Diet & Exercise Won't Work On Obese People,...

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tommo123

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2005
2,617
48
91
why? for a few weeks i only did a little cardio as i wasnt fit enough for more. and that was just walking. it took a while to build up to more. after 2 months i was getting hunger pangs to increased to 1500cal/day and then to 2000 as my metabolism had increased too much to stick to 1000/day only

the amount i did in the gym increased as my capability/fitness increased. never exhaused myself, just got a good sweat on
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Haha. Lock an obese person in a room, feed him ~1500-2000 calories a day for 3-4 months, and watch what happens to him.
He'll get even bigger, most likely. I've gone weeks at a time on around 1000 calories/day, maybe less, when depressed and sedentary.
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,665
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If you get fat enough, it actually becomes pretty difficult to exercise. You try strapping on a 150 pound fat suit and see if you can still run an 8 minute mile.

A 350 pound person should burn 150-200 calories per mile WALKING.

Proper diet and 1-2 long walks a day is all it takes.

I found it it easier t odrop from 240 to 220 than 220 to 200.
 

PenguinPower

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2002
2,538
15
81
why? for a few weeks i only did a little cardio as i wasnt fit enough for more. and that was just walking. it took a while to build up to more. after 2 months i was getting hunger pangs to increased to 1500cal/day and then to 2000 as my metabolism had increased too much to stick to 1000/day only

the amount i did in the gym increased as my capability/fitness increased. never exhaused myself, just got a good sweat on

Because you're eating ~1500 below your BMR at that weight and exercising on top of it. At that intake you aren't eating enough to sustain yourself.

Read up on the Minnesota Starvation Experiment.
 

SlitheryDee

Lifer
Feb 2, 2005
17,252
19
81
He'll get even bigger, most likely. I've gone weeks at a time on around 1000 calories/day, maybe less, when depressed and sedentary.

There are some who might. They're the ones who have the real body chemistry problems. Out of every hundred obese people there might be 5 of those though. If I were a betting man, I'd bet on the guy locked in a room being fed 1500 calories a day losing at least a pound every seven days even if he's sedentary and doing absolutely nothing. That's true because he will be operating on at least a 500 calorie deficit per day. If he weighs over 350 lbs, he'll be operating at around a 1000 calorie deficit per day.

Remember, that's if he does absolutely nothing all day. Even getting out of bed to go retrieve the food plate that someone slides under his door adds to that calorie deficit.

I don't trust people who say that they only ate X number of calories for weeks and still didn't lose weight. Unless you were actually recording everything you ate when you ate it, you probably aren't even in the ballpark of the correct number. It never feels like you ate as much as you actually did. I remember when I was dieting seriously I would give myself a cheat day on sundays. I would still record what I ate on those days, but I wouldn't hold back on any kind of food. I remember some of those sundays coming to 7000-8000 calories in a single day! If you had asked me what I ate on those days without letting me see the calorie counts I might have guessed ~3000 calories max. That's what really clued me in on how I could "feel" like I hadn't eaten much, but still be packing on incredible amounts of weight.

The same phenomenon often works in the opposite way for naturally skinny folk. I can't tell you how many times I've seen skinny people brag about how much they ate every day while never gaining weight, only to actually watch them leave food on their plates at restaurants, declaring they're sooo full. Most of those guys would be puking by midday if they ate everything I did on those aforementioned cheat sundays. No, for most people the numbers add up. They just have no real sense of the numbers because they never bother to track them.
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
106
People are obese because they eat too many carbs. Obviously far too many. Eat more animal fat and animal protein, and cut the sugars and the starches. All carbs convert to sugar either instantly, or very quickly. And if the sugar isnt not used immediately, it gets turned to fat.

The real problem is that people do not understand this very simple biological process, due in large part to the profitability of the sugar industry. Companies that makes billions selling sugar can afford to spend a few million pumping out propaganda and buying "doctors" and all sorts of experts to convince people they need to eat low fat diets. lol. It is sick how easily people can be misled.
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
People are obese because they eat too many carbs. Obviously far too many. Eat more animal fat and animal protein, and cut the sugars and the starches. All carbs convert to sugar either instantly, or very quickly. And if the sugar isnt not used immediately, it gets turned to fat.

