disclosing salary info to interviewers

[child of wonder]

yea i agree with this, but if a company has the job listed as paying at a starting salary of $60k, and they then inverview and drag you through all the process, then make you an offer of $40k, just because your previous job was $30k, that is a huge waste of time and is basically a bait and switch.

it wasn't that drastic of a pay difference with what happened to me, but it was the same principle. had i known they were going to offer me LOWER than what was listed in the job description, i would not have pursued it and wasted everyones time.

it seems this is what pontiflex is worried about, and has already happened once.

When a company has an open position, they already have a pay range in mind for that position, say somewhere between X1 and X2.

If they find a candidate they feel can fill that position but currently makes X1-n, they're going to offer (X1-n)+y < X1.

If you accept, they got a great bargain. If not, they continue looking.

It's the same as when one of decides "I want a new video card and my budget is $300." You get your heart set on an ATI 5850 and start searching. To your surprise, you find one for $250, far below your budget. You buy the video card and pat yourself on the back for finding a great deal.

This is why my advice would be to do as much research as you possibly can about the position you're applying for. What would someone with similar responsibilities and experience make elsewhere? Can you find anonymous salaries for this company at glassdoor.com? If moving, what is the cost of living difference?

When I accepted my current job, they asked about my current salary. My response was that while I currently make $XX,000 per year, I also know that the cost of living difference between where I live now and where I'd have to move to is 20% higher. I also know that the new job is not the same kind of job I was coming from (Sys Admin to VMware Consultant) so I did not feel my previous pay was an accurate reflection of what I should be making with the job I was applying for. I gave reasons why I felt my experience and skills, cost of living difference, and the fact I'd be moving meant the low range for this job should be my previous pay plus 20%.

They offered me exactly that, to which I then countered with my previous pay plus 30% and a moving bonus, again reiterating what I felt that was justified.

They accepted.

 

[Vette73]

Round it up in your favor.

If you make 30k put down 39k. etc...

 

[Koing]

yea i agree with this, but if a company has the job listed as paying at a starting salary of $60k, and they then inverview and drag you through all the process, then make you an offer of $40k, just because your previous job was $30k, that is a huge waste of time and is basically a bait and switch.

it wasn't that drastic of a pay difference with what happened to me, but it was the same principle. had i known they were going to offer me LOWER than what was listed in the job description, i would not have pursued it and wasted everyones time.

it seems this is what pontiflex is worried about, and has already happened once.

Thats f0cked up man purbeast01 and the OP.

In the UK I was told what I was going to be paid in my 1st job and 2nd job. They weren't listed so I was hopeful for the 2nd job paying more but it was a PAY CUT...still took the job as it was closer to home (7min cycle!) and I could train at lunchtimes and turned out to have sick career prospects. 3rd job I told them what I wanted, it was 75% more then my current pay. Not entirely sure if they asked me for my previous pay or not? But they asked me flat out in the 3rd interview what I wanted. I gave them my figure and I got exactly that. I was very happy. Still here 2yrs on

Pretty f0cking f0cked up of the companies low balling you because of your current pay. If they aren't prepared to pay f0ck'em. It shouldn't matter what your currently on, just what they are prepared to pay. If they aren't prepared to pay enough, forget them.

Good luck op

Koing

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Putting "Negotiable" for a salary history is as bad as leaving it blank. It shows your reading comprehension sucks. Simply put, there are some companies that require salary history as part of their application/recruiting process. It usually doesn't go beyond that, but pontifex is saying they require proof of salary as well. This would be rather unethical of the company, but they are using it as a filter. Nothing more, nothing less.

You're right -- I should have said put that in requested salary field, if asked. Leave salary history blank and screw them if they don't call you back.

 

[child of wonder]

You're right -- I should have said put that in requested salary field, if asked. Leave salary history blank and screw them if they don't call you back.

This.

If they are determined to low ball you, do you really want to work for a company like that anyway?

 

[djmartins]

Considering they know how much you're making with your current employer, they'll just laugh in your face.

They can laugh all they want, if they aren't offering a pay rate worth taking why would anyone work for them?
Desperation?
Mental illness?
Incompetence?
If you do take a job at such a low rate then it is only a matter of time before you quit unless you are such a train wreck of an employee that you can't get a better paying job.

Champagne that is as cheap as beer usually tastes like beer.....

