Disappointed by Ati AIW Radion32 DDR horid software and no support for good ones-- UPDATE!! Read this Thread!! I changed my Mind!!! OH Boy Oh Boy!!!

[rbV5]

NicColt, bummer about the files. I bet you've got win98 first edition, because it looks to me it was fixed for win98se. There is a download that will install those files, but since youre going with win2k why bother.

astroller, The Radeon is not horrid, in fact my AIW Radeon is a great card. I am not sure about the Asus card, but I'm sure its not a bad card and plenty fast, I'm sure the Radeon is an excellent card and ATI surely has the upper hand with the VIVO features.

 

[TungFree]

astroller,
U did not specify what u wish to do with your Vid card and what is importand to u and how often u will use it in each way. That may determin your vid card input form the readers and contributors of the thread.
NicColt,
what version is your win98 ? am curious.

 

[TungFree]

There is a prgram which you might want to check out that
works with premiere:

the consolidator:
http://www.premieretools.com/

 

[NicColt]

Ok I reread this entire thread to update myself again. Here's an update.

It's official.

I did a clean Win2K PRO install with no "VfW MM Driver for WDM Video Capture Device".

FACT: Here's what venomhed said.

I went through hell and back and finally got what I wanted....sort of.

1. Formated my hard drive, installed Win 2000 Pro.
2. Installed the newest and latest ATI special purpose driver of MMC 7.1 and whatever their highest ATI AIW radeon 2000 drivers.
3. Did that and VDUB says "NO CAPTURE DEVICE"
Long story short, uninstalled, reinstalled the Radeon Drivers from the CD, nothing, same error.

===
So according to this, even if you re-install the drivers from the CD -AFTER- having installed newer drivers you still won't get the VfW MM Driver for WDM Video Capture Device.
===

GOTO 1. Redid Win2k pro, installed the Radeon drivers from the CD this time. Vdub reads the ATI AIW RADEON but still, no codecs to choose from. SOOOO, I install the latest Special Purpose ATI drivers for RADEON AIW and WIN2k. Installed DIVX CODEC 3.20 NOW Vdub goes to capture mode and WA LA, Divx is in there just like it should be and WORKS GREAT!

===
Now according to what venomhed said, if you do a clean install of 2K PRO and then install the ATI-CD drivers he was then able to use VirtualDub. RBV5 did you not tell me before that you installed your ATI driver ontop. I mean that you didn't remove the installed drivers before installing the updated ones?

venomhed, can you tell me if you see the "VfW MM Driver for WDM Video Capture Device" or "WDM Video for Windows Capture Driver(win32)" when you goto -Control Panel -Sound and Multimedia -Legacy Video Capture Device -Properties. You should see either the "VfW MM Driver for WDM Video Capture Device" or "WDM Video for Windows Capture Driver(win32)" entry, can you confirm this with me.

RBV5 I think that you did confirm this with me earlier.

Edit: I think you did mention this before in another post.

"Legacy Video Capture Devices, under properties, this is listed as: WDM Video for Windows Capture Driver(win32)"

Would it be posible to see that screen shot on your website again?

Now this is what I'm giong to do in the coming days. Exactly as venomhed said.

Do a clean Win2K Pro install.
Do a clean ATI-CD install.
(then, hopefully I should then see the "WDM Video for Windows Capture Driver(win32)" in the Legacy Video Capture Device, properties).

True trial and error I will find out why some have the VfW MM Driver for WDM Video Capture Device and why some don't but we are nearing it down. But I also need your help.

 

[TungFree]

welcome back NicColt
since I have my sx1030 antec I soon will get the 1.2 athlon and a MOBO with both DDR and Sdram slots with Via 266 chipsets coming soon from Asus. till then I see u as a barometer of how the wether is in the video edit area cause probably I will have a similar obsticle.
So appreciate all your inputs especially when with all your experience and your programs u cannot duplicate somones results I may face the same.
Keep it coming Bro ) I read u...

 

[venomhed]

Nicolt,

I will try and do this tonight. I also have a Creative Labs webcam and when I use any capture prograsm (including VDUB) I recall seeing something like this:
ATI AIW Radeon
Creative Webcam III VFW
Creative Webcam III WDM

This is from memory and I can go home and confirm this.

