Digital Camera: Zoom or Resolution - which is better?

[rocketbubba]

I'm looking to spend <$300 on a digicam. I've looked at some at various stores and I'm not impressed with 3x optical zoom. If I'm at a ball game I'd like to be able to zoom in a little bit. Some have told me to buy a high resolution camera (6 MP if possible) where you can dig into the digital zoom a little bit and some have recommended buying one of the more affordable 4 MP cameras with a nice zoom (10x or better). I have never and don't plan to blow up a picture larger than 8x10 so I'm wondering if I'd really need to extra megapixels. It's all about usefulness to me.

Looking at two cameras that get good reviews at Steves and other places:

Minolta Z2 - 4 MP with a 10x zoom (and a $50 rebate!)

or

Fuji E550 - 6 MP with a 4x zoom

By the way, I know people on this forum and elsewhere love Canons and I'm sure they're great, but I can't find one in this price range with a decent zoom. I was considering a 5 MP A95 because it uses CF cards and AA batteries, but it only has a 3x zoom.

Any thoughts out there? Thanks for any input!

 

[kini62]

Digital Zoom = ruined photos. Do not use digital zoom. All it does is enlarge the pixels and ruin the detail of the photo. Do any "zooming" via cropping in editing software.

That said, the 4mp with 10x zoom will get you alot closer than the 6mp with 4x zoom and cropping. My camera is a Sony DSC-828 with a 7x zoom. Sony has a "smart" digital zoom that essentially does in camera cropping. My camera is 8mp. At 5mp I can get the equivalent of about 10x zoom using the smart zoom. Or I could just use the camera at 8mp and 7x zoom and crop to the same zoom level. It works the same either way.

Does the Minolta have an image stablizer? 10x can be pretty shaky handheld. No matter though, go for the Minolta. 4mp can make 8x10s no problem.

 

[imported_whatever]

Originally posted by: kini62
Digital Zoom = ruined photos. Do not use digital zoom. All it does is enlarge the pixels and ruin the detail of the photo. Do any "zooming" via cropping in editing software.

QFT. Disable Digital Zoom on any camera you buy that has it - it just makes the pictures look like ass.

 

[Bonesdad]

If you never plan to print a pic at 8x10, then 4MP is fine. Actually, 4MP will get you a nice 8x10...get the zoom camera, as long as it's 10X OPTICAL zoom.

 

[Todd33]

I got the 4MP 10X Kodak. It has slow focus times (due to the added lenes?), but it's a good camera and does great zooming outdoors.

 

[Dman877]

I just bought a fuji dgicam on newegg, S5100 (240 after mail in rebate) with 10x zoom and 4 mp and I like it. I don't print photo's so anything over 16x12 res is sort of wasted for me. Do you plan on printing these photos? IIRC printing 4mp is ok up to 8x10.

 

[corkyg]

To get in close, always use optical zoom - digital Z is simply cropping. That's OK when you want a piece of a 8 to 11 megapixel image.

There are some good, reasonable 10X zooms out there close to your price range. This is one of the best:

C-750Z

 

[Todd33]

Digital zoom is not cropping, it interpolation. This is basically approximating the pixels between he real pixels and thus blurring the image. It looks like ass, as it should.

 

[Ken90630]

I'm in the same sitch as RocketBubba -- looking for a digital camera with better than the run-of-the-mill 3X optical zoom.

If you guys don't mind me hijacking this thread briefly, what're some good review sites out there? I'm a total newb when it comes to digital cameras, and I'd like to read some credible reviews on some of the cams that are out there right now.

 

[corkyg]

Originally posted by: Todd33
Digital zoom is not cropping, it interpolation. This is basically approximating the pixels between he real pixels and thus blurring the image. It looks like ass, as it should.

Whatever - it amounts to extracting a smaller area of pixels, then spreading them out to fill the frame space - the result is bigger pixels, and that looks like, and is, lower resolution. I only meant it had the same relative effect as cropping - but a bit worse.

 

[rocketbubba]

Thanks for all the input so far everybody! The website I've been using the most is Steve's Digicams. Both cameras I listed are on their best cameras list. Here are the links:

Minolta Z2 4 MP w/ 10x optical zoom:
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/z2.html

Fuji E550 6 MP w/ 4x optical zoom:
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/fuji_e550.html

Right now I'm leaning toward the Minolta for several reasons. Besides the zoom, it uses AA batteries and SD memory cards. I don't like the little LCD but I do like that you can see it through the viewfinder. And, right now it has a $50 rebate bringing down to around $210!