The real problem is that people do not understand this very simple biological process, due in large part to the profitability of the sugar industry. Companies that makes billions selling sugar can afford to spend a few million pumping out propaganda and buying "doctors" and all sorts of experts to convince people they need to eat low fat diets. lol. It is sick how easily people can be misled.

False.

People are fat because they eat too much.
 

PenguinPower

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2002
2,538
15
81
People are obese because they eat too many carbs. Obviously far too many. Eat more animal fat and animal protein, and cut the sugars and the starches. All carbs convert to sugar either instantly, or very quickly. And if the sugar isnt not used immediately, it gets turned to fat.

The real problem is that people do not understand this very simple biological process, due in large part to the profitability of the sugar industry. Companies that makes billions selling sugar can afford to spend a few million pumping out propaganda and buying "doctors" and all sorts of experts to convince people they need to eat low fat diets. lol. It is sick how easily people can be misled.

People are obese because they eat too many calories. If you eat 500 calories above maintenance routinely, you are going to gain weight regardless of whether it is 500 calories of pasta or 500 calories of steak.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
There are some who might. They're the ones who have the real body chemistry problems.
How many people who are obese for a long period of time won't? Obesity is going to be the cause more often than the effect, with starvation diets making it worse over time. Staying overweight, where that becomes your body's "normal" is what allows it happen in the first place. If it is say 1/20 people, the number of them that are going to have a different underlying problem is going to be well under 1/100 of that set of people, and probably more like under 1/1000. The rest will have the ability to function with low caloric intake because of their bodies being so used to being sedentary and malnourished, and related problems will not have have come up were it not for that. It's not that we function well, but that, being used to it, we can put on a show of seeming to.
 
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Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
12,603
9
81
I don't trust people who say that they only ate X number of calories for weeks and still didn't lose weight. Unless you were actually recording everything you ate when you ate it, you probably aren't even in the ballpark of the correct number. It never feels like you ate as much as you actually did. I remember when I was dieting seriously I would give myself a cheat day on sundays. I would still record what I ate on those days, but I wouldn't hold back on any kind of food. I remember some of those sundays coming to 7000-8000 calories in a single day! If you had asked me what I ate on those days without letting me see the calorie counts I might have guessed ~3000 calories max. That's what really clued me in on how I could "feel" like I hadn't eaten much, but still be packing on incredible amounts of weight.

Yeah I see that... "i dieted for two weeks and only ate lettuce + *arbitrary healthy food* and lost nothing!!"

Core problem is stupidity. They cant add/do basic math so they cant calorie count. Chicken is x calories per 100g, you ate 275g how much calories is that?? Durrrrr they haven't got a fucking clue and thats if they even weighed the thing to begin with and didn't just hold it in their hand and guess the weight.

Plus they'll gorge on weight watchers stuff or anything that's labelled "healthy" without actually reading the goddamn nutritional info on the back. "nutsh are gud for you rite guise???" Whilst eating a 500g bag of almonds totaling nearly 3000 calories.

Stupidity, core issue!
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
People are obese because they eat too many calories. If you eat 500 calories above maintenance routinely, you are going to gain weight regardless of whether it is 500 calories of pasta or 500 calories of steak.
Outside of highly active athletes, most people will be sick long before they could eat 5kcal of any kind of meat. Meanwhile, 5kcal of mostly carbs is easy, so long as it is spread out.

Lacking fiber, not taking up much volume, and lacking much in the way of useful nutrients, many foods full of refined carbs make it easy to eat 2+kcal in a sitting, but then be hungry in an hour. Or, constantly snack, and never be sated. Not merely hungry, but feeling like you had basically nothing to eat in the first place, and only marginally able to function, mentally. Meanwhile, a <1kcal salad (not that you can't make one well over that ) will not cause that. In fact, basically nothing will, at least not to enough of an extent to get really fat, except tons of sugar and fat.

Thus, people get fat due to eating too many carbs (just fat isn't appetizing, at least most people, but is mixed with other foods, usually white wheat flour, if in any large quantity). This is not something new. Given lots of flour in their rations, and too little else of note in their diet but fat, Native Americans began this country's obesity problem, long ago. With a good diet, you will be full and have sufficient energy without eating obscene amounts of carbs. Eat lots of refined carbs, and you'll be back for more soon. If not, you are the exception, not the rule.

False.

