[Digital Foundry] Why DX12 is a gamechanger for PC (and AMD!)

[Head1985]

Yeah that test sucks..here is better one
http://www.svethardware.cz/recenze-3dmark-testujeme-vykon-directx-12/40352-6
http://www.svethardware.cz/recenze-3dmark-testujeme-vykon-directx-12/40352-7

 

[TheELF]

If a gpu does better on an i5 than an i3, is its driver single-threaded or multi-threaded? Seriously, this shouldn't be a hard question to answer.

It can be multithreaded and still not recognize the hyperthreads,if it only runs two threads on the i3 but four on the i5 then the difference is logical.

 

[Glo.]

DX10 was mainly hyped by graphics companies, specially ATI. But quite some from devs as well. MS was the least one to hype it.

Then I stand corrected, thank you.

However, this time is a bit different, because many, many, MANY developers and people from industry praise every variation of Mantle(DX12, Vulkan).

Especially that comes from people that are making multiplatform games for Linux, OSX, Windows and consoles.

DX12 is not really a game changer. Mantle is/was.

 

[Erenhardt]

I just ran 3dmark api overhead test.
Holy moly, mantle is fast compared to dx11.

 

[futurefields]

DX12 is not really a game changer. Mantle is/was.

What's the point of making statements like this other than to start an argument?

I could argue that Mantle only showed up on less than 10 games so it's impact is a drop in the bucket compared to the impact DX12 will have. How can Mantle be considered a game changer when 3/4 of PC gamers use Nvidia GPU's?

 

[railven]

What's the point of making statements like this other than to start an argument?

I could argue that Mantle only showed up on less than 10 games so it's impact is a drop in the bucket compared to the impact DX12 will have. How can Mantle be considered a game changer when 3/4 of PC gamers use Nvidia GPU's?

I'd credit Mantle for he DX12 revolution. Sure, we can get into a chicken/egg argument.

As of now I'm excited for DX12 (had no interest in Mantle) and wouldn't hesitate to thank Mantle for it.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Then I stand corrected, thank you.

However, this time is a bit different, because many, many, MANY developers and people from industry praise every variation of Mantle(DX12, Vulkan).

Especially that comes from people that are making multiplatform games for Linux, OSX, Windows and consoles.

DX12 is not really a game changer. Mantle is/was.

I think DX12 would've happened anyhow.

 

[futurefields]

I'd credit Mantle for he DX12 revolution. Sure, we can get into a chicken/egg argument.

As of now I'm excited for DX12 (had no interest in Mantle) and wouldn't hesitate to thank Mantle for it.

So Mantle is first to market and you give it the credit for the improvements DX12 stands to make? On what basis? How do you know DX12 work was not being done concurrently or even before the work on Mantle?

 

[AnandThenMan]

So Mantle is first to market and you give it the credit for the improvements DX12 stands to make? On what basis? How do you know DX12 work was not being done concurrently or even before the work on Mantle?

Have you read anything at all on Mantle? DX12 essentially IS Mantle same with Vulkan.

 

[railven]

So Mantle is first to market and you give it the credit for the improvements DX12 stands to make? On what basis? How do you know DX12 work was not being done concurrently or even before the work on Mantle?

Odd, I didn't say any of that.

Again, chicken/egg argument pending, but I'm actively trying to ignore that since it goes no where.

I think DX12 would've happened anyhow.

Agreed, but open question would be when? Mantle appearing on the shelf just forced Microsoft to get DX12 on the shelf sooner. And that is why I thank Mantle (note again, I had zero interest in Mantle).

 

[mikk]

I honestly don't know what to make of the dx11 results shown, they don't make much sense to me. One thing is clear, thank goodness dx12/Vulcan/Mantle are coming.

There are some erros in it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NoxzsMt7-inVKjGHw1IOW3fyPq0WaHNHFiBPZh5-EM4/edit?pli=1#gid=0

 

[Glo.]

