Dilemma: which Mac to buy

[DarkAmeba]

Ok, I've seen a bunch of threads on this since the Apple product line refresh, so I apologize in advance for posting yet another thread, but I feel my situation is unique. At this point in time I am relying on my old Powerbook 1.67ghz G4 as my primary computer. It works beautifully sometimes, but it is really beginning to show its age. I was dreaming of a sub $2000 single processor Mac Pro or a mid range tower with these updates. Since nothing of the sort was released its back to the same question I've been asking myself ever since Apple switched to Intel: what to buy?
I am a moderate PC gamer who wants to run TF2 and L4D in bootcamp at 1900x1200 with smooth frame rates. I do a lot of h.264 work. I am also student who does not have much time for games these days, so I am willing to compromise more than I ever have been before. I really am dependent on OSX. I would hate to be forced back to windows and am willing to sacrifice as a result.

Options: (prices reflect dev. discounting)

~$700 Mac Mini for use for everything but gaming.
Problem: I HATE the idea of spending this much on what is essentially a laptop, especially since I could never game on it. I would have to build a windows PC for h.264 work and games, so the net cost would be about $2000. I would run the windows machine mostly through remote desktop, switching the display input to the windows box for gaming.

~$1900 24" iMac, 2.93 or 3.06 ghz, Mobility HD 4850
Would get me a dual monitor setup
Problem: less power, I do video encodes regularly, so I really want the power of a desktop (ideally quad core!) Plus the life of this computer would be shorter for me than a desktop. Not sure how well this build would hold up for gaming either. Mac Pro is only $500 more.

~$2,400 Mac Pro, 1x 2.66ghz with HD 4870
Problems: oh my... soo expensive. Even though I would only have one monitor, this seems like the right option, but I am having a REALLY hard time with the price. I can build an i7 windows machine for $1000!

Yes, i know, hackintosh. I just don't think it will work for me. I need a reliable computer for schoolwork, and I really don't have time to fool with fixing my OS whenever there is an update. I also want to be sure that I can run Snow Leopard.

Ok, responses will be much appreciated! I have literally been debating over which Intel mac to buy for 2 years now, and I'm no closer to a decision than I was when I started! Enlighten me with your experiences!

 

[sourceninja]

I'm in the same situation now. I don't do the bootcamp thing, but I do play TF2 via wine. I'm leaning to the iMac. Because I already have a notebook, and the imac has a very nice video card and a solid display. Also the imac supports up to 8 gigs of ram and the macbook only 4.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: DarkAmeba

~$700 Mac Mini for use for everything but gaming.
Problem: I HATE the idea of spending this much on what is essentially a laptop, especially since I could never game on it. I would have to build a windows PC for h.264 work and games, so the net cost would be about $2000. I would run the windows machine mostly through remote desktop, switching the display input to the windows box for gaming.

I'd start with this; Microcenter has the prior-gen Mac Mini (fine except for games) for $399 right now. Get a putty knife, stick in 4GB and a 320GB HDD for $100 or so total, and so for $499 you've got a tiny, fast little mini. (It's the 1GB, 2.0ghz, 120gb hdd, SD-equipped model.)

 

[Seeruk]

I have the new 09 quad 2.66 with 6GB RAM and the 4870. I also have almost the exact same demands as you. I have been covering my experiences with the machine here:
http://tf.erzz.com/2009/03/20/...iew-of-the-mac-pro-09/

I think it will meet all of your needs. I am particularly impressed with the video encoding speeds.... 1920x1080 AVCHD encoded to 720p mkv in slightly faster than realtime last night. Awesome!

 

[Kmax82]

Yea.. I hear you. I would go with the iMac, however, I'd make sure that you have a decent amount of HDD space, since the HDD isn't user replaceable in the iMac. The MacPro is a stellar machine, but it's a server grade machine, which is why it's much more than a consumer i7 build. Yes, you can build an i7 desktop for $1000, but Apple uses the Xeon server chips, which you won't find a $1000 build with them in it.

The iMac is a great machine, and for what you're wanting to use it for, I think it'd be perfect. Yes there are limitations with the build, but it's a beautiful machine, which I think makes up for the lack of user serviceable parts.

As for video encoding, you can always grab a TurboH.264 USB stick for the cheap, to go with your iMac.

And the last note... if you're fine with the $500 price hike for the MacPro, then I'd say get that. But if you're tight on money, or feel that you could use it elsewhere.. I think the iMac will fit the bill just fine.

 

[magnux]

Originally posted by: Kmax82
Yea.. I hear you. I would go with the iMac, however, I'd make sure that you have a decent amount of HDD space, since the HDD isn't easily user replaceable in the iMac.

Fixed.

