Digital Foundry: next-gen PlayStation and Xbox to use AMD's 8-core CPU and Radeon HD

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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Yup, the 32nm shrink helped a lot for the Atoms. Hopefully Temash's shrink to 28nm will give us the same sorts of savings again- plus the FCH is being integrated into the SoC, which will also help.

Yet the 28nm Brazos was cancelled. A product that takes up 39% of AMDs entire CPU shipment.

Now Jaguar/Temash gonna battle IB Celerons and Silvermont Atoms.
 
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Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
O RLY?
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4134/the-brazos-review-amds-e350-supplants-ion-for-miniitx/7

give us one reason why jaguars power efficiency is going to be worse then atoms?

That article is 2yrs old.

I made my comment within the context of assuming we'd be comparing Jaguar (built with TSMC 28nm) to a modern atom sku (built on 22nm).

I'm expecting the 22nm atom to sip power like a prius, but also be designed such that it is not going to scale to the kinds of performance capabilities that 28nm jaguar has been designed to hit.

Are you expecting jaguar to be have even better performance/watt than 22nm atom, despite its process handicap of being built on 28nm? (if you are, then I'd buy that argument given that AMD was able to do just that with their 40nm brazos versus Intel's 32nm atom IIRC)
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,301
5,305
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Yet the 28nm Brazos was cancelled. A product that takes up 39% of AMDs entire CPU shipment.

Now Jaguar/Temash gonna battle IB Celerons and Silvermont Atoms.

28nm Brazos was cancelled because it would have been badly delayed due to process issues, and they wanted to focus on shipping Jaguar instead.

Temash facing off with IB Celerons- that's not really going to happen. A 10W part with a 3W PCH, shipping in very low quantities, is not a mainstream tablet chip.

Silvermont Atoms? They're something far more interesting, and I'm looking forward to seeing how they do. Right now we don't know enough to really predict much about how they will compare to Temash. I just wish Intel was focusing more on them and giving us the kind of deep-dive presentations that they have for Haswell- it still feels like Atom is being neglected.
 

Fx1

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2012
1,215
5
81
I would take these rumours with a huge grain of salt. None of them make any real sense tbh.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
28nm Brazos was cancelled because it would have been badly delayed due to process issues, and they wanted to focus on shipping Jaguar instead.

Temash facing off with IB Celerons- that's not really going to happen. A 10W part with a 3W PCH, shipping in very low quantities, is not a mainstream tablet chip.

Silvermont Atoms? They're something far more interesting, and I'm looking forward to seeing how they do. Right now we don't know enough to really predict much about how they will compare to Temash. I just wish Intel was focusing more on them and giving us the kind of deep-dive presentations that they have for Haswell- it still feels like Atom is being neglected.

Temash gonna compete with Atoms, not Celerons.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
I would take these rumours with a huge grain of salt. None of them make any real sense tbh.
Yup. Even if some turn out to have some truth, the results won't be the same as as similar PCs. FI, eDRAM has been quite successful--to a point that I would be very surprised if the next MS set-top console lacked it--and programmer-visible eDRAM local store(s), and/or a large eDRAM LLC (I would be interested to see what something like BG's caches would do with low-power moderate-IPC low-core-count CPU), would make for something very different than our PCs, in practice, regardless of CPU tech used.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,301
5,305
136
Temash gonna compete with Atoms, not Celerons.

Ah, you meant Kabini vs Celerons? That makes more sense- my bad. We'll have to wait and see for the benches- my suspicion is that Kabini will win out on gaming, but the IB Celerons will win in CPU benchmarks. That may well be wrong though, if Kabini is hamstrung by a single channel memory controller.
 

Homeles

Platinum Member
Dec 9, 2011
2,580
0
0
Yep typical xbitlabs, they do a lot of what seems to be good testing but it's horribly flawed at best, or biased depending on what they are reviewing. The original Brazos review shows a completely different story.
Test beds were different. Nice try.
 

SiliconWars

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2012
2,346
0
0
Test beds were different. Nice try.

Q) And why would they use an inferior Brazos board?


A) Because they did it before in this review - http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i3-2100t_11.html#sect0

With the following results -





You should spend a bit more time increasing your knowledge of other techsites, particularly their little quirks. Xbitlabs is the most untrustworthy site on the web and writes reviews based on a conclusion they got paid for. Notice how Brazos' power consumption miraculously increased by almost 75% at idle and some 50% at load?
 