Man I have been throwing EVERYTHING, audio/video codecs, programs, updates, pathces and STILL haven't messed up my video capture set. Still works pefectly. Nicolt you may as well start on your little project as it may just work outright. In the meantime I will try to get your info.

 

[NicColt]

******* FIXED *******

SEE my post HERE

Thanks to ALL of you who have helped. After 7 reinstalls and formats and fdisk, this thing now finally works with Video for Windows.

 

[venomhed]

CONGRATULATIONS! I hope we can further help people with this.

Anyone want to take the time to inform ATI of this entire thread so that WE can teach THEIR tech support how to troubleshoot?

MORONS!

Anyways, I will enjoy my Radeon AIW as it will be THE LAST ATI PRODUCT I EVER OWN!
Geforce 3 - All In Everything is my next choice. Screw ATI for they have screwed US!

 

[TungFree]

Cheers to NicColt !!

ssssso nice to hear it ... sweet sweet.

 

[fobbman]

An update since I received my card on my experience so far. First off, the specs:

KT7 running Duron 650@1000
128 megs RAM (I know, I need more)
WinME
15 gig Primary, two 20 gig capture drives soon to be RAIDed but at this time not
MMC 7.1
7075 and 7097 drivers (same results as below)
DirectX 8a (second revision)


With this current setup I can capture at 352x288 with no dropped frames, but anything larger than that gets ugly. I'm hoping that when I RAID those two 20's that this will fix the dropped-frames issue so that I can capture at a more SVCD friendly 480x480. Gotta get those family videos off of the tapes. Which reminds me...I need to go to Radio Shack during lunch and get a resister to mod my ATA100 cable that I'll be using for the Promise card. Yeah, don't need to hack the card. Just the cable.

AVI_IO has captured great for me, as it always has. Markus did a great job with this.

TV tuner is fine, but when I setup to record TV programs it doesn't work (only tried twice without much testing or troubleshooting).

DVD player worked fine for awhile, but recently decided to hang entire system when it goes to play. Splash screen won't go away, just kills it. I've uninstalled without reinstalling. WinDVD works great, but will try to reinstall the ATIDVD later.

Seems like everyone but me is using Win2000, but I need ME to run the older kids games that my toddler brings home from the library and Win2000 just won't play them. There are a ton of people using 2000 with a ton of fixes to go with them.

That's the experience so far. Ask questions or give suggestions if you have them.

 

[NicColt]

>Ask questions or give suggestions if you have them

>Duron 650@1000
Nice... I only have mine at 850.

It is my opinion and experience and probably the concensus of this forum, that Win98 or even winME for that matter is not solid enough to do "hard core" (no pun intended) Video capture. By that I mean High Rez for hours and then re-rendering it. If you want to do a 20 second clip and send it to grandma by email, then perhaps win98 or ME is ok. I'm in the process of experimenting with win2k for heavy duty capturing and win2k beats win98 in that area. But that's my opinion.

>AVI_IO has captured great for me

I've started to test with it this morning and it's quite nice at capturing. I can see why people like it.

 

[fobbman]

The thought of running a dual-boot Win2K/ME system has crossed my mind as of late, especially now that I have a 15 gig drive solely for my operating system(s) and applications.

Have to ponder that one...

 

[TungFree]

What is AVI_IO?
and has anyone tried Ulead Medea Studio I Heard from a High School kid that does video editing in his school that he has Vega Video, Premiere6.0 and Ulead Media Studio and he prefurs the latter. Any experience anyone?
Is it possible to use the Server version of win2k and just not install all of it? I think rbV5 said the server taxes the system more than is wise to use and said to use WIN2k Pro, but another local source said that win2k Pro is a subset of the server version. So which is right?

Lastly, I live in Hawaii near a Costco store and they have Matrox 30 gig drives for sale at $120 each, would it be wise to get 2 for a Raid board or do I need bigger ones? I donnot yet have a MOBO, am thinking about the Asus A7V266-R with Via chipsets soon to come, with Raid and with a 1.2 T-Bird to buye, and I already have antec sx1030 case, 516 megs SDRAM 133, and ATI AIW Radion 32 DDR to merge as a system. I heard the MOBO will be Palamino compatible and is DDR266 as well as SDRAM 133 slotted.

Since we are speaking of the finalizing of a system and OS, I felt the questions relevent, to pose here and now, and to put a RED ribbon on the fine qaulity thread this has become.