What's the point of making statements like this other than to start an argument?

I could argue that Mantle only showed up on less than 10 games so it's impact is a drop in the bucket compared to the impact DX12 will have. How can Mantle be considered a game changer when 3/4 of PC gamers use Nvidia GPU's?

Oh no, that wasn't on my mind to start an argument.

Of course, so far we haven't seen many games using Mantle. However, soon we will see many using DX12, which in fact is based on Mantle.

Besides. Mantle is only low-level API. DX12 is gigantic library. It uses Mantle as its functional base, but adds to it a lot of complexity.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Have you read anything at all on Mantle? DX12 essentially IS Mantle same with Vulkan.

Is it? Did mantle work on anything but GCN hardware? Last time I checked, two things that have different functionality cant be the same thing, or even "essentially" the same thing, since DX12 works on all 3 major hardware gpus, while mantle worked on maybe 20%.

Now DX12 may be based on mantle, they may have been developed concurrently, whatever, I dont really know. And frankly, I dont really care. At least it works on AMD, intel and nVidia hardware, something which mantle did not do. If if really is that important to somehow give credit to AMD for it, fine, I dont propose to know the intimate details of what went on behind the scenes during the development of both, but maybe you do. Hell, for all I know, they could both have been under concurrent development, and AMD released mantle early because they only optimized for one hardware.

 

[Udgnim]

E3

think we'll see Deus Ex: Mankind Divided in DX12

not sure if it'll be playable on the floor but I think there will be a live demonstration of it during the AMD / PC presentation

 

[digitaldurandal]

Is it? Did mantle work on anything but GCN hardware?

Yes, did they take advantage of it? No.

http://wccftech.com/amd-mantle-api-require-gcn-work-nvidia-graphic-cards/

It is not GCN dependent it has some hardware requirements just like DX12 does.

 

[Glo.]

Is it? Did mantle work on anything but GCN hardware?

Yes. ImaginationTechnologies GPUs used by Apple in their Phones and Tablets. Mantle from Apple is called Metal.

 

[Noctifer616]

Is it? Did mantle work on anything but GCN hardware?

Mantle also has the feature where the iGPU can be used in games for extra performance, so if it works with Intel iGPU's would that technically mean Mantle can work with other graphics architectures besides GCN?

We will find out once Ashes is released.

 

[mindbomb]

The processor that will benefit the most I think is the phenom II x6 1100t. It wasn't that popular when it launched, but it's gonna end up being vindicated and a decent cpu for dx12 gaming.

 

[TheELF]

Seriously,you are talking as if it was made for gaming PCs ,take a look at windows 10 and you will realize which cpus will benefit the most,tablet's cpus...

 

[futurefields]

i've still got my tinfoil hat firmly in place re: windows 10

the whole giving it away for free, even to users of pirated versions

i mean there is something fishy going on here

 

[biostud]

Could DX12 benefit physX effects, since it's often a lot of particles, and maybe these particles load the CPU with too many draw calls?

 

[boozzer]

i've still got my tinfoil hat firmly in place re: windows 10

the whole giving it away for free, even to users of pirated versions

i mean there is something fishy going on here

microsoft wants the install base to be as big as possible so it can peddle the windows app store

that is the entire purpose. mc is pretty straight forward with it's intentions this time around.

 

[AnandThenMan]

i've still got my tinfoil hat firmly in place re: windows 10

the whole giving it away for free, even to users of pirated versions

i mean there is something fishy going on here

No there is not if you know the full story. Win10 will not convert a pirated install to legit.

 

[sandorski]

Maybe at least AMD fans can quit complaining about gameworks crippling their drivers.

That's a whole other issue and could still happen with DX12 games.

 

[3DVagabond]

I think they will have to since it's the new standard for Windows.

There's going to be DX11.3 for devs who want the API to do more for them, rather than do it themselves. I would imagine that AAA games will use DX12 though.