DirectX 12

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f1sherman

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Apr 5, 2011
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Right now DX11 MT is good, but it's not nearly on the same level as Mantle. DX12 MT should be on the same level as Mantle from a performance perspective (or a bit better perhaps as there are many other improvements across the board than just MT implementation) but without the drawback of being tied to GCN..


Oh but judging by NV proudly waving their charts and pledging Fermi-deep DX12 support,



and AMD being awfully quite about the same issue, it does seem like DX12 will be tied to GCN.
From AMD's perspective that is.
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
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Right now DX11 MT is good, but it's not nearly on the same level as Mantle.
You've said several times that AMD has a lot more to gain from DX MT versus Nvidia. So that means under DX12 AMD will potentially see much larger gains. So what exactly is so special about DX12 for Nvidia? AMD realizes greater improvements in DX, still has Mantle for even closer to metal stuff.

If I'm AMD I'm feeling pretty good about things right now.
 

f1sherman

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Phynaz

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Mar 13, 2006
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DX12 is a heck of a lot more than just multi-threading. Lots of low level state management stuff just like Mantle.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/...ovements-for-existing-hardware-in-directx-12/

Under DirectX 12, apps will have the ability to track the GPU's pipeline status directly, without relying on the API or driver as a middleman. Developers will be able to directly control when a resource changes from a texture to a render target and back, for instance, and control where resources are placed in the system heap. Developers will also be able to bundle resources into groups for easier tracking.

All those are Mantle features. It's going to be a breeze for AMD to implement this.
 
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RampantAndroid

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Jun 27, 2004
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You've said several times that AMD has a lot more to gain from DX MT versus Nvidia. So that means under DX12 AMD will potentially see much larger gains. So what exactly is so special about DX12 for Nvidia? AMD realizes greater improvements in DX, still has Mantle for even closer to metal stuff.

If I'm AMD I'm feeling pretty good about things right now.

Because paying developers to create and use mantle only to toss it in a year gives AMD a nice warm feeling inside?
 

Gloomy

Golden Member
Oct 12, 2010
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Oh please, lol. Everyone can see DX12 is a carbon copy of Mantle. Reading those slides in the live blog flexed everyone's deja vu muscles.
 

PPB

Golden Member
Jul 5, 2013
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What's Mantle's baby daddy supposed to say?

yes sweetie you're just as pretty as that rich girl

Ofc he's gonna say that

But it isnt HIS baby, if AMD stole the work of MS according to some posters here. Why would be someone mad at something like this if it wasn't his creation in the first place?

Ah right, because its really his and AMD's and MS is most likely playing copycat this time around.
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
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Because paying developers to create and use mantle only to toss it in a year gives AMD a nice warm feeling inside?

Ah so that's what your crystal ball says, Mantle is DOA in a year.


Your "crystal ball" comments are not necessary.

-Rvenger
 
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f1sherman

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Techhog

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Sep 11, 2013
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How about instead of fighting, we come to the obvious conclusion; AMD and Microsoft worked on DX12 together, with AMD playing a large part, allowing them to get the jump by delivering Mantle before DX12. Both Mantle and DX12 benefit AMD in the same way, so it makes more sense from that perspective.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/...ovements-for-existing-hardware-in-directx-12/



there you go - From Nvidia's side: as old as 2010 HW to be supported in DX12
and from AMD - not even all hw selling TODAY will be supported

This is huge imho

... Nevermind, let the senseless bickering continue.
 

desprado

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Jul 16, 2013
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RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
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Ah so that's what your crystal ball says, Mantle is DOA in a year.

Let's play this out:

When DX12 comes out, if it does threading in a good way (let's assume it does no worse than mantle) and is Win9 only, then Mantle only matters to Win 8.1 and below...which will be a shrinking market.

If all of the above is true, except DX12 gets on to Win 8/8.1 (or even Win7), that market for Mantle continues to shrink. Game developers will not willingly support 2 or more renderers. They'll support DX for Windows, OGL for Linux/OSX and then the XBox and PS platforms. I don't see them duplicating their work on the PC by supporting DX AND Mantle unless AMD throws lots of money at them.

And again, if DX12 gets perf numbers close to Mantle, AMD will have no reason to pay people to support Mantle.

From the eurogamer article:
Microsoft ported across the 3DMark benchmark to DX12, and notes substantially lower CPU utilisation as a result.

So MS apparently has DX12 working in a prototype form.
 

PPB

Golden Member
Jul 5, 2013
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I cant really see the bickering behind DX12 not supporting VLIWx uarchs, since from the get go Mantle couldn't support that same architecture. On the other hand, the SIMD-like uarchs are all getting adopted. This is clearly showing a tendency that the ease of programmability in the SIMD uarchs is key into making these APIs work, the rest is just checking the feature sets of each uarch.

And AMD is still shipping VLIW parts because they actually have to cater to a segment of the market that nvidia lost a couple of generations ago. If you start counting AMD gpus with comparable or better performance that NV's current lowest offering, they are most likely all GCN gpus.
 

caswow

Senior member
Sep 18, 2013
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crazy some of the anti mantle guys believing pr slides and the best part is its even 2 years away
what did you guys made change your thinking?
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
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crazy some of the anti mantle guys believing pr slides and the best part is its even 2 years away
what did you guys made change your thinking?

The release of games using it is less than 2 years away, which means it'll be in developers hands well before then.
 

caswow

Senior member
Sep 18, 2013
525
136
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guys come on. its mantle thread all over again but reversed. its hilarious

whats more important: who believes that fermi and kepler will actually benefit from dx12? this could be all , you know, pr bs. blindly believing in pr slides. i cant take it no more oh god this is so hypocritical


Your last two posts were clearly trolling other members to take your bait. That will be enough!

-Rvenger
 
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PPB

Golden Member
Jul 5, 2013
1,118
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I still remember the "HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE AMD PR SLIDES??? THEY ARENT PROOF!!!!1one!!eleventy" whining on the Mantle thread from someone who just entered the thread a couple posts ago. Guess PR slides are only PR slides if they are made by AMD, if else -> undeniable truth sent from the heavens


This post added zero value to the discussion, stop the thread crapping, NOW.

-Rvenger
 
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