 

[NicColt]

Man that's onena sweeta system if I may say. (if you get it)

last year at this time, state of the art was A7V with a Duron 650 or 700 and Tbird 900

>has anyone tried Ulead Medea Studio

Yes and I hated it with a passion, I understand why probably students would like it, it's kinda idiot proof with all the lights and whistles. I also had premiere 6 for a while but again the flow was just too criptic and confusing.

Vegas video aaahhh now there's a software that no fuss with no gimics and has the guts todo serious vid editing. I was able to have that up in minutes and have a rendered clip in under 10 minutes of install. I later did a one hour clip where the sound was out of sync and it was great, I had to resync the sound, not easy but doable and the clip turned out great.

The flow, the technology, the layout are all great, it also edits MPEG2 video. I would rate it better than Premiere, IMHO.

>What is AVI_IO?

A very small (73kb) program that does excellent video capture, it's strong point is 0 frame loss captures. It also can stripe capture with 0 frame loss. In other words if you plan to put your captures to CD for example you can stripe it at 650 Megs each and it will create 650 captures like Capture01.avi Capture02.avi all in 650Meg chunks.

 

[TungFree]

NicColt,
thanx for the genneral eval of the system
today I went to Costco and saw that the 30 gig Matrox hard drives were gone and the Maxtor 30 gig is $123 or $129 and the 60meg Maxtor was $179 and all sold out and I heard 75 megs are coming. so still am not sue what space is an overkill and what is bare minimumand what is the best value to money. I want to spend about 300 to 350 for 2 drives but am not rushing in if 75megs come in at 200+ probably 230 each.
NicColt what version is the last version of AVI_IO ? I saw 1.29 to D3.18 what should I look for?

 

[fobbman]

AVI_IO is great! You can find the home page here. Markus put a lot of time into it and it's well worth the small registration fee.

Personally I like MSP 5 and have not tried 6 yet. Premiere didn't do it for me, and I haven't tried VV yet.

Keep an eye on the Hot Deals area of Anandtech for good deals on hard drives. RAIDing a couple 30's might be a bit more expensive but the writing speeds are three times the write speeds on one 60 gig. I'll be striping a couple 20's in the next day or so which should be plenty big enough for 30+ minute projects.

 

[venomhed]

The words that are forbidden are highlighted for you.

Anyone trying to do video on an IDE drive is really a novice. I mean we all have been there but its a true statement.

Dont even bother with IDE, trust me. I have three 9.1 - 10k rpm scsi drives in a volume set (nt sees them as one drive). Sure its expensive but how many of us can capture at 640X480 (or higher) with no frame loss? Not many. Also depends on your codec as well. But you can get a scsi card and an uw scsi drive for a few hundo now. Its WELL worth the money. try www.pricewatch.com you'll see.

I also have an 80 gig maxtor ide drive. Slow as hell but great for all these huge video philes, oops, files. Once the scsi is done capturing them dump em to IDE. So many people here say "I have a p4/AMD 1.4 ghz and am still dropping frames!" Well your hard drive is slowing you down. An ide drive uses about 50-80% of the CPU clock cycle. Scsi uses about 10%!! This combo creates an ideal situation for capturing live video!

Also using Win 9X is a joke with capturing video. So many people took that route thanks to lousy driver support for NT and 2K. Go with WIN2k, it really is the best OS that MS ever made.

Bottom line: If your not using NT and SCSI, seriously get out or re-think your video capturing hobby. Otherwise you will pull ALL your hair out. Thats why I look like Larry from the 3 stooges now. Sorry to be so harsh but it really is true.

 

[NicColt]

>Win 9X is a joke with capturing video

Yea well I learned that the hard way. I also just find that Win2k with ntfs and ATA/100 does a much better job at "handling" diskspace and WinXP has a newer NTFS structure that will be even better for digital media. So far with the 320x240 captures that I have made with ATI-TV and AVI_IO I didn't get 1 frame loss at all ZERO and with programs like AVI_IO it really helps.

I programmed the Guide+ todo a one hour capture tonight and when I get home I'll check it out.

Edit: SUCCESS - 1hr MPEG2 Guide+ programmed capture at 320x240 with 2.00Mbit/Sec. no frame loss and audio in perfect sync.

>Its WELL worth the money

ah.. I don't have that kind of money for that. I think that improvements are being made as the OS level and with improved -capture- drivers and capture programs we won't need that level of hardware for home use captures. Of course if you're into heavy duty captures then that may justify it.