People are fat because they eat too much.
You are contradicting yourself. If sm625's post is false, then your statement following, "False," must also be false. That, the point went *woosh* past you (hint: why is someone eating too much?).
 

PenguinPower

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2002
2,538
15
81
Outside of highly active athletes, most people will be sick long before they could eat 5kcal of any kind of meat. Meanwhile, 5kcal of mostly carbs is easy, so long as it is spread out.

Lacking fiber, not taking up much volume, and lacking much in the way of useful nutrients, many foods full of refined carbs make it easy to eat 2+kcal in a sitting, but then be hungry in an hour. Or, constantly snack, and never be sated. Not merely hungry, but feeling like you had basically nothing to eat in the first place, and only marginally able to function, mentally. Meanwhile, a <1kcal salad (not that you can't make one well over that ) will not cause that. In fact, basically nothing will, at least not to enough of an extent to get really fat, except tons of sugar and fat.

Thus, people get fat due to eating too many carbs (just fat isn't appetizing, at least most people, but is mixed with other foods, usually white wheat flour, if in any large quantity). This is not something new. Given lots of flour in their rations, and too little else of note in their diet but fat, Native Americans began this country's obesity problem, long ago. With a good diet, you will be full and have sufficient energy without eating obscene amounts of carbs. Eat lots of refined carbs, and you'll be back for more soon. If not, you are the exception, not the rule.

First, 5kcal is about 1.7grams of meat. I assume you mean 500kcal which is equivalent to 500 Calories.

Second, 500kcal of meat is about a 6oz ribeye cooked. Easy for anyone to down.

Third, completely agree that simple carbs are much easier to overindulge on. That wasn't what the poster I quoted said.

Fourth, just fat can be appetizing. Love me some olive oil and vinegar dressing on my <1000kcal shredded iceberg salads. Hell, I could snack on peanuts, almonds, walnuts and cashews all day and easily eat more than I could eating simple carbs.

Fifth, you are still saying that people get fat by consuming too many calories. The mechanism driving people to over consume may be blamed on simple carbs; however, I think that it boils down to willpower or lack thereof.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Those attitudes can be blamed partly on the fat acceptance movement. I bet most people's family and friends could be counted on for positive support if the fat person wanted to lose weight. But the Facebook campaigns by digusting people who repost every picture of a land whale with some idiotic saying like "A real man loves a woman with curves" have really brought out the trolls.

The problem is people have distorted body images. They see things and don't understand the difference between obesity and what a curvy woman looks like (body type similar to Kate Upton, for example). I actually read a study that said a very high percentage of overweight people viewed themselves as average size. It is ridiculous.


There is only one way to truly motivate people: you shame them until they hate their body so much they accept the minor discomfort of not stuffing their fat faces quite as much. You have to counter the entire "big is beautiful" BS. Health facts won't do anything. People only change when they really want to, and nobody who thinks they are fine wants to change.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
The problem is people have distorted body images. They see things and don't understand the difference between obesity and what a curvy woman looks like (body type similar to Kate Upton, for example). I actually read a study that said a very high percentage of overweight people viewed themselves as average size. It is ridiculous.


There is only one way to truly motivate people: you shame them until they hate their body so much they accept the minor discomfort of not stuffing their fat faces quite as much. You have to counter the entire "big is beautiful" BS. Health facts won't do anything. People only change when they really want to, and nobody who thinks they are fine wants to change.

Drivers ed classes still show those Blood on the Highway videos, health classes should show videos of diabetics having their feet amputated.
 

mammador

Platinum Member
Dec 9, 2010
2,128
1
76
Depends...very few are obese for non-dietary reasons...

FOr those who are, don't eat KFC or fast food, simple....

forced exercise and banning from fast food outlets would suffice...
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
First, 5kcal is about 1.7grams of meat. I assume you mean 500kcal which is equivalent to 500 Calories.

Second, 500kcal of meat is about a 6oz ribeye cooked. Easy for anyone to down.
I meant like 100oz of steak. I was unaware the measure was called kcal, before right now, and looking it up on Wikipedia, and was using the k generically, as in instead of typing, ",000 ," since it's always just, "Calorie," otherwise (after high school, the g/C ones may as well cease to exist ). My apologies.


Most anyone could, if spread through the day, eat 5,000 calories of refined carbs. They're not filling, they don't give long-term energy, they do no good for your overall health (unless also eaten with plenty of other things, in which case you can't eat too much, because the other stuff will fill you)...but they can and will mostly go straight to fat (and reduced insulin response), if eaten more than occasionally.