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Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
Xbitlabs is the most untrustworthy site on the web and writes reviews based on a conclusion they got paid for. Notice how Brazos' power consumption miraculously increased by almost 75% at idle and some 50% at load?

Hanlon's Razor
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

This is part of the problem with the "tech press". While I am sure there is some collusion that goes on, they are in business for profit after all, it is far more likely the case that they've simply erred in their testing methodologies out of ignorance more than anything else.

How many tech press journalists do you think have been formally trained in the procedures of the scientific method? Very few IMO, and it shows which is why you get these kinds of wonky results that are inconsistent over time and across websites.
 

Olikan

Platinum Member
Sep 23, 2011
2,023
275
126
That's why you disable one core of 8 in all chips so that you can salvage most faulty chips. The same will happen with the CUs of the GPU, and ways of the cache.

This might be the best reason they chosed a 8-core jaguar chip...well noted

if yields are just terrible they can use a 6 core console, and it will still be very fast compared to previous-xbox
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
We are NOT having a "which site is trustworthy" flame fest. Nor are we going to have an Atom vs. Brazos flame fest. Capisce?

Please stick to the consoles and other meaningful subjects like you have for the last 260 posts. You guys have thus far done an amazing job for an 11 page CPU forum thread.

-ViRGE
 
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MightyMalus

Senior member
Jan 3, 2013
292
0
0
If this turns out to be true, this just supports PC gaming even more.
They went with x86, not ARM.

Not only that, its Jaguar cores. Low cost cores and games optimized for them. We might very well see many games being scaled across multiple platforms because of it.

But in all honesty, if this turns out to be true, why should AMD even care about SR anymore? They should focus on Jaguar instead. 8C+ Jaguar desktop chip? Why not!?
One core, all markets.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
More information on xbox NEXT:

http://www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusive-durango-unveiled/



CPU:

- x64 Architecture

- 8 CPU cores running at 1.6 gigahertz (GHz)

- each CPU thread has its own 32 KB L1 instruction cache and 32 KB L1 data cache

- each module of four CPU cores has a 2 MB L2 cache resulting in a total of 4 MB of L2 cache

- each core has one fully independent hardware thread with no shared execution resources

- each hardware thread can issue two instructions per clock

GPU:

- custom D3D11.1 class 800-MHz graphics processor

- 12 shader cores providing a total of 768 threads

- each thread can perform one scalar multiplication and addition operation (MADD) per clock cycle

- at peak performance, the GPU can effectively issue 1.2 trillion floating-point operations per second

High-fidelity Natural User Interface (NUI) sensor is always present

Storage and Memory:

- 8 gigabyte (GB) of RAM DDR3 (68 GB/s)

- 32 MB of fast embedded SRAM (ESRAM) (102 GB/s)

- from the GPU’s perspective the bandwidths of system memory and ESRAM are parallel providing combined peak bandwidth of 170 GB/sec.

- Hard drive is always present

- 50 GB 6x Blu-ray Disc drive

Networking:

- Gigabit Ethernet

- Wi-Fi and Wi-Fi Direct

Hardware Accelerators:

- Move engines

- Image, video, and audio codecs

- Kinect multichannel echo cancellation (MEC) hardware

- Cryptography engines for encryption and decryption, and hashing
 

Golgatha

Lifer
Jul 18, 2003
12,231
626
126
If this is true expect multi-threading in games to take off like a rocket once the consoles launch.

I would expect poorly coded games that don't maximize the full potential of the hardware at launch. Just history repeating itself.
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
5,058
410
126
memory is 256bit? interesting, I was expecting 128...

considering they can use the embedded ram for the more critical stuff, the memory bandwidth looks nice, this GPU shouldn't be much faster than a 7770 (considering the lower clock)
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,301
5,305
136

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
That info doesn't smell right. The diagram has "North Bridge" and "South Bridge", which is not what modern AMD platforms looks like. Both Trinity and Bobcat have only had a single FCH chip- only AM3+ has a two-chip solution(due to compatibility needs with AM3). Temash even goes as far as moving the FCH onto the SoC.

It looks very homemade indeed.
 

Homeles

Platinum Member
Dec 9, 2011
2,580
0
0
There's nothing groundbreaking there. I could write that up. It looks like it was specifically written with extra jargon to make it sound credible.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
15,116
5,667
136
I am also suspicious of it also having a blu-ray drive and a hard drive standard. And Sata 2?

It is possible that the CPU is Piledriver-based, but I doubt that.
 
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