 

[Kmax82]

Originally posted by: magnux

Originally posted by: Kmax82
Yea.. I hear you. I would go with the iMac, however, I'd make sure that you have a decent amount of HDD space, since the HDD isn't easily user replaceable in the iMac.

Fixed.

While true, I believe you have to remove the glass front to the screen. No where near easy, or even something a typical hobbyist would do.

 

[KeithP]

Some stores still have the octo 2.8 Mac Pros available. I saw Fry's in Fountain Valley had them for $2,500. Although still expensive, you get 8 cores and no RAM limit unlike the new entry level Mac Pro. My second choice would be a Hackintosh.

I have been using a MacBook for over a year as my primary home computer and love it. However, given Apple's current hardware line up and prices, there isn't a single machine I would feel good about buying. The price vs. features equation is way too out of whack.

-KeithP

 

[mmntech]

Originally posted by: Kmax82

Originally posted by: magnux

Originally posted by: Kmax82
Yea.. I hear you. I would go with the iMac, however, I'd make sure that you have a decent amount of HDD space, since the HDD isn't easily user replaceable in the iMac.

Fixed.

While true, I believe you have to remove the glass front to the screen. No where near easy, or even something a typical hobbyist would do.

Yep, a real PITA considering how the old iMacs just required you to remove the back cover. I guess Apple really wants you to go to their service centres. It's still not as bad as the iBook G4s though.
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Fi...iMac-20-Inch/658/1#top

I know the CPU is socketed on the new iMac; using Socket P. It might accept a quad core depending on whether the firmware allows it or not. Penryn based C2Q processors are vary expensive though. For video encoding, I'd go for Elgato TurboH.264 USB stick as somebody else said.
http://www.amazon.com/Elgato-T...10020500/dp/B000PCVIEU

Or you could pick up the iMac with an nVidia GPU and run Badaboom through CUDA. This option requires you to have Vista or XP installed through Bootcamp and obviously costs more than the TurboH.

 

[Daishiki]

Originally posted by: mmntech
It's still not as bad as the iBook G4s though.

Ugh, don't get me started on them. I love my iBook, except when I need to change the hdd.

 

[DarkAmeba]

Originally posted by: Seeruk
I have the new 09 quad 2.66 with 6GB RAM and the 4870. I also have almost the exact same demands as you. I have been covering my experiences with the machine here:
http://tf.erzz.com/2009/03/20/...iew-of-the-mac-pro-09/

I think it will meet all of your needs. I am particularly impressed with the video encoding speeds.... 1920x1080 AVCHD encoded to 720p mkv in slightly faster than realtime last night. Awesome!

Thanks! Your blog is great. Really gives me an idea what to expect.!

Originally posted by: Kmax82
As for video encoding, you can always grab a TurboH.264 USB stick for the cheap, to go with your iMac.

Good idea, I will look into this one, thanks!


Thanks for all the thoughts so far. I really love the mac community on this site

 

[chadisawesome]

amen on replacing the iMac hard drive. Mine failed about a month ago, which started me on building a hackintosh for me every day computer. I had to replace the hard and because of how difficult it was, I decided to sell it, and start building my own tower. I'm sure that the smart people who were able to get leopard running will be able to get snow leopard running as well.

anyway, here is a picture of my iMac fully opened up:
http://gallery.me.com/ckoepf/1...o1235448721135/web.jpg

not something I would recommend, it was scary and difficult to find all the right tools small enough to unscrew everything.

 

[JKing106]

I worked as an Apple tech at a state university, and Apple would send a kit with cotton gloves and suction cups to remove the glass shield on the iMacs. Hairy stuff.

 

[rdp6]

If you're a student, then you should look into a student membership in the ADC. I saved 20% off list on my mbp a few years ago.
http://store.apple.com/us_adc_...871LL/A?mco=NDE4NDIwNA

Here's what I found:
One 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
3GB (3x1GB)
640GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB
One 18x SuperDrive
Apple Mighty Mouse
Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad (English) and User's Guide

$2159.00

Add $99 for your membership fee.

The same machine lists for 2699 (normal price), 2479 (edu price) and 2483 (apple store for epp).

The student ADC discount is a one-time deal. I have seen epp store (for my company, do prices vary?) prices actually beat edu pricing on some items. I don't know if there are any measures taken to verify epp eligibility, but they definitely do for ADC student members.

As for me, I am gonna wait for SL before I make a decision. I'll give it 2 weeks to see how the hackintosh community deals with it. I really want a workstation for editing h.264 video, and it looks like only a tower will do. El Gato just announced a usb h.264 encoder, but it is limited to 10 Mbps. I leave my camcorder set for 24 Mbps, so that won't do. Maybe for exporting to Youtube... I'll wait for reviews.

http://www.elgato.com/elgato/n...264HD/product3.en.html

Looks like it requires an Intel machine. Sorry :\

 

[sjwaste]

That ADC discount is pretty good. I've considered buying an MBP with it, but I'm still waiting. Love my 13", but I do miss the 15" screen and associated real estate.