>Sorry to be so harsh but it really is true >Go with WIN2k, it really is the best OS that MS ever made.

Sometimes you just have to say it like it is and I agree with you. Microsoft should have done a Win2K Pro for Home user version though. XP will have a Home version and apparently be ideal for digital media so things will get better for the video capture hobiest

 

[Bratac]

<< Anyone trying to do video on an IDE drive is really a novice. I mean we all have been there but its a true statement.
Dont even bother with IDE, trust me. I have three 9.1 - 10k rpm scsi drives in a volume set (nt sees them as one drive). Sure its expensive but how many of us can capture at 640X480 (or higher) with no frame loss? Not many. >>


I for one can... *with* IDE drive (30GB IBM Deskstar 75GXP UATA/100) on 1GHz T-Bird. My Radeon AiW does perfect job in Win98 - I am able to capture 704x576 in MPEG2 (full IPB @ 6Mbps) without dropping any frames.


<< Well your hard drive is slowing you down. An ide drive uses about 50-80% of the CPU clock cycle. Scsi uses about 10%!! This combo creates an ideal situation for capturing live video! >>


When you are talking about lossless uncompressed capture (requiring AFAIK about 45-50 MB/s datarate), then you are, of course, right. SCSI is then the only answer, as my IDE drive can only handle data rates up to 25-30 MB/s.


<< Also using Win 9X is a joke with capturing video. >>


So true, but as ATI doesn't have good solid RADEON AiW drivers yet for 2k, I have to stick to Win98 for the time being. A small suggestion - if you are forced to dwell in win9x, then try out the original Win98 first, 98SE and Me tend to be slower and more resource hungry => more dropped frames.

 

[TungFree]

very interesting humerous and informative everyone of u. will have to reread it tomorrow it is 11/17pm here now.

No one commented on my win2kServerPro if it can be used as win2kpro in custom mode install anyone know?

What is MSP 5 ? Media studio Pro 5?

&quot;When you are talking about lossless uncompressed capture (requiring AFAIK about 45-50 MB/s datarate), then you are, of course, right. SCSI is then the only answer, as my IDE drive can only handle data rates up to 25-30 MB/s.&quot;[/i]

what is AFAIK

could each of u list the programs u use and what u use it for as a full editing tool kit? it would give a range of posibilities we all could benefit from and some may receive suggestions worth exploring.

Thank you in advance

 

[Bratac]

>> No one commented on my win2kServerPro if it can be used as win2kpro in custom mode install anyone know?

One of my friends did an install of Win2kServer on his homehorse (vs. workhorse . He told me that the main difference between the Server and the Pro versions seemed to be the much larger amount of services the Server version had activated. In order to make the speed of the system bearable, he had to turn many of them off, but it was very risky business - if you deactivate the wrong service, it won't boot anymore.

>> what is AFAIK

AFAIK = As Far As I Know

>> could each of u list the programs u use and what u use it for as a full editing tool kit? it would give a range of posibilities we all could benefit from and some may receive suggestions worth exploring.

Well, since I have neither the HDD speed nor space to do uncompressed capture (and considering that even 1GHz T-Bird cannot compress 640x480 into DivX realtime) I do my capturing with my AiW Multimedia Center 7.0 (7.1 doesn't work for me). I capture into MPEG1 or MPEG2 at about 6 Mbps - quite acceptable quality for TV picture, perfect for VHS.

Then I convert the resulting *.mp2 file with FlaskMPEG (Athlon enhanced version of course into DivX low-motion with very high bitrate, usually over 4000 kbps.

After this I use the wonderful VirtualDub to do the editing, filtering and converting the video into the final DivX form.
For audio I'm using CoolEdit96, mainly to do fade in/out and noise reduction (when recording from VHS tape).

BTW, does anyone know how to get rid of the chroma noise in captured video from TV? I know there's a &quot;chroma noise reduction&quot; filter for VirtualDub, but that does the reduction in delta only (i.e. the same pixels in successive frames are blended), but how to do it within one frame?

 

[NicColt]

First of all I stay away from FlaskMPEG - hey but that's my opinion. I had some large files like 2 and 3Gigs that it just cleaned wiped instantly.

I'm using MMC 7.1 with MPEG-2 at 2.00/Mbit/Sec. for a 1hr capture the size it 1.035 Gigs so I may increase the bit rate a little more.