 

[Alienwho]

I've always just filled those out as the salary I desire +5k instead of my current salary. I of course take the location, commute time, convenience, job type and benefits into consideration. If I was going to switch jobs with an equal commute time it would have to be ~10k more than I'm making now to make it worth it. If I got offered my exact same job with a 2 minute commute time and the exact same salary, I'd probably grab that. I've never had anybody actually ask me for a proof of paystub and if they did I would tell them to suck it.

My method has worked out for good and bad for me. I know for a fact it was too high a couple of times and got me filtered out. On the other hand it has also instantly landed me the job and made me feel like I could have probably held out for quite a bit more.

I agree with what SP33dDemon said above. Companies that make the hiring process a complete circus and make you jump through hoops suck.

 

[Terzo]

You're right -- I should have said put that in requested salary field, if asked. Leave salary history blank and screw them if they don't call you back.

This.

If they are determined to low ball you, do you really want to work for a company like that anyway?

Thirded. The way I see it, if they don't respect you enough to offer a fair salary they shouldn't expect you to respect their company. If a company lowballs you, I say accept it and continue looking for work. Once you come across a better offer, tell the company you're leaving for better pay. Then they have to make a competitive offer or lose the time and money spent hiring and training you. Though I'm sure they'll do their best to weed out such a candidate during the interview process.

 

[mcmilljb]

If you have a steady job, why not just give it to them and attach a note saying I will only work for this X amount? You can inflate X a little to give room to negotiate.

Also I do not see why lying would not work. Are they really going to verify the salary of every person they like? Do they really have time for that? If they ask for a paystub, just say you shred yours after you verify direct deposit, and they will have to wait until next month for the next one.

Also talk to the hiring manager. Just be upfront that you do not want to get lowballed. Tell person the salary you want so he/she can help make it happen.

If you do not want to work for the salary they offer or they eliminate you from consideration, you are at the same place. Now if you do not have a job, you may have to accept a position just to get by for a while, but that happens sometimes.

 

[purbeast0]

When a company has an open position, they already have a pay range in mind for that position, say somewhere between X1 and X2.

If they find a candidate they feel can fill that position but currently makes X1-n, they're going to offer (X1-n)+y < X1.

If you accept, they got a great bargain. If not, they continue looking.

It's the same as when one of decides "I want a new video card and my budget is $300." You get your heart set on an ATI 5850 and start searching. To your surprise, you find one for $250, far below your budget. You buy the video card and pat yourself on the back for finding a great deal.

This is why my advice would be to do as much research as you possibly can about the position you're applying for. What would someone with similar responsibilities and experience make elsewhere? Can you find anonymous salaries for this company at glassdoor.com? If moving, what is the cost of living difference?

When I accepted my current job, they asked about my current salary. My response was that while I currently make $XX,000 per year, I also know that the cost of living difference between where I live now and where I'd have to move to is 20% higher. I also know that the new job is not the same kind of job I was coming from (Sys Admin to VMware Consultant) so I did not feel my previous pay was an accurate reflection of what I should be making with the job I was applying for. I gave reasons why I felt my experience and skills, cost of living difference, and the fact I'd be moving meant the low range for this job should be my previous pay plus 20%.

They offered me exactly that, to which I then countered with my previous pay plus 30% and a moving bonus, again reiterating what I felt that was justified.

They accepted.

your example is not at all what i said.

a similar example would be if you put an offer out to newegg saying "I will pay you $300 for your ATI 5850" and they reply back with "We will take you up on that offer" and I then reply back saying "Well what did you sell your last one at?" and they replied "We sold it $250 " and then I replied back "Well I will either take it for $255 or you can go fuck off".

 

[dmw16]

OP, I think most people are right that you shouldn't disclose the info if you don't have to. However, I think at this point you need to. I'd just give them the info and let the chips fall as they may.

 

[child of wonder]

your example is not at all what i said.

a similar example would be if you put an offer out to newegg saying "I will pay you $300 for your ATI 5850" and they reply back with "We will take you up on that offer" and I then reply back saying "Well what did you sell your last one at?" and they replied "We sold it $250 " and then I replied back "Well I will either take it for $255 or you can go fuck off".

My apologies that quoting your post made it seem like I was offering a comparison or contrast to what you said. I was trying to offer my own experiences in addition to yours.

 

[spidey07]

Never, ever, ever give a number first. Nothing good can come from it, nothing. If you still feel like you must then inflate what you think you're worth by 20&#37;.