By the way, Minolta also makes a Z3 model with 12x zoom and an anti-shake feature for a little bit more $$, but Steve's gave it a mixed review. Here's the link:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/z3.html

As for digital zoom, I don't ever plan to use it but I was thinking that in a pinch it could be used on a camera with lots of megapixels.

Overall I'd say that 90% of the time I'd be shooting indoor shots of family and etc. so the zoom wouldn't be quite as important (macro would be handy and both have a decent macro). It's the other 10% of the time that I'd be outdoors or in an auditorium and could use the zoom that I'm thinking about.

Thanks again for the advice! Any other thoughts are appreciated.

 

[BenSkywalker]

I know you didn't mention it, but the Canon S1 IS is an excellent big zoom camera and unlike the Minolta it is stabilized(makes a big difference). It is lower on the MP side(3MP), but Steve seemed to like it a lot. Not trying to force another option on to you, I was just in pretty much the same boat you were and looked all over reading through all the reviews and decided on the S1 IS and have been extremely pleased with it.

 

[robcy]

I would vote for the minolta. If the most you will print is 8x10, then 6mp is overkill, and the Optical zoom will be the diffrence maker.

 

[LED]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
I know you didn't mention it, but the Canon S1 IS is an excellent big zoom camera and unlike the Minolta it is stabilized(makes a big difference). It is lower on the MP side(3MP), but Steve seemed to like it a lot. Not trying to force another option on to you, I was just in pretty much the same boat you were and looked all over reading through all the reviews and decided on the S1 IS and have been extremely pleased with it.

Same Here :heart:

 

[Zepper]

You can get the same "telephoto" results with a 4MP and 10xOZ as you could with a 6MP and 6.6xOZ (with cropping and enlarging - not DZ). Also be aware that you can't use a 10x zoom handheld unless it has electronic stabilizing (even then not as good as on tripod). Must use tripod etc. to get clear pix. I think there is a Minolta 5MP and 8xOZ (the Z20 I think) that would equal the 4x10 by using cropping and enlarging.
. You might want to consider a 5MP by 3 or 4x OZ camera that has auxiliary lenses available. It's a lot easier and less expensive to make a really fine 3 or 4X OZ lens than the extreme range lenses and you can still have high tele lens if/when you need it.

.bh.

 

[rocketbubba]

I appreciate the input because I've never really used a long zoom camera before. So is the 10x zoom unusable unless I use a tripod? I'm thinking of a situation like sitting in the stands at a baseball game and trying to zoom in on a player a good ways off. Would I be better off with less zoom? I guess I'm wondering if the 6 MP and a 4x OZ (atleast it's better than 3x) might be more practical. I plan to get a tripod sometime down the line, but I'd like to think I could use the zoom without it if possible. Thanks.

 

[Chaotic42]

I really liked my Z2. It was a bit awkward to use, but the pictures that I took got compliments on clarity and sharpness. The optical zoom is awesome on that, but remember that if your hands shake at 10x, you're in for some blur.

 

[Zepper]

You can't get really sharp pix at 10x handheld - anything more than 3x is very hard to handhold but can be compensated for somewhat with a high shutter speed - also need to learn breath control like long range shooters. Using a cable or timed release helps too.
. 4x zoom at 6MP can give you the same quality pic as 6x zoom at 4MP (or 8x at 3MP or 12x at 2MP) by using cropping/enlarging - it just depends on the size of the final product that you need. If you need 8x10s or larger of your long shots then you'll need the long lens (and a tripod or other support) to get the sharpest pix. And then you may not need to be able to make out the hairs on a dog at 100 yards either - depends on what you can tolerate.
. I think the same guy that did the Joy of Photography books recently put out a Joy of Digital Photography book. I intend to look for it the next time I'm near a good sized bookstore.

.bh.

 

[Dman877]

I am able to get clear pics with my fuji at 10X zoom I just need to have my elbows on something like a wall or if I crouch down and put them on my legs.

As for digital zoom, there's 2 ways this works. One is the interpolation which just makes the pixels bigger and the picture gets uglier. The other works by taking a larger (in terms of pixels) size picture and then cropping out whatever you're not zoomed in on. This second mode doesn't degrade quality but it also doesn't work if you shoot pics at the cameras maximum res because it needs to be able to crop the image.

 

[Dug]

Your leaving out the best optical zoom consumer camera out there-

Panasonic DMC-FZ series
12x optical zoom with image stabalization built in. And it works.
Very high speed focus to the point you don't notice it.