I use Vegas Video as you know and once finished editing, I render my output as WMV at %100 quality, 1Mbps (bitrate) and Audio: 64 Kbps, 44 KHz, Stereo.

As I get more projects down I will slowly increase the bitrates. Also according to Activewin.com, microsoft has release Windows Media Encoder 8 so quality may get better still.

 

[TungFree]

MMMMMMMM great seeing this all in an organized fashion Bratac, and NicColt for your list comment on Bratac's list and all thr little setting ranges. What a smooth beginning it will make for new ATI AIW owners.

Keep them coming the rest of you fine contributors; shuch a treasure to read u all

NicColt when I get a window of time I will reread what the exact name of the Ulead vidoe editing program you said, some weeks ago, u tried. My recollection (a hazey one) is it was a different name not Media Studio Pro, so I wonder if you misread the name in a quick glance as Ulead has 2 and the one I think u meant has had negative comments like yours but Media Studio Prpo seems to be a favorite of at least 2 ppl I heard so far. If it was my error I will make a note of your considerations if your error, I will try to audition that program. Remember my memeory is flawed and I will look and reread this entire thread and edit it for my own neeeds to save as a refference.

 

[fobbman]

<< Anyone trying to do video on an IDE drive is really a novice. I mean we all have been there but its a true statement.

Dont even bother with IDE, trust me. I have three 9.1 - 10k rpm scsi drives in a volume set (nt sees them as one drive). Sure its expensive but how many of us can capture at 640X480 (or higher) with no frame loss? Not many. Also depends on your codec as well. But you can get a scsi card and an uw scsi drive for a few hundo now. Its WELL worth the money. try www.pricewatch.com you'll see.

I also have an 80 gig maxtor ide drive. Slow as hell but great for all these huge video philes, oops, files. Once the scsi is done capturing them dump em to IDE. So many people here say &quot;I have a p4/AMD 1.4 ghz and am still dropping frames!&quot; Well your hard drive is slowing you down. An ide drive uses about 50-80% of the CPU clock cycle. Scsi uses about 10%!! This combo creates an ideal situation for capturing live video! >>



Gonna have to disagree with the above statements. For the home-based video editing enthusiest the newer IDE hard drives (meaning, in the last couple of years) are a great buy. Drives supporting the DMA and UDMA transfer protocols have very little CPU utilization, with less than 10% being the norm. Of course, this only works if you have DMA support enabled in Windows. It is the prior incantation of IDE transfer protocols (PIO et al) that had the CPU utilization, and this is a relic that the SCSI fanatics still cling to.

There are a few notable differences between IDE and SCSI at this time. The first being the number of drives supported with SCSI having the large edge here. The second is quality, with SCSI drives having a higher quality standard then the run-of-the-mill IDE drive. The last is price, where SCSI has you pay for the advantages of the previous two mentioned.

If you really want to squash the data transfer rate bug in IDE drives then go RAID. You can get an inexpensive RAID card and a couple 30 gig drives for under $300 if you shop smartly, and your transfer speeds will be fantastic.

Don't get me wrong. SCSI has it's place, but unless you've got money out the wazzoo it is overkill for the home user.

 

[NicColt]

>so I wonder if you misread the name in a quick glance

I think your right, I may have mixed up between both.

Just to let you know, that I have finally finished my first project. and I have some good news depending on how you look at it and bad news for AVI_IO.

I recorded an hours worth of a Star Trek Voyager episode at MPEG-2 at 2.00/mbit, the file was 1.035 megs.

I loaded it into Vegas Video and within 20-30 minutes I had edited out the commercials.

I then rendered it as a WMV (windows media video) at %100 quality and 1MB video. It took 70 minutes to render. The outcome was fantastic, the total time is 46 minutes at 335Megs. The sound was in perfect sync, not one frame drop. and the quality superbbbbb. So 35 minutes to edit and 70 minutes to render.

Now for the good news, Microsoft has released it's Window Media encoder 8 - WOW
the bad news is that (for now) it requires an AVI file to encode.

The good news is, that if you download the Sonic Foundry 3rd party WME producer it contains a video capture utility that is very close to AVI_IO it has some very nice features and one of them is the Sound Sync. and of course DivX or MPEG4 compress captures. get it while it's hot and free. Free well that's the bad news for AVI_IO.