 

[Jack Flash]

I think you should rethink passing on a Hackintosh. Mine is rock solid and cost less than the cheapest iMac Apple sells.

22" eIPS Dell 2209WA
Antec Three Hundred
Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400 2.66GHz
8GB DDR2-800 SDRAM
nVidia 9800GTX+ 512MB
Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB HDD
Antec NeoPower 500W

$830

or

http://store.apple.com/us/prod...323LL/A?mco=MjE0NDk5Mw

 

[OptimisTech]

I will second the motion that you at least look at the hackintosh option. I'll even go a step further and suggest the EFiX. You have to order it from Canada, and true it's a little pricey as well, but take that $1000 i7 machine and add a $250 EFiX and you have a $1250 Mac Pro that you can update all you want. You just have to plan your hardware well.

 

[sjwaste]

Originally posted by: OptimisTech
I will second the motion that you at least look at the hackintosh option. I'll even go a step further and suggest the EFiX. You have to order it from Canada, and true it's a little pricey as well, but take that $1000 i7 machine and add a $250 EFiX and you have a $1250 Mac Pro that you can update all you want. You just have to plan your hardware well.

The problem with the Hackintosh route is that, depending on what you're using the machine for at least, you're running into grey areas of the OSX license.

That might be practically insigificant if you just want a fast, expandable Mac to use at home. If you're using it for professional reasons, though, licensing could be important to you. It's probably in the realm of never getting caught, but at least for me, I want my licenses to be in order, especially if using for professional purposes.

I realize buying retail OSX is different than downloading a torrent, where you'd be violating copyright. Buying retail OSX and building a hackintosh violates Apple's EULA, which is more of a contractual term. You're paying them, so it doesn't sound unethical or immoral, but what if they had some way to enforce it?

If you're making money using the machine, it's probably best to buy a Mac Pro. I'm not advocating a breach of contract to any extent, but that's a personal choice you'll have to make.

 

[DarkAmeba]

Ok, I've been convinced. Still not sure it's thr right way to go, but I'm looking at hackintosh again. I'm kinda waiting to see what Kaido's next hackintosh thread includes as I really like his walkthroughs. However, I've found some nice i7 build threads on insanelymac which are pretty tempting. I hate to "settle" but at least i'm not parting with 2.5 grand.

 

[racolvin]

i7 isn't really necessary unless you just gotta have the latest and greatest. Several very reliable hackintosh builds are possible with the prior generation chipsets (P35, P45)

 

[silverpig]

The hackintosh has been pretty great for me. I've enjoyed the OSX experience and will be getting a macbook for myself as my next computer.

Yeah I had a few headaches early on, but it's been smooth sailing for several months now.

 

[DarkAmeba]

Originally posted by: racolvin
i7 isn't really necessary unless you just gotta have the latest and greatest. Several very reliable hackintosh builds are possible with the prior generation chipsets (P35, P45)

Yeah, I was originally planning on a Core 2 Quad, but at this point the i7 920 is available to me at about the same price as a C2Q. I have to compare motherboards, and running OSX smoothly is honestly more critical than performance, but i7 would be nice to have for video work.

 

[racolvin]

I haven't priced an i7 or the mobo for it ... I just know the P35/45 chipset boards are nice and cheap and they perform very well. As far as hackintoshes go, they've had the most "debugging" and stability for OSX an an i7 would at this stage.

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: DarkAmeba

Originally posted by: racolvin
i7 isn't really necessary unless you just gotta have the latest and greatest. Several very reliable hackintosh builds are possible with the prior generation chipsets (P35, P45)

Yeah, I was originally planning on a Core 2 Quad, but at this point the i7 920 is available to me at about the same price as a C2Q. I have to compare motherboards, and running OSX smoothly is honestly more critical than performance, but i7 would be nice to have for video work.

Well, the cost of entry on i7 Mobos and RAM is higher than p45 mobos and RAM. Admittedly, the price between DDR3 and DDR2 has become much closer, but you are still looking at around $250 (IIRC) at least for a good mobo for i7, versus about $120 I think for the gigabyte p45 mobo that hackintoshes like a dream.

I say get the P45 system, much more stable (with regards to work being done in the Hack community), more affordable, and still a rocking system.

 

[umrigar]

Incapable? No... they want to make large profits. They are one of the most solvent computer companies around.

They have little desire to market a lower-priced tower for the sake of budget-minded people like us.

Does that make me happy? No. But Apple does not exist purely to make me/us happy.