Of course if you've been giving a number first you'll never really know what you're truly worth because you've been underpaid all this time.

 

[MaxBurn]

My philosophy regarding providing salary history is that it is none of their business and is irrelevant. A couple of times in the distant past, I did provide it but I won't any longer. I think I was even asked one time and I said something to the effect "Sure, if you share your salary history with me first."

I like this answer because it keeps the discussion going but you have to modify it so you don't sound like a jerk and keep with a relevant discussion. What you want to ask is "what is the actual band they have to work with" (which they might give you) and follow that up with "what is the average salary of the employees that have this position" which IMO is very relevant, but they still likely won't give you that. Then finally "what salary are you offering me?"

I think then once you get them saying no a couple times they will realize that they are the ones holding up negotiation progress.

I would say to them that I will disclose my prior pay with proof but ONLY after I have a valid offer because I don't want it to influence our negotiations.

 

[her209]

They can laugh all they want, if they aren't offering a pay rate worth taking why would anyone work for them?

Because its still more than what you're getting paid now.

If you do take a job at such a low rate then it is only a matter of time before you quit unless you are such a train wreck of an employee that you can't get a better paying job.

Which is why I said earlier in the thread that you should use it as leverage to get a raise at your current company or move the other company and use that salary to get an even higher paying job. And the bonus is screwing both companies in the process.

 

[SP33Demon]

Never, ever, ever give a number first. Nothing good can come from it, nothing. If you still feel like you must then inflate what you think you're worth by 20%.

Of course if you've been giving a number first you'll never really know what you're truly worth because you've been underpaid all this time.

Well he could go to a website like salary.com and pull up averages for certain areas for that profession. Not much they can say to that.

 

[nonameo]

It's simple. Put on there what your salary was/is. If they offer you what you want, take it. If they don't, well then they can come up with a new offer if they want.

 

[Jeraden]

I got screwed before by the exact same thing. The only reason a company would ask you that is so that they can lowball you.

I got an entry level position as my first job, and realized it would take years of incremental salary increases to ever actually get to my true market value after I had some experience. Other people were hired to fill other openings doing the exact same thing as me, but made substantially more, cause they weren't stuck in the red-tape corporate increase ladder. So I interviewed for a new position elsewhere, things went well, disclosed my current salary - was offered my current salary + 10&#37;. They said that was their standard policy. Didn't matter that the market value of my job was at least my current salary + 50%. So said screw that and ended up finding a company that hired and paid me based on what I was actually worth, not what I was making previously.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Never, ever, ever give a number first. Nothing good can come from it, nothing. If you still feel like you must then inflate what you think you're worth by 20%.

Listen to Spidey.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Oh, and pontifex -- if they are actually threatening you by saying on the application that "We will verify your salary information," don't bother applying or at a minimum, have fun with it. Companies or people who treat prospective employees like crap during the hiring process aren't worth the effort.

Several years ago, I interviewed for a network engineer position with a very well known manufacturer of computer cables, peripherals, wireless products, etc. The first 3 or 4 rounds were a breeze. They finally flew in the IT manager and director from their HQ for the final interviews. They were condescending and rude and asked stupid questions and the director, who was very impressed with himself, always had to tell me what the "correct" answer was even though his questions made no sense and by his own definition, weren't solved by his answer. The IT manager mentioned some of the Active Directory issues they were having and I told him how to fix it and he argued with me over the solution! Keep in mind I designed an AD infrastructure for a Fortune 500 company with 40+ global sites, so I knew what I was talking about and had seen my solution work.

So, I was fed up -- I knew I wasn't going to get the job, so I decided to have fun with it. At the end, when they asked me for questions, I nailed them to the wall and completely embarrassed and humiliated them. One thing they were bragging about earlier in the interview was their customer satisfaction scores for their help desk -- it was 80&#37;. So when it got to my turn to ask questions, I actually said this:

"You mentioned that your help desk customer satisfaction score was 80%. Quite frankly, that is a terrible score and wouldn't be tolerated anywhere I've worked in the past. People would be fired or reassigned. How do you plan to remedy the situation?"

Their jaws hit the floor -- it was GREAT! I just kept nailing them with stuff like that. I figured if they didn't have respect for me, I didn't need to have it for them. I think at the end, I also recommended to the manager that they hire a consulting firm to help with their AD issue since they couldn't solve it on their own.