Third, completely agree that simple carbs are much easier to overindulge on. That wasn't what the poster I quoted said.
The other poster, rather correctly, noted that people eat too many carbs, and that both gets them fat and keeps them fat. It's mostly carbs because that's the easiest way to get there. It's not a matter of some indulgance, as it is a constant diet. Sweet cereal here, cookies there, sandwich that's 80% bread there, big fries with lunch, half a gallon or more of sugar water drinks a day...

Unless you force yourself, it would be difficult to get a great overabundance of calories from real food, because you just won't have room, unless all you do is hang out at a buffet all day, and don't exercise (exercise, as little as walking, can reduce the feeling of hunger).

Fourth, just fat can be appetizing. Love me some olive oil and vinegar dressing on my <1000kcal shredded iceberg salads. Hell, I could snack on peanuts, almonds, walnuts and cashews all day and easily eat more than I could eating simple carbs.
That's not just fat. Just fat = bottle of oil, or tub of lard.

Fifth, you are still saying that people get fat by consuming too many calories. The mechanism driving people to over consume may be blamed on simple carbs
Blame thermodynamics for that one.
however, I think that it boils down to willpower or lack thereof.
We are animals, and we only have so much of any given chemicals we may need to stave off urges at any time. Being trained from children to consider unhealthy food as "good" food, the willpower will not be there for many, if not most. Willpower itself is a finite resource at any time, and for any given need, is limited in any given person, to varying amounts.

The quitting smoking analogy is quite apt. There's no need to, "believe," it. We know that dopamine gets released with the mere suggestion of a liked food, and eating it causes even greater reactions. That's one of the reasons some people overeat when they are depressed. However, what we have in the U.S. is a case where those foods are very bad for you, and if eaten until feeling full at a meal, will be way too much. Changing to eating salads and nuts or whatever is not merely like having an addict go cold turkey, it is that. Some people can just up and do that; some can't.

That doesn't mean those that can't are helpless, but that just saying, "count calories," or, "don't eat so much," isn't going to work, for most of the younger generation in the U.S. that are fat (and have been since their earliest memories!), and some of the older, even those actually willing. If they can pull it off, they'll just gain it back, by not changing their habits enough in the process (as happens all the time). They're conditioned from a young age, possibly mere months old, to only eat junk (it's all learned). Long-term changes in what and how they eat are going to be needed to be able to keep it off, to gradually learn to be satisfied by foods that aren't unhealthy, and eating practices that aren't unhealthy; and/or to replace the response from eating with another (like how some people get really into exercising after they lose weight--they're trading one rush for another).

Drivers ed classes still show those Blood on the Highway videos, health classes should show videos of diabetics having their feet amputated.
They'll probably be desensitized to it, soon, anyway. All those problems are already being made into normal, and parents want acceptance all-around to minimize their work. How do you make it effective, then? I'd be all for it anyway, I just see it going down like faces of meth--lots of cringing by onlookers, but nobody who might try meth really giving a damn.
 
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WhoBeDaPlaya

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2000
7,414
401
126
Ok on a more serious note, obviously if you weigh a lot it takes a lot less force/exercise/inertia/resistance or however the hell you want to call it to expense those stored up calories. The problem is these people keep eating more and more to replace them.
That's what I don't get about fat people whining. When you're fat you have two advantages :
1) Higher BMR / TDEE (so you can still gorge your a*s, just a little more reasonably)
2) Less time/"effort" needed to burn a given number of calories

I'm definitely a fatty (6", 220lbs, ~23% BF), but as long as I keep BMR < <my intake> < TDEE, I lose 1.5-2lbs/week steadily.
Just need to throw in some resistance training (~every other day) and some cardio for overall fitness, and I'm golden.

It's hard to exercise your way to fitness (eg. 1 McD french fry = elliptical for ~1/2 hour), so it's easier to just attach a caloric price-tag to foods and you'll naturally pick what's "cheaper".
You can still eat junk everyday, just have to stick to your calorie budget. It's quite easy to track what you're eating with sites like MyFitnessPal, etc.

Of course, I do understand edge-cases (genetic disorders, folks with pre-existing debilitating conditions (joint pains, etc.))