The FZ5 is a little more than you want to spend, but it may be worth it if you are consistantly getting the shots you want. If it's sports then there's no 2nd chance so the high speed autofocus, image stabalization, and zoom is almost necessary. It's found at Newegg for $410 when in stock.

dpreview of FZ5

If you want to spend a little less, look at the FZ4, or the FZ20 which is going on clearance.

 

[gsellis]

10x optical would be close to what you would get with a 200mm lens IIRC. As for shaking, shutter speed, draw breath, hold, squeeze...

Oh, I like the Kyocera M410R for the feature of 2.2 or 3.3 fps until the memory is full or VGA video 30fps until full. Still have not bought one though...

 

[Cheesetogo]

Originally posted by: Dug
Your leaving out the best optical zoom consumer camera out there-

Panasonic DMC-FZ series
12x optical zoom with image stabalization built in. And it works.
Very high speed focus to the point you don't notice it.

The FZ5 is a little more than you want to spend, but it may be worth it if you are consistantly getting the shots you want. If it's sports then there's no 2nd chance so the high speed autofocus, image stabalization, and zoom is almost necessary. It's found at Newegg for $410 when in stock.

dpreview of FZ5

If you want to spend a little less, look at the FZ4, or the FZ20 which is going on clearance.

I'd also look at the fz-15 which is the same as the fz-20 but 4 mp and has no microphone(usless) or hot shoe. I have it and it's a really nice camera. I think I bought it for around 375, and it's probably gone down now.

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: rocketbubba
By the way, I know people on this forum and elsewhere love Canons and I'm sure they're great, but I can't find one in this price range with a decent zoom. I was considering a 5 MP A95 because it uses CF cards and AA batteries, but it only has a 3x zoom.

Any thoughts out there? Thanks for any input!

Yeah, there's a reason people like the Canons...

Originally posted by: LED

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
I know you didn't mention it, but the Canon S1 IS is an excellent big zoom camera and unlike the Minolta it is stabilized(makes a big difference). It is lower on the MP side(3MP), but Steve seemed to like it a lot. Not trying to force another option on to you, I was just in pretty much the same boat you were and looked all over reading through all the reviews and decided on the S1 IS and have been extremely pleased with it.

Same Here :heart:

My brother has the S1 and it is an amazing camera. He did a lot of reading (mostly on Steve's) and decided to go with it. Everybody who plays with it wants one. The stabilization really helps. The stitch function actually works. The color is better than any digicam I've seen (but I'm mostly comparing it to some pretty crappy cameras). It's an easy to use camera, but has all the advanced features I can think of, too, so it's a pretty ideal camera for the budding enthusiast type. It's also pretty cool that it lets you do 640x480 30FPS video -- 480 rows and 30FPS is something that is actually usable and you can integrate it with DV footage pretty easily, and you can make clips up to 1GB.

It's 2048x1536, which is fine for printing 8x10 (that would be 200 DPI, and with a good camera 150 DPI is all you need).

I really don't know when you'd go over 4X zoom (my brother carries one of those mini-tripods around with him that works pretty well for long shots, though). You need to look at the overall quality of the camera, not just the megapixels and zoom.

The S1 is probably the best thing in the $300 range. I'm thinking my brother got his from ButterflyPhoto.com. You can get it delivered for just under $300. You really want to do a lot of reading on ResellerRatings.com before you buy a camera, though. I've never seen more shady merchants than I've seen looking at camera sellers. It's hilarious and sad how many places will outright refuse to sell you a camera for the advertized price if you don't buy accessories with it. You need to read some of the merchant reviews just for the comedy value.

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=2301615/search=canon+s1

It's pretty funny that Dell and Best Buy have the worst ratings on PriceGrabber.

 

[Dug]

Only reasons I don't like the Canon-

It's slow, 1.5" screen. Othere than that it's a great camera.

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: Dug
Your leaving out the best optical zoom consumer camera out there-

People are leaving it out because it's $115 over his budget. The only FZ in his price range is a refurbished FZ3 without stabilization.

Even if it was within his budget, it would be hard to justify the price vs. the S1. That review says the FZ5 has over-sharp pictures, problems in macro mode, no converter lenses, no manual focus, noise reduction problems and a useles movie mode. None of those are problems with the S1.

Really, the only person who would want the FZ5 would be someone who absolutely needed a faster camera than the S1. If he's shooting a lot of fast action that could certainly be the case, but he never mentioned it so I doubt it.