.news.dfncis.de%26rnum%3D2

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=009416B9.404FA7A0%40wystan.bsd.uchicago.edu&rnum=6&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Ddiesel%2Bin%2Bgas%2Btank%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3D009416B9.404FA7A0%2540wystan.bsd.uchicago.edu%26rnum%3D6

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=b90602c6.0107010550.bfee0e8%40posting.google.com&rnum=7&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Ddiesel%2Bin%2Bgas%2Btank%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3Db90602c6.0107010550.bfee0e8%2540posting.google.co

I know I have a book somewhere here that talks about this same problem, and another one that mentions putting Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas tank making a solution similar to diesel fuel or something.

However, like I said, all up your local service shop that deals with diesel trucks and cars and ask them.