Plus they'll gorge on weight watchers stuff or anything that's labelled "healthy" without actually reading the goddamn nutritional info on the back. "nutsh are gud for you rite guise???" Whilst eating a 500g bag of almonds totaling nearly 3000 calories.
^ This. I don't give a damn (to a rough extent) whether a food item is "healthy" or "unhealthy"; as long as it is within my caloric allowance, I'll indulge.
Don't get started on the typical exercise / food myths (eg. eating fat -> fat, don't eat before sleeping, resistance training -> Arnold, crashing waaay below BMR, not trying to maintain muscle mass while cutting, etc.)
People just need to a do a couple of hours of research. Shamless plug, but AT Health and Fitness has some pretty helpful people / solid info.
 
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Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
15,682
13
81
www.markbetz.net
Thought I'd give you guys an update since I just got back from the doc. Still walking the 2 miles with the dogs every night. No other real changes in diet plus or minus. Now clocked in at 210 pounds (they weighed me on two different scales because I expressed disbelief; I had actually though I gained a few). So far that's 55 lbs down from walking two miles a night and cutting sugar from my coffee.
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
Thought I'd give you guys an update since I just got back from the doc. Still walking the 2 miles with the dogs every night. No other real changes in diet plus or minus. Now clocked in at 210 pounds (they weighed me on two different scales because I expressed disbelief; I had actually though I gained a few). So far that's 55 lbs down from walking two miles a night and cutting sugar from my coffee.

Would you like to buy my diet pills? They do everything a magic pill should do. They give you energy, reduce appetite, and cause a weird desire to clean and organize things. No joke, these things actually work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine

Here's more information about my product:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xczm9g_ride-the-snake_fun

The only catch is you would need to drive to Washington state to buy it from me. You know, typical government red tape BS. Something about sending stuff over state lines through the postal system. Blah blah blah.
 

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,709
8
81
Fatties are completely controlled by food. They will believe anything which does not criticize their own behavior and gives them the pass to continue consuming enough food by themselves to feed a whole family.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,525
27,829
136
Thought I'd give you guys an update since I just got back from the doc. Still walking the 2 miles with the dogs every night. No other real changes in diet plus or minus. Now clocked in at 210 pounds (they weighed me on two different scales because I expressed disbelief; I had actually though I gained a few). So far that's 55 lbs down from walking two miles a night and cutting sugar from my coffee.
Good for you!
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
Argh, I think my body is either a perpetual motion device, or my TDEE is extremely skewed.

At 190 and calculated a TDEE of 2400 calories. I lift heavy alternating days, I run 15 miles a week, I do boxing twice a week, and I somehow I managed to gain weight while eating less than 2000 calories a day.

What the hell. I'm not lying or anything either, I literally weigh every single thing that goes into my body and enter it into MFP.
 
Feb 24, 2001
14,550
4
81
Argh, I think my body is either a perpetual motion device, or my TDEE is extremely skewed.

At 190 and calculated a TDEE of 2400 calories. I lift heavy alternating days, I run 15 miles a week, I do boxing twice a week, and I somehow I managed to gain weight while eating less than 2000 calories a day.

What the hell. I'm not lying or anything either, I literally weigh every single thing that goes into my body and enter it into MFP.

Maybe you are gaining muscle mass but losing fat?
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
15,682
13
81
www.markbetz.net
Would you like to buy my diet pills? They do everything a magic pill should do. They give you energy, reduce appetite, and cause a weird desire to clean and organize things. No joke, these things actually work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine

Here's more information about my product:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xczm9g_ride-the-snake_fun

The only catch is you would need to drive to Washington state to buy it from me. You know, typical government red tape BS. Something about sending stuff over state lines through the postal system. Blah blah blah.

Thanks for the offer. My weight's fine now, so sure, yeah, I'll take a dozen.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
15,682
13
81
www.markbetz.net
Argh, I think my body is either a perpetual motion device, or my TDEE is extremely skewed.

At 190 and calculated a TDEE of 2400 calories. I lift heavy alternating days, I run 15 miles a week, I do boxing twice a week, and I somehow I managed to gain weight while eating less than 2000 calories a day.

What the hell. I'm not lying or anything either, I literally weigh every single thing that goes into my body and enter it into MFP.

If you're lifting you may be building tissue that is heavier than fat, so maybe that accounts for it.
 
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