The funny part is that these guys were hiring these positions because the previous people they hired were an absolute disaster. So yeah, these guys REALLY had the right to act like they knew how to pick employees.

 

[CRXican]

here's what I've been putting in my cover letters for a couple of the jobs that ask for salary info:

Per your request, an acceptable salary range for this position, based on the description and my salary history, is $33,000 - $45,000. My requirement is flexible and negotiable depending on such factors as additional benefits, faster salary reviews and increased advancement opportunities.

 

[Terzo]

Oh, and pontifex -- if they are actually threatening you by saying on the application that "We will verify your salary information," don't bother applying or at a minimum, have fun with it. Companies or people who treat prospective employees like crap during the hiring process aren't worth the effort.

Several years ago, I interviewed for a network engineer position with a very well known manufacturer of computer cables, peripherals, wireless products, etc. The first 3 or 4 rounds were a breeze. They finally flew in the IT manager and director from their HQ for the final interviews. They were condescending and rude and asked stupid questions and the director, who was very impressed with himself, always had to tell me what the "correct" answer was even though his questions made no sense and by his own definition, weren't solved by his answer.

So, I was fed up -- I knew I wasn't going to get the job, so I decided to have fun with it. At the end, when they asked me for questions, I nailed them to the wall and completely embarrasses and humiliated them. One thing they were bragging about earlier in the interview was their customer satisfaction scores for their help desk -- it was 80%. So when it got to my turn to ask questions, I actually said this:

"You mentioned that your help desk customer satisfaction score was 80%. Quite frankly, that is a terrible score and wouldn't be tolerated anywhere I've worked in the past. How do you plan to remedy the situation?"

Their jaws hit the floor -- it was GREAT! I just kept nailing them with stuff like that. I figured if they didn't have respect for me, I didn't need to have it for them.

I was at a round 2 interview where the tone changed so much from the first, and I was sorely tempted to do the same as you. However, I held my tongue since I was hoping it might go somewhere (didn't) and I didn't want to burn any bridges. I remember I called my father afterwards and bitched for a good 5 minutes after the fact though.

 

[thepd7]

The salary range is listed in the ad. the problem i have is that all of my previous salary's have been lower than that. I'm not asking for more than what they are offering in the range listed.

I was recently offered a job for $60k and then the company found out what I was being paid now and is now lowballing me at $40k and probably going to go lower. so you can see where i am coming from with this.

The application states on the most recent job, that they would need proof of the salary if hired, so I can't lie on the form.

i'll just fill it out and watch myself get lowballed again.

Lie. They can't legally ask your old job and you are more than welcome to refuse to provide any proof.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I was at a round 2 interview where the tone changed so much from the first, and I was sorely tempted to do the same as you. However, I held my tongue since I was hoping it might go somewhere (didn't) and I didn't want to burn any bridges. I remember I called my father afterwards and bitched for a good 5 minutes after the fact though.

Well in my case, I had a job and was just looking at options, so I was under no pressure to actually land the job. I normally wouldn't have been that rude in return, but they really set me off with their questions ("Which ONE would you hire if twins applied and they were EXACTLY the same in every respect?") and condescending answers. I mean, who the fuck did this guy think he was?

(the answer from Mr. Asshole Director, by the way, was "Both." Uh, no dumbshit, you explicitly said: Which ONE, meaning you had 1 job req)

To this day, I will NOT buy products from the aforementioned company even though they are huge and make tons of PC products. I figured if they're that incompetent in their IT department and treat people like that, they can find business elsewhere.

One funny part that I forgot was when I got to the facility, I talked to the HR rep first. She mentioned "Uh, yeah, we make these power strips for Stanley and they just rebrand them." So when I got to the interview with the IT director and manager and they asked me what I knew about the company and what surprised me, I said "Yeah, I learned that you guys actually make Stanley branded power strips." The IT director ARGUED with me for five minutes about that, even though I apologized and said "Oh, I'm sorry, that is just what the HR lady and I discussed and she was the one who told me that." He even argued that she said that! That alone was probably was the last straw and that was within the first 10 minutes of talking to them.

 

[RaistlinZ]

If we weren't stuck at nearly 10&#37; unemployment rate I'd say you should tell them to suck it. But if you REALLY want to work for this company then see what offer they make you. If it's unacceptable, then just decline.